Whatever happened to AoE stun like Eadric?

[Vuljatar]

So yeah, we're the only class without a baseline offensive/CC effect, save Turn Evil and HoJ.

Yup. You're the only class without a baseline offensive CC--except the best baseline offensive CC in the game.

[archangelz]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a stun. If I remember correctly, it broke on damage kinda like blind.

Yup. You're the only class without a baseline offensive CC--except the best baseline offensive CC in the game.

The best? I didn't know the best CC in the game had a 1 minute CD. Yeah, super awesome man.

[Rowsdower]

A ret talent that turned Hammer of Justice into AOE Hammer of Justice would have been nice to see. Also I hate Holy Wrath, get rid of the stun part and make it more than a bland AOE (hi consecration) or make it stun everything, this "dragonkin, undead, elementals" thing is kinda arbitrary.

Despite what non-paladins think, "OMG BUBBLE OP!!!!" does not compensate for lacking any other significant cooldown. Plus we have to sacrifice by locking down our only offensive cooldown in order to use it. If mages couldn't use any more cooldowns while they had Hypothermia debuff, they might QQ a bit too.

This "affects virtually every enemy relevant to the expansion" is not very arbitrary.

[Ciah]

Yup. You're the only class without a baseline offensive CC--except the best baseline offensive CC in the game.

Which anyone with half a brain saves their trinket for, seeing as we have nothing else worth using it on and it has a fairly long cooldown when compared to other CCs.

[Deleted]

Do you Paladin haters read blue posts, AT ALL?

They removed the ability to cleanse for prots/rets, reduced the cooldown of Divine Shield by 2 secs, nerfed our offensive abilites along with our passive heal (we have to chose between a semi-poweful heal or a damage finisher as our 3 point HP skill) and there's no longer a glyph for 20% damage reduction on HoS.

WE pretty much deserved this skill - and it was supposed to go to Prot (they were supposed to get it to 0 sec cast time via talents) and Holys (they were supposed to get a talent to increase the crit chance), and not for Rets at all.

So Paladins are left as the only class without a new unique ability, unlike every other class in WoW. Thats the reason I cancelled my cataclysm pre order and WoW sub.

[Ronark]

Well you are welcome to roll one of those classes if you wish to have AoE CC's. Plus don't Ret Pallys still have Repentance... sure its not baseline nor is it AoE... but making it sound like you have none isn't really truth.

And just in case... to my knowledge at least 1 of the 5 (not sure about frost nova) have to be speced into just like Repentance. If everyone brought everything to the table, what fun would the game be?

The only one that has to be spec'd for is Hand of Gul'dan, all the others are baseline.

Howl & Scream qualify as "hard CC" due to them being fears. Frost Nova & Frost Trap are merely AoE Snares, and do not debilitate players from using abilities altogether.. could be treated as "soft CC" or just as snares. I'd say they don't compare equally to stun effects in strength.

I could agree, yes- It is a form of CC< albit a less one (just like HoJ, which I included at the beginning).

This isn't constructive feedback, this is a ridiculous argument. And as I said, an interrupt for your rets and prots seems reasonable, but not aoe cc.
Note: just because you cannot counter my argument, doesn't mean you have to call me a troll, because I'm not.

You arent giving any argument at all- you're arguments so far have been "You know what I mean" and "Your post is ridiculous". Please try to back up your reasonings with appropriate counterarguments, otherwise your posts may seem to come off as a "troll" or "spam".

[Astalnar]

And as I said, you can't compare it to classes who have the defensive cooldowns that paladins have. Do you have any feeling of what balanced means? No, probably not. You are talking about cloth classes. Your argument is ridiculous.

Please enlighten me what defensive cooldowns do retribution paladins have?
we go bubble and they nerfed even that.

Ghostcrawler realy lives up to his words (TO THE GROUND)

[4KhazModan]

What other school would you use? I could understand if some of your moves were just melee moves like a warrior but it wouldn't make sense for a paladin to cast any other class of magic other than holy.

That is his point. As pallies, we are inherently susceptible to these types of abilities. And we could use something to make up for it.

[cooespooh]

Do you Paladin haters read blue posts, AT ALL?

They removed the ability to cleanse for prots/rets, reduced the cooldown of Divine Shield by 2 secs, nerfed our offensive abilites and there's no longer a glyph for 20% damage reduction on HoS.

WE pretty much deserved this skill - and it was supposed to go to Prot (they were supposed to get it to 0 sec cast time via talents) and Holys (they were supposed to get a talent to increase the crit chance), and not for Rets at all.

So Paladins are left as the only class without a new unique ability, unlike every other class in WoW. Thats the reason I cancelled my cataclysm pre order and WoW sub.

Left without a new unique ability? Paladins are getting plenty of new and unique things. You get a summonable guardian that does something different based on what talent spec you are. That's pretty wicked if you ask me. Not to mention the new resource system, the addition of fun abilities for healing paladins (so they don't choose between two spells and just spam those for every given situation, PVE or PVP) not to mention a complete overhaul of the damage mechanics of the Retribution tree... a LOT of stuff is changing for paladins, and paladins remain extremely unique.

[Firemist]

That is his point. As pallies, we are inherently susceptible to these types of abilities. And we could use something to make up for it.

Unless i don't understand how counter spell and kick work... but don't you have to be mid cast for them to take affect? So unless you are a holy pally in pvp or a similar situation when is prot/ret casting anything to get spell locked?

[Nairobi]

War Stomp says hi.
And FFS, get over the "omg plate" argument like it matters anymore.
Our plate is worthless against magic. That means everything from mages/spreists/locks (all of which have WAY more CC than pallies btw), to rog poisons, shaman lolburst, boomkin dots. Hell, even warriors and hunters negate it with ArP currently.
Yes, I know those classes lose armor pen next patch. But hey, we lose clease to get those dots off!

And calling repent or HoJ a CC (on par with anything listed above) is like calling LoH a heal. Sure a 6 sec stun is nasty; thats probably why it has a 1 minute cooldown. Lets compare our 1 minute cooldown 6 sec incapacitate TALENT that breaks on ANY damage versus fear.

I'm not one to QQ about pally CC or the lack thereof. But I'm sick of people QQing about us having too MUCH control for sure. Clearly you've either never played a paladin in any sort of pvp environment, or you got lolfacerolled by an SM/wrathful ret and ran to the forums about it. I'm not super stoked about losing blinding shield, but the logistics behind it weren't even that conducive to Ret. I mean it had a cast time and required a swap to sword and board...anyone that got hit by a ret hardcasting it probably deserved it.

[lunchbox2042]

Blinding shield would have obviously required a shield; therefore it would be useless to ret outside of making a shield equip macro. It was also supposed to have a 1.5-2 sec cooldown which would've been enough for any class to turn around or interrupt.

A 2 second AE stun is not as dangerous in PvP in Cataclysm especially considering the cast time and the fact that you can turn away from the pally to avoid it. If you were to get hit by this skill in pvp it would mean you are not very aware or are a keyboard turner.

There are other classes that have better abilities. Shadowfury isn't easily avoidable. Howl of Terror / Psychic Scream lasts longer than 2 seconds, is on a shorter cooldown, and allows you to deal some damage to them before it breaks.

Personally I'd rather have an AE daze effect like Piercing Howl as our biggest problem is keeping people in range.

[Ciah]

This "affects virtually every enemy relevant to the expansion" is not very arbitrary.

Doesn't affect Ymirjar, which always pissed me off on the Frost wing trash. Didn't do jack in Ulduar and half the fights of ToC, either.

[Ronark]

Unless i don't understand how counter spell and kick work... but don't you have to be mid cast for them to take affect? So unless you are a holy pally in pvp or a similar situation when is prot/ret casting anything to get spell locked?

Sort of- If it is an interrupt effect (like Rebuke) it would only affect casting spells. If it was a silence effect like Imp CS, it affects everything that is a spell (even pseudo spells like Judgement).

[Rowsdower]

Do you Paladin haters read blue posts, AT ALL?

So Paladins are left as the only class without a new unique ability, unlike every other class in WoW. Thats the reason I cancelled my cataclysm pre order and WoW sub.

Holy paladins aren't getting a single new ability. Right. To my experience, the changes have made ret more fun to play. I don't think it's entertaining to run a .ahk script and hold down 5 buttons to dps. I think it's less entertaining to mash them when they light up. I think it's less entertaining to run at any given world enemy with complete confidence that it will die and I will be uninjured.

[Doylez]

Yup. You're the only class without a baseline offensive CC--except the best baseline offensive CC in the game.

and by "the best" you mean it's dispellable, has a low range and a long ass cooldown unlike similar abilitys as kidney shot and/or deep freeze.
It's pretty much the opposite of "the best".

[4KhazModan]

Unless i don't understand how counter spell and kick work... but don't you have to be mid cast for them to take affect? So unless you are a holy pally in pvp or a similar situation when is prot/ret casting anything to get spell locked?

If you are talking about pvp, then while we are healing ourselves which is apparently what makes us so op, we can get totally locked out of everything we can do. In pve, as a tank, any mob that silences is my worst nightmare, as it leaves me completely unable to keep even an ounce of threat.
As for schools, they should be Ret, Holy, and Prot, like in the spellbook.

[Jeina]

Doesn't affect Ymirjar, which always pissed me off on the Frost wing trash. Didn't do jack in Ulduar and half the fights of ToC, either.

Pretty sure he was talking about Cataclysm.

[Rowsdower]

Doesn't affect Ymirjar, which always pissed me off on the Frost wing trash. Didn't do jack in Ulduar and half the fights of ToC, either.

Why do you believe those are elementals or dragonkin? Reading my comment with some grasp of context may aid your assessment. Hint: it starts with "Cata-" and ends with "-clysm".

[AgentCantwell]

Adding to what Ronark said, if you want to talk about balanced, tell me how being counterspelled or kicked once and being locked out of 100% of my spells is fair? No other class has such a limit, every caster class can do SOME other school of magic if they're CS'd, but once it happens to use, we're dead. A 2 second AoE stun is not OP.

Shamasn say hi. And also, I can't interrupt through your bubble. You have repent, hammer of justice, which is a ranged kidney shot that doesn't require combo points. Paladins also have the ability to remove snares and be immune to them for a short time on a relatively short CD. They can actually do damage to people in pvp and can also heal themselves. Luckily it looks like rets self healing ability will be toned down a bit but still. A 2 second AoE stun? You do realize with the stun it is an interrupt.