Why do people forget heroics were hard back in the day?

[Lucapa]

Loken as paladin was not easy (pre beacon).

[Lylyth]

Heroic: Halls of Lightning
Defeat the Halls of Lightning bosses on Heroic Difficulty.
05-02-2009

2nd and 3rd armory links don't work.

Anyway, the point is that on the one character that could be viewed you hadn't completed Halls of Lightning until long after people in Ulduar gear far out geared it.


Heroic: Halls of Stone
Defeat the boss encounters in the Halls of Stone on Heroic Difficulty.
04-25-2009

Once again, long after Ulduar had been out, thus easily out gearing it.


Heroic: Azjol-Nerub
Defeat the Azjol-Nerub bosses on Heroic Difficulty.
04-25-2009


Heroic: Utgarde Keep
Defeat the Utgarde Keep bosses on Heroic Difficulty.
04-25-2009

Now I'll be the first to say that its easily possible that you had completed these heroics on a different character before everyone was wearing full Ulduar gear but the one armory link that works says otherwise.

LoL you're so wrong.

Ulduar was released on 4/14/2009. This guy completed most of these heroics the week after Ulduar dropped. I highly doubt he was "wearing full Ulduar gear" at that point.

Learn2Calender.

I'm not agreeing with him. He's dead wrong. Those heroics were QUITE difficult when we had all just dinged 80. You, however, look ignorant for not doing more research into what kind of gear he was probably in. I wouldn't care if you didn't sound so high and mighty in your post.

When you linked those dates I knew something was up. I got "of the Nightfall" on 4/13/2009, which I knew to be the night before Ulduar dropped because we had failed our Undying run that week, thus negating our last chance to get the Proto-Drake mount for Glory of the Raider. I remember being so pissed that we had the most tactically difficult cheeve needed, but got cock-blocked by the most luck-oriented one.

[Khallynos]

They weren't "hard" at the start of TBC either. Using minimal CC and having a semi-competent healer and/or tank does not make something hard.

Maybe if everything clicked. If you had a pat group aggro, your ship was as good as sunk. BC heroics at release were not for the weak of heart, even some of the regs were tricky in greens.

OT: I think the issue with WotLK heroics is that, as mentioned before, much of the content didn't scale well with gear. Not to say that content should be gear independent, but the way we faceroll heroics now is just disrespectful to them. Anyone who says they were never hard must either be in the highest of high end guilds or completely full of it. CC may have not been needed on every pull, but there were mechanics back then that would take out a tank in one hit that my rogue laughs at nowadays. I just think its funny to see people who stand in Ick's poison nova because they think nothing in a heroic will kill them -.- either that or they're just blind.

[Vengeful_D]

People who think WotLK Heroics were cakewalk easy stepping into them the first time with everyone in lvl appropriate gear are delusional. Sure, you can fluff your epeen and say "I never had a problem, they so easy" but you aren't fooling anyone. I remember scores of threads on on the official forums asking for help tanking Heroic Loken. I remember myself being afraid of the Jedoga & General Bjarngrim achievements. I remember people not making it out of Herald Volazj's Insanity alive. Were they major cockblocks? Of course not. Were they faceroll? NO!

If you claim otherwise you either have a pisspoor memory, you're lying, or you weren't there.

[Nexxia]

I would put them at a lower difficulty level in starter gear and no ringer dps. I have no memories of hours in a heroic as i do some in BC.

People who think WotLK Heroics were cakewalk easy stepping into them the first time with everyone in lvl appropriate gear are delusional. Sure, you can fluff your epeen and say "I never had a problem, they so easy" but you aren't fooling anyone. I remember scores of threads on on the official forums asking for help tanking Heroic Loken. I remember myself being afraid of the Jedoga & General Bjarngrim achievements. I remember people not making it out of Herald Volazj's Insanity alive. Were they major cockblocks? Of course not. Were they faceroll? NO!

If you claim otherwise you either have a pisspoor memory, you're lying, or you weren't there.

[Vengeful_D]

I would put them at a lower difficulty level in starter gear and no ringer dps. I have no memories of hours in a heroic as i do some in BC.

I'll repeat something from the post you quoted...

Were they major cockblocks? Of course not. Were they faceroll? NO!

And who in their right mind is asking to spend hours in a heroic 5 man? What kind of massochist are you?

[Fahrenheit]

This is just my opinion but Im sure some people will have a royal shit fit reading this.

Just for the record. I'm one of the few people that thinks even early TBC heroics weren't hard. Likewise, WotLK heroics were a joke from the get go. That being said, I don't want that to change, fast heroics are better. I just don't get the reasoning behind the folks who salavate at the mouth for 1-2 hour long heroics. F that man, I was there during classic when UBRS and Strath and Scholo took a solid 2 hours even with a bomb ass group. BRD? That shit was an all day affair, no thank you. The shorter the better.

[Rhosis]

I hit lvl 80 on my paladin in the first week after lich king came out, i was quite a well geared tank at 23k hp. Things like UK and Nexus where easy. UP, HoS,HoL,OK and AN where an absolute pain. Try to remember that back then we weren't hitting the LFG and getting 3-4 ilvl264 players we were all sitting at Ilvl 187 or less. Most HCs took 1hour plus. I remember just before Ulduar came out i answered a call for a tank, the rest of the group where all in Nax25 gear and we still took 45min to do, I was amazed to see 4k dps on trash, these days if you do less than 6k on a boss you've just dinged and hour ago.These days the tanks are doing more DPS than the whole combined DPS of pre 4.1. The problems with HCs was that even after ppl had out gear them they still had to do them for the badges, this is what killed HCs and made them "FACEROLL". I hope that in Cata every time a new tier of raids comes out we get new HCs, like we got Dead Mines and SFK, I would like to see say Heroic Blackfathom Deeps and Gnomer. This way the HCs will scale with the gear lvl and remain challeging.

[pickley]

Wrath Dungeons never used to be hard, first day of level 80 I jumped into a H HoL group, destroyed the boss, even got the Under 2 min achievement.
This was like late november 2008.

[Pozz]

Bottomline: Classic and TBC 5 mans were overall harder. They were also less visited.

But is this true because of WotLK dungeons being better ? Or because you can farm T10 in 1 day by chain running them ?

The speed in which you can reap rewards from heroics increased big time. Personally I've experienced people disliking WotLK heroics big time, but doing them often because it's "free epics".

[caninepawprints]

I hit level 80 on December 4, 2008 on my Mage. I wasn't level 80 until December 29, 2008 on my Druid (she was my third or fourth 80 by that time). I remember going into the heroics in ilvl 187 gear from normal dungeons and nearly being two shot. The Old Kingdom was a pain to clear because I got one shot if the casters in the first few pulls weren't silenced, stunned, or CC'd. The last boss made us sweat because we weren't sure we could survive long enough for the rest of the party to join us in killing the copies of ourselves. I remember one of our Resto Druids had to remove his gear just so we could kill him during that phase of the fight. Another time, we had him heal in Balance spec so when the phase came, the game would have his shadow casting Moonfire and Wrath instead of Rejuvenation and Healing Touch. Since then, Blizzard has nerfed that encounter a LOT! Most tanks had somewhere between 22k and 25k HP. If we saw a tank with more than 28k HP, we were really impressed.

Occulus was a dungeon NO ONE stepped foot in. That first time our guild ran that place December 29, 2008, we spent SIX HOURS trying to figure out a strategy that worked for us on the final boss. Nobody ran Occulus for quite some time. It went through nerf after nerf. After the last nerf, players would still leave if they found it come up as their random heroic dungeon, so Blizzard added in an incentive with the bag from the loot chest at the end with a chance at the Blue Drake.

By the time January rolled around, the heroics were easy to clear. Everyone had become familiar with them and most people were out gearing them thanks to the ease of clearing Naxxramas.

Anyone who said the heroics weren't hard that first month either wasn't level 80 on any character at that time or ran with people who had been on Wrath's beta and knew the heroics very well.

[Xexer]

I find it odd that people link their dates and say that Wrath heroics were ever hard. Here's my contribution to that:

Wrath Release: November 13, 2008

11-17-2008
Heroic: HoS
King's Bane (and Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle)
Heroic: VH

11-18-2008
Heroic: Gundrak
Defenseless (Heroic: VH with 100% integrity)
Heroic: Azjol-Nerub
Heroic: Ahn'kahet
Lightning Struck (Heroic General Bjarngrim w/ temp elec charge)
Timely Death and Heroic: HoL
My Girl Loves to Skadi All the Time, On the Rocks, Heroic Utgarde Keep

11-19-2008
What the Eck?
Heroic: The Oculus
Heroic: Nexus, Intense Cold
Heroic: CoS

11-21-2008
Heroic: Drak'Tharon
Shatter Resistant (Volkhan HoL)

11-23-2008
The Culling of Time (Infinite Corruptor H:CoS)
The Incredible Hulk

12-5-2008
Respect Your Elders
Volunteer Work
Volazj's Quick Demise
Watch Him Die
Hadronox Denied


How was Wrath hard....ever?



I figure that before people pick specific parts out of this and go "lol that isnt hard", I didn't edit the list. That's just what I had on those dates for heroics. For the sake of listing, I also had the 10 and 25 man Full clear Naxx achievements on the 23rd and 24th, and 2 drake sarth on the 7th of December.

[aGit]

jeesus Fing F, i can't believe this thread exists. Wotlk had nothing to offer as far as difficulty goes on 5man heroics. Those who claim sidesteping pound or runing up and down the stairs on loken was hard are terribad.

First hard'ish thing in wotlk 5mans was HoR hc, and even that only for the first time when the toughness of the waves came unexpected.

[Endler89]

Not a single heroic required a "special setup".

H MGT prenerf required 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps. The special setup came in you could only take one melee and all the dps had to have some form of cc. Most groups went 2 mages one lock. Dps, shamans, warriors, priests and paladins were not taken. So yeah the special setup was only classes with viable cc and no more than one melee.

[pieki]

NO THAY WHERNT

i started doing heroics in a mix of quest and blue 5m normal drops, thinking a tank where "imba" if he had 22k hp (not druids) and sorry to burst youre bubble but the fact that "if it arnt a 1 shoot its fine" thanks to stupid mana regen and lame aoe healing made me stop carrying water or mana pots after 4 days on lev 80

easy expansion IS and WHERE easy (and no 2-3 propper hard fights dont make the expansion hard)

[usiris]

heroics were not hard in BC, yes they were all challenging at the appropriate gear level,
but after a few tiers they were faceroll.

and yeah people had to get out off lokens nova 3.0, depending on the healing class used
a holy paladin could not heal that fight in quest \ dungeon gear mixtures.

the only heroics that were partially challenging was the pvp gimmick fight in hMGT, and Arcatraz,
but honestly it only became hard if people were idiots
(not standing on tanks to split meteor damage)

as far as the "not standing in lasers doesn't count as a hard fight"
everything BC was that way, if people did their jobs, you really wouldn't have to worry about wiping.

and if people were being stupid \ silly, you could even wipe in h slave pens (not killing mc add - stingray that fears and ppl pulling adds because of that)

but BC heroics were hard? rofl never! except arcatraz at early gear levels...that was a nightmare.
SH was challenging, but even at early gear levels it wasn't hard, the timed run made people have silly mistakes trying to rush it is all.

heroic durn and BM say hello

[Rezhial]

Personally speaking, or typing I guess, I never remember having a problem in a single heroic in wrath, not one. I clearly remember clearing every single one that existed one week after launch.

I did like them a lot more back then, but saying HoS was hard and you couldn't heal through Loken's nova is pure silliness.

[Pozz]

H MGT prenerf required 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps. The special setup came in you could only take one melee and all the dps had to have some form of cc. Most groups went 2 mages one lock. Dps, shamans, warriors, priests and paladins were not taken. So yeah the special setup was only classes with viable cc and no more than one melee.

I played both priest and shaman dps'ers, were often taken and easily finished it anyways. Heroic MGT never required a specific setup, just brain function of the involved people.

As an elemental shaman I could cc up to 4 targets at a time, with a proper pull priests could cc quite well for the first 10 secs and otherwise take a caster out with MC who did the same if not more damage than he could do himself. As previously said, there might be a problem with 3dps warriors, else there was possibilities =)

[Beress]

You don't have to guess how much HP your tank had. Just pull up anyones old "pre naxx gear list" and use the profile tool on WoWhead.

For example, my imaginary paladin who has cleared every single pre-naxx heroic and has all of the best gear you can get, everything with BiS enchantment, epic gems, and LW for the stam bracer lining has 24944 unbuffed HP. Keeping in mind that is AFTER clearing these heroics, to get the heroic gear (pre-naxx list). So certainly there were not non-druid tanks facerolling heroics with > 30K health. The only way they would even come close to that number, is if they had already cleared the heroics and had the 200 blue/epic gear, +epic gems and enchants.


Ground Tremor Helm 200 Head Moorabi (H) 143
Chained Military Gorget 200 Neck Vendors in Dalaran 94
Iron Dwarf Smith Pauldrons 200 Shoulder General Bjarngrim (H) 103
Cloak of the Enemy 200 Back The Nexus (H) 63
Breastplate of the Solemn Council 200 Chest Cielstrasza 131
Bracers of the Herald 200 Wrist Herald Volazj (H) 154
Fireproven Gauntlets 200 Hands Archmage Alvareaux 145
Waistguard of Living Iron 200 Waist Vendors in Dalaran 129
Bolstered Legplates 200 Legs Cyanigosa (H) 191
Sabatons of Draconic Vigor 200 Feet Cielstrasza 103
Titanium Earthguard Ring 200 Finger Titanium Earthguard Ring 98
Woeful Band 200 Finger Maiden of Grief (H) 63
Seal of the Pantheon 187 Trinket Loken (N) 58
Essence of Gossamer 200 Trinket Hadronox (H) 63
Red Sword of Courage 200 One-Hand King Ymiron (H) 187
Royal Crest of Lordaeron 200 Shield Dark Runed Chest (H) 182