Crowd control sucks, why do people keep asking for it?

[dantian]

One of the things I see constantly on these forums is the demand for Blizzard to make crowd control a requirement to succeed again. Why do people seem to want this so much? The usual argument is that it will kill the 'bads', the people who don't know how to play their classes, and thus stop them from getting gear that will be available to the more skilled people.

My reply would be: No. It won't. Marking every pull is not difficult, it is not strategic, and it doesn't require a great mind to pull off effectively. All requiring crowd control on every pull will accomplish is to greatly slow down the pace of dungeons, and make them annoying and tedious again. Who really remembers the days of marking every pull with fondness? I know I don't. I played an enchanter in Everquest, and don't really feel like taking on the role of mezbot ever again.

Further, why is making the trash more difficult a better way to punish 'bads' for being bad? Is that how is should be? The trash in an instance are what make people facepalm? It seems a better alternative would be harder boss encounters that require quick reflexes and good performance. I wouldn't even object to requiring a bit of CC on bosses, to control adds spawning if the dps can't kill them fast enough, but I don't see why CC on trash is in such high demand, could someone explain it to me?

[Herecius]

Bads need to be punished for being bad, because if they aren't punished, how will they ever learn? It's not like they actually listen to advice when freely given or seek out help on their own. Corporal punishment, son!

EDIT: More honestly, CC isn't THAT high in demand in Cataclysm. Proper focus fire, interrupts, and stuns really trump CC in most cases, it's not quite to the extreme that it was in some of the more difficult TBC heroics. Many of the boss encounteres really do have exactly what you asked for, just watch the videos if you don't mind spoiling it for yourself.

[Tanksenior]

You say it doesn't require a great mind to kill thrash effectively.... Well guess what....

What you do require is a certain amount of common sense, which in my experience is not that common at all.

[Deleted]

From what I've seen, bads would need CC whereas less bad players can survive with well timed stuns and correct interrupts.

OP, people want it because trash and HCs are so faceroll today. You play the game without really playing, get what I mean.

[VincentWolf]

Totally agree with you. Hopefully whole big "need to cc" idea won't last longer than first month.

[Splenda]

People want CC back because it made you pay attention to something, and made it less so that you couldn't watch TV while moving through trash packs. Mindlessly AoEing every single trash pack is painfully boring and requires 0 thought process and doesn't require you to pay attention to anything whatsoever.

At least with CC, you have to be paying enough attention to not break it and recast it as needed. Some attention required.

Variety is the spice of life. Not every pull should need CC and not ever pull should be an AoE spam, the best way to keep your interest level up is a variety.

[brirrspliff]

Crowd control sucks, why do people keep asking for it?

braindead aoe sucks. that's why we are asking for the need to use our brains and character-skills again. chainpulling trashgroups while everyone is spamming aoe is boring. a short talk before the pull which enemys is the most dangerous and needs to be rooted/sheeped/stunned/kited away/kissed/... are the kind of game the more capable wow players like to play.

maybe just try to adapt and use your brain while playing. it will be fun!

[talitu]

its not about punishing bad players its about making the content engaging i would guess the op views 5 man content as boring and something he has to go through to get to end raiding.

[MasterHamster]

Because you feel more awesome waiting for that rogue to sap the healing mob.

[Deleted]

your entitled to your opinion, and im not going to criticise it, but to try and offer an explanation as to why people might want CC, and not only as a way of punishing the bad.
It could be possible that people are tired of being able to literally walk through dungeons without paying any attention or any care. The use of CC would bring a new element to battles where people would have to be aware of their surroundings and what is happening, helping them to fall deeper into the game, and focusing more on it.
I agree that given time it will be tedious to use CC all the time in heroics, but hopefully after gearing the CC wont be needed as much.
Mindless grinding of heroics is tedious, so is having to use CC on everything. A balance between the two would be a better solution rather than saying we need CC all the time, or the opposite and saying to remove CC all together.

[Vesker]

Right now I am able to sprint through heroics with my Fan of Knives button taped down and emerge unscathed and just a bit richer, it's been that way for a while now. I'd honestly prefer having CC back if it gave me some incentive to actually pay attention to what I'm doing.

[Correlia]

braindead aoe sucks. that's why we are asking for the need to use our brains and character-skills again. chainpulling trashgroups while everyone is spamming aoe is boring. a short talk before the pull which enemys is the most dangerous and needs to be rooted/sheeped/stunned/kited away/kissed/... are the kind of game the more capable wow players like to play.

maybe just try to adapt and use your brain while playing. it will be fun!

^ This. If you don't like the change to bring CC back then don't buy cata.

[makak]

heh get some timer addon and make focus macro and you can even teach your dog to do cc so why so much whine about it ??

[Deleted]

Bads need to be punished for being bad, because if they aren't punished, how will they ever learn? It's not like they actually listen to advice when freely given or seek out help on their own. Corporal punishment, son!

QFT.
What makes Heroics tedious and annoying is the chance to get the bad players that go for mindless aoe and screw up pulls. If people don't get punished how will they ever improve?

---------- Post added 2010-10-09 at 10:37 AM ----------

heh get some timer addon and make focus macro and you can even teach your dog to do cc so why so much whine about it ??

Because it means people need to step away from their childish Trade spam to set up a macro like that.
Current community has a huge part of whiny people that want easy faceroll so they don't need to use their head while 'just playing a game'.

[Baabinator]

Because if bads learn that nuking always works (in heroics in this case) they will use that on Raids as well, and the raids will fail miserably.

And if these bads sneaked into your guild they will bring the down the raid as well.

It's better if they teach the bads from the start to CC unless it's been properly shown you can do it otherwise.

[Ershiin]

As a side note you only need to mark if people dont know what to CC and focus fire already.
If you're any decent, you'll only need to have a pack marked the first time you do it.
If you're better than decent you will simply mouse over a mob.. See it has a manabar or looks like something you dont want to fight with the rest of the pack and CC it on the pull per reflex.

Blizz do make some effort to put in visual cues about what types of mobs you're fighting.. Its not hard to figure out when the big mob have been hitting hard for the last 85 levels and the tiny robed one has been healing or casting otherwise nasty spells for the last 85 levels.

[Deleted]

It also gives dps classes something important to do rather than just rotation, rotation.

"Crowd control" doesn't just mean polymorph/sap/etc. It includes all manner of stuns, interupts, kiting and missdirects.

At the moment, the only classes that can cause a wipe (in 5-man content) by fucking up are the healers and the tanks. Giving DPS an actual responsibility (that isn't just stop attacking, or move out of the fire) is a good idea, and will make them more fun to play and at the same time show up who the bad players are.

[MarioInfinity]

mmm; they put the abilities in the game long ago; why not require their use? It's not going to limit bad or good players; both will have to just learn to hotbar that ability.

Gotta remember; Blizzard wants to make money; so their not going to design Cataclysm into making it an Elitist; only the current top 10% of player base will succeed in heroics/raids sorta system.. they'd loose millions if they did that.

I know on any of my toons i use prolly half or maybe a 2/3's of my abilities; I'm kinda looking forward to seeing some of those old dusty abilities be used again.

[Tenderoni]

Bads need to be punished for being bad, because if they aren't punished, how will they ever learn? It's not like they actually listen to advice when freely given or seek out help on their own. Corporal punishment, son!

So, they still won't listen to you when you're asking them to NOT blizzard/seed/hurricane/starfall... then when the group wipes, they'll blame the healer.
These are the same people who run instances with crusader aura, don't switch out their totems when there are two shamans, don't cast tricks, ninja pull, ninja loot, gem badly, enchant badly..
All I can foresee in terms of BC-style heroics is that they will make PuGs a nightmare.

[DerSenf]

braindead aoe sucks. that's why we are asking for the need to use our brains and character-skills again. chainpulling trashgroups while everyone is spamming aoe is boring. a short talk before the pull which enemys is the most dangerous and needs to be rooted/sheeped/stunned/kited away/kissed/... are the kind of game the more capable wow players like to play.

maybe just try to adapt and use your brain while playing. it will be fun!

OP never said he wanted to AoE-Zerg every heroic in Cata
He said simply marking the targets and single dps them down in the right order should be enough then adding the need of CC.

I kinda see some point in this actually. If there is a real "Need" of CC in Cata, some classes/speccs might feel gimped, cause they cant CC something and therefore are not prefered over classes that actually can.