Yellows and Armor Penetration

[Fenixdown]

I recently got my Deathbringer's Will (after losing it to three ret pallies over the past two months, but that is another story) and exceeded 780 armor penetration. I know the first thing to do is to change all my red slots from agility to armor penetration, which I have done.

However, that being said, I am not certain what to do about yellow sockets. I was previously using Deadly Ametrine. Do I keep these to at least have some agility bonus, or switch them to an armor penetration split gem? Also, if I do switch to an armor penetration split gem, what is the best one to use? I would assume ArP and crit.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Phosey]

It depends on some factors. How close are you to being Armp. Capped with DBW and all your reds being Fractured Cardinal?

[Mordigrim]

When using DBW as opposed to an armor pen proc trinket, you ignore all socket colors and just stack armor pen until you cap it. The only reason not to do that is when using a proc trinket, like Banner of Victory, in which case you would stack it so that you're capped when it procs.

Once you're armor pen capped, then go back to using agility and agil/crit.

[Organoth]

When gemming ArP all Socket Bonuses are ignored completly. You gem all +20 ArP gems and 1 Nightmare Tear for you meta until you hit the 1400 ArP hard cap. The only hybrid ArP gem is ArP/Stam which is uselss, there is no ArP/Crit gem in game. Once you reach the ArP hard cap you can start regemming Agi.

That said you will lose all of that ArP in about 3-4 weeks when the Cata pre-patch goes lives so it may not be worth it. Totally regem just to have to do it all over again in less then a month. ArP gems won't even turn into anything usefull and will become +20 Crit gems which you won't use.

[Enderfish]

Does this even matter? Isn't ArP being taken out in 4.0? Which I'm guessing will be released on this Tuesday or the following one? I admit I don't know for sure what those ArP gems will turn into, but I think it might be haste.

[Mordigrim]

That said you will lose all of that ArP in about 3-4 weeks when the Cata pre-patch goes lives so it may not be worth it. Totally regem just to have to do it all over again in less then a month. ArP gems won't even turn into anything usefull and will become +20 Crit gems which you won't use.

This should be what you really think about at this point. If you do regem full armor pen you'll just just be regemming full agility and agil/crit in a few weeks anyway.

[Deleted]

Assuming you're going for max dps I think you'l find that ArP in general isn't your best bet as a ret paladin. This is due to the fact that as your well aware most of your damage is done via spells, which is increased by strength.

If you take a ret paladins Best in Slot list for example; http://retributionpaladins.com/retri...slot-bis-gear/

You'll find that death's choice is infact a better dps upgrade than DBW, the only time I'd advise you use an ArP based trinket is if you can get your hands on STS due to the massive AP proc.

Take for example one my server's best ret paladins - http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...am&cn=Faesroll

265 ArP which is solely from gear, strength is the way to go.

OT: As a rogue however, if you have around 60-70% ArP without gems, then just put fractured into all your sockets, not including the nightmare tear ofc.

[Thundercougr]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...this-first!%29

Notice how it says READ THIS FIRST?

---------- Post added 2010-09-19 at 06:36 PM ----------

Assuming you're going for max dps I think you'l find that ArP in general isn't your best bet as a ret paladin. This is due to the fact that as your well aware most of your damage is done via spells, which is increased by strength.

If you take a ret paladins Best in Slot list for example; http://retributionpaladins.com/retri...slot-bis-gear/


You'll find that death's choice is infact a better dps upgrade than DBW, the only time I'd advise you use an ArP based trinket is if you can get your hands on STS due to the massive AP proc.

Take for example one my server's best ret paladins - http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...am&cn=Faesroll

265 ArP which is solely from gear, strength is the way to go.

OT: As a rogue however, if you have around 60-70% ArP without gems, then just put fractured into all your sockets, not including the nightmare tear ofc.

all of that information is irrelevant, as this is the HUNTER forum, so the op is asking about his HUNTER obviously. Who the hell care about your server's "best" ret paladin or rogues?

[Organoth]

This should be what you really think about at this point. If you do regem full armor pen you'll just just be regemming full agility and agil/crit in a few weeks anyway.

Well we will be gemming/gearing for Haste again, at least until our 1.5sec Steady Shot soft cap. Even with ArP gear getting converted to either Haste or Crit I am still short of that 1.5sec cast time even with a few Agi/Haste gems on the PTR. One of the best changes is Hit gems being changed from Yellow to Blue. This allows you to gem for Hit while picking up more socket bonuses and not having to give up Agi/Crit or Agi/Haste gems in the process. We got a little bit more hit put on our gear, I went from 5% hit from gear alone to 5.63% hit on the PTR but we lost our +Hit talent ofcourse. I already had +hit on my glove and boot enchants so with gemming I'm at 8.13% hit but reforging can take care of that.

They really need to take away our GCD like they have been takling about for a while now or reduce it to like 1sec instead of 1.5sec so we can get more use out of Haste. We won't be able to just spam insta-cast shots due to the new Focus system but since Haste affect our Focus regen it would make it useful beyond like 300 Haste or what ever it is to reach that 1.5sec Steady Shot cast time. I've not seen the numbers at 85 ofcourse so maybe we'll need a suficient amount of Haste at that lvl to maintain that 1.5sec cast time that it won't be so easy to hit that soft cap.

[Thundercougr]

Well we will be gemming/gearing for Haste again, at least until our 1.5sec Steady Shot soft cap. Even with ArP gear getting converted to either Haste or Crit I am still short of that 1.5sec cast time even with a few Agi/Haste gems on the PTR. One of the best changes is Hit gems being changed from Yellow to Blue. This allows you to gem for Hit while picking up more socket bonuses and not having to give up Agi/Crit or Agi/Haste gems in the process. We got a little bit more hit put on our gear, I went from 5% hit from gear alone to 5.63% hit on the PTR but we lost our +Hit talent ofcourse. I already had +hit on my glove and boot enchants so with gemming I'm at 8.13% hit but reforging can take care of that.

They really need to take away our GCD like they have been takling about for a while now or reduce it to like 1sec instead of 1.5sec so we can get more use out of Haste. We won't be able to just spam insta-cast shots due to the new Focus system but since Haste affect our Focus regen it would make it useful beyond like 300 Haste or what ever it is to reach that 1.5sec Steady Shot cast time. I've not seen the numbers at 85 ofcourse so maybe we'll need a suficient amount of Haste at that lvl to maintain that 1.5sec cast time that it won't be so easy to hit that soft cap.

*sigh* Do you even bother to know what the hell you're talking about before you post? Haste has nothing to do with Steady Shot anymore, as Haste affects resource regen and not attack speed. As for the GCD, it currently IS 1.0 on PTR/Beta.

[Manas]

*sigh* Do you even bother to know what the hell you're talking about before you post? Haste has nothing to do with Steady Shot anymore, as Haste affects resource regen and not attack speed. As for the GCD, it currently IS 1.0 on PTR/Beta.

*SIGH* Do you even bother to know what the hell YOU are talking about before you post?
On the beta, haste still affect attack speed, and it also reduces the cast time of Steady Shot. Get your facts straight before you post stuff like this and spread false information.

[Fenixdown]

Thank you all for the replies.

@ buttspawn : I did read that FAQ. It did not sufficiently answer my question. Thank you, however, for being exactly what I would expect someone with the name "buttspawn" to be.

@ everyone else : I did take into consideration that 4.0 is approaching. I did not realize that the hard cap for armor penetration is 1400, thus why I made this post.

With that now known, even changing my current five yellow slots would only place me at 1,149. I will leave them as is then and simply see what will need to be done in regards to my red slots in the patch in a few weeks.

Thank you to all that contributed useful information.

[Thundercougr]

Thank you all for the replies.

@ buttspawn : I did read that FAQ. It did not sufficiently answer my question. Thank you, however, for being exactly what I would expect someone with the name "buttspawn" to be.

@ everyone else : I did take into consideration that 4.0 is approaching. I did not realize that the hard cap for armor penetration is 1400, thus why I made this post.

With that now known, even changing my current five yellow slots would only place me at 1,149. I will leave them as is then and simply see what will need to be done in regards to my red slots in the patch in a few weeks.

Thank you to all that contributed useful information.

Oh really? That's funny because it EXACTLY ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.


You're asking about gems and it specifically tells you about gems. How the hell does that not answer your question? You must be one of those "intelligent" people that voted for Obama and you're in favor of health care reform, right? QUIT ASKING FUCKING QUESTIONS IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM ANSWERED.

Gear/Gems and Enchants
Note that it's very iffy if you should ever use anything besides all red gems and 1 Nightmare Tear in your gear. Nightmare Tear will give you the meta requirements itself, the only reason to ever use non-red gems is to try to achieve a socket bonus. The value of that really depends on the bonus itself.

Red Gems
Delicate Cardinal Ruby: +20 agi
Fractured Cardinal Ruby: +20 Armor Pen

Orange Gems *
Glinting Flawless Ametrine: +10 agi +10 hit
Deadly Flawless Ametrine: +10 agi +10 crit

* The only reason to ever use an orange in a yellow socket is when you get at least 6 bonus agility for each yellow socket in the item. For instance, if an item is 1 yellow socket and +5 agility, then use one of these. If it is a red and a yellow socket, and +5 agility, use a red gem and one of these. If it is 2 yellow sockets and 8 agility, generally you only want to use reds; spreadsheet for your gear, however!

[Organoth]

*SIGH* Do you even bother to know what the hell YOU are talking about before you post?
On the beta, haste still affect attack speed, and it also reduces the cast time of Steady Shot. Get your facts straight before you post stuff like this and spread false information.

*Deleted*

To: Buttspawn: I know for a fact that Haste affects Steady Shot because it lowered my cast time by using a couple Agi/Haste gems. Haste also affects are Focus regen so we will be using it in Cata. Not as much as Crit but Agi/Haste gems won't be totally ignored.

Edit: New PTR build is done downloading and GCD is down to 1sec. If it was like that in the first build I just didn't notice it.

[Fenixdown]

When gemming ArP all Socket Bonuses are ignored completly. You gem all +20 ArP gems and 1 Nightmare Tear for you meta until you hit the 1400 ArP hard cap. The only hybrid ArP gem is ArP/Stam which is uselss, there is no ArP/Crit gem in game. Once you reach the ArP hard cap you can start regemming Agi.

That said you will lose all of that ArP in about 3-4 weeks when the Cata pre-patch goes lives so it may not be worth it. Totally regem just to have to do it all over again in less then a month. ArP gems won't even turn into anything usefull and will become +20 Crit gems which you won't use.

Actually, THIS answered my question perfectly.

Again, thank you buttspawn, for being exactly what I would expect someone with the name "buttspawn" to be.

[Thundercougr]

Actually, THIS answered my question perfectly.

Again, thank you buttspawn, for being exactly what I would expect someone with the name "buttspawn" to be.

Which is exactly what the sticky says. I know your type though. Maybe one day you'll grow up and be able to admit your wrong. With a signature like that, you sure as hell can't talk about someone's name. That signature could only scream "virgin" louder if you wrote it in caps beside it.

[2about]

ArP will become Haste.

[Thundercougr]

ArP will become Haste.

ArP gems become Crit. ArP on gear becomes crit as well I believe, unless the item already has Crit in which case it does become Haste.

[bigjenk]

Actually, THIS answered my question perfectly.

Again, thank you buttspawn, for being exactly what I would expect someone with the name "buttspawn" to be.

Why don't you spend 5 mins simming it on femaledwarf or rawr instead of trying to get others to do your work for you. Ask stupid questions get stupid answers. my opinion would be to save the money unless you are pushing for a late h lk right now on your hunter and just stay agi and agi crit as all you will be doing is regemming for like 3-5 weeks of icc runs max at this point.

[Novarn]

your arp is going to be gone in 1-3 weeks so i dont think its acutally worth changing.