Who actually likes the new Ret on 85?

[JayJay09]

Hey guys..

I am playing my paladin as my main and as ret for like 4-5 years. I've always enjoyed it (more or less (less --> classic, early bc, mid bc was okay, at least better than this, wotlk was awesome at the start, but lame in the end). But this Cata Ret just has nothing special, nothing awesome, nothing cool. I just don't like it, it annoys me.. I am bored.. I don't think about rerolling (got a ms warrior who might get some more love though), but I am just not motivated to do smth for my Paladin. In my opinion blizzard messed up big time. The new spell "Inquisition" is only to make up for the nerfed dmg, then again is almost useless in pvp, a pest to maintain anyway and on top of that only buffs our holy dmg, which has become so little making you not want to push that button too much. Holy Radiance is nothing for ret neither and the 5 min (bugged cuz of too little strength buff?) guardian is not even worth mentioning.

And when I see our possibilities.. I just lost so bad to a blood dk, cuz WoG heals simply as much as it did on lvl 80, divine protection is not really win, the guardian is stupid like shit and attacks his ghoul (ghouls army) instead of him, although I am attacking him. Zealotry is retarded.. He absorbed heal with necrotic strike, I dodged dark simulacrum by triggering it with SDM.. He silenced me, I go down like a wet noodle (we have such a FUCKED up defense, fuck divine shield.. I want it to be removed in order to be granted something useful with a reasonable cd), repent him and heal myself.. I am out of mana after 3 heals and only at 40% hp. He heals himself all the way up with deathstrike and rune tap na dghoul etc pp for free as it is his rotation in a sense...

Oh man, it's just no fun. We are a joke in pvp.. A true joke.. I don't see how this is to become better when the season starts.. I can just hope blizz is going to change stuff around.. This ret is an insult.

And regarding pve.. It's alright.. The dmg is okay, although bombing is a pest and completely gay. Boss dps is alright, however.. But I just don't feel it anymore. It's a dead spec for me... DPS with Ret is really nothing I enjoy as of now.. When I see what DKs got (necrotic strike <3, dark simulacrum <3 <3 <3 absolutely amazing!!!) and also warriors.. With collossus smash there is actually something that makes you think yeah, CS, MS, Overpower, Heroic Strike, BIG NUMBERS.. FUN.. You want to use a CS burst combo.... But Ret.. I cannot really put it into words.. The Retribution Paladin 4.0.3 just sucks.

What do you guys think? Do you like Ret or not? And if you do, please tell me why. And what are your pvp experiences so far?

Damn, my favourite Class/Spec is about to turn into something that literally disgusts me... Sad story and prolly cool as well.. But seriously.. Ret has never felt this wrong.. At least for me.

[Jin84]

With Inquistion, you will have to actively watch for the buff timer a la rogue. It is going to feel like playing a plate rogue. With practice you can be good at ret, courtesy of the Retribution Rotation Helper addon.

I don't find it annoying anymore due to the addon

[Deleted]

I love it atm, i dont know how to explain the pros and cons as of yet, but ive been really competitive i.e on par with the other dps in all heroic 5 mans in cata on average, but then again i didnt have to unlearn any other ret habits prior to the changes. i came into ret at 80 with 4.03a and i dont know i just feel its grand at the moment. i cannot complain too much this early into content.

also im a hybrid so while fighting i can help with come nice healing tools, etc. So i dont see the bad atm.

While i am not trying to sound cheeky but maybe it is time for you to change class. It is never a good idea to play a video game if it isnt fun, and if ret isnt doing it for you why not try out a dk or a warrior and see if that is any better for you.? youll never know it might be the class for you.

(in regards to pvp. im sorry i heal in pvp not ret. so cannot speak much in regards to that)

[mypally]

How much does inquisition increase our dps anyway? assuming single target, I cant see it being more then a 5% dps increase over just getting an extra TV.

As for how ret feels in pvp, im sad to admit it, but after 2 xpacs of retting, im trying out holy, simply because I cant kill, control, or really harm anything besides a bad warrior or enh shaman. Ill keep gathering the ret gear of course, cause dammit i want to ret in pvp, but in its current form, I not only cant see it being competitive, but it just seems like a waste to choose it over holy, or even prot.

Edit: and in response to the poster above me, I disagree that he should have to reroll or find a new game. I, and im sure others, chose a pally with the idea of a holy warrior, which to me is ret. We thought we would be able to heal ourselves while doing damage, and accepted the fact that it may come at the expense of some other utility. What we have now is a class that is out self healed by nearly every class, and is still lacking alot of that utility. Hell, if hammer was gone, i dont think id see a single ret pally above 1200.

[assilley]

there are a lot of classes that had to relearn. even arc mages had to relearn from 11112 to 1111111111111111111111111. Big learning curve they had to undertake.

Anyways, who said you had to be in melee range to do some dmg.. pop inq, wings hammer and exo spam whilst they are stunned at ranged, esp with exo glyphed.. pop in a judge or DP and keep your mana up and you could get that dk down in reasonably quick. hit them with seal of slowing, can kite them around a little bit.

The main thing about this exp is every class has a chance to make an error, you have to learn your class properly and beable to react fast. Looking at healing issues at 85 for some and i will be taking points in selfless healer and probably glyphing lay on hands. if i can ease the healers workload and stay alive, then the small dmg increase bonus is enough compensation for me. Dead dps = no dps.

I guess the last thing to understand about paladins is the raid utility they can provide, no one else can drop another players threat, reduce the dmg they take make them imune the physical dmg, throw out what will probably be an instant 100k heal. Ret has now has a reliable interupt, CC ability, suddenly we now have a handy aoe heal that can be popped considering mana isnt really an issue for ret.

I do share your concerns though that our healing abilities havent really scaled with the stam we are getting, but then im guessing thats across the board. its a lot harder to top yourself up quick like it used to be.

[Ciah]

This is so much like a plate rogue it's not even funny. If I wanted a rogue that could also heal and tank I would have played feral... or hell, I would have played a rogue lmao

[JayJay09]

With Inquistion, you will have to actively watch for the buff timer a la rogue. It is going to feel like playing a plate rogue. With practice you can be good at ret, courtesy of the Retribution Rotation Helper addon.

I don't find it annoying anymore due to the addon

Inquisition is only something that, when you activate it, does not make you feel like "yeah", like it does for me, when I colossus smash and then ms etc. It's something, when activated, that makes me feel like "finally, seal of truth, hammer of wrath and exo (exo little less so, it hits hard without inc, but fuck this rng.. just fuck it.. big time.. actually biggest time ever) deal the dmg they should in order to make us competitive".. At the expense of three HP. I could live with that.. I don't like it, but really.. I could stand it. It's just damn boring and nothing really cool.

If it wasn't for the complete crippledness in pvp... Kiting that dk was not possible. When I tried it with HoF I was gripped, when I tried it by dispelling slow from ice chains, I went oom (i have cleanse skilled and glyphed), when I used TV instead of 3 HP WoG I went down so damn fast making me regret it pretty quick. My "burst" with wings was absorbed by anti magic shell, boneshield and ibf.. My retarded Guardian attacked his blood worms and ghouls (WTF?????). Inquisition with 10 sec dur is senseless in pvp.. But the 10 seconds of one exo proc and hammer of wrath while wings and inq were active brought him down by like 50% which was instantly heald back to full by only deathstrike and runetap. Considering the fucked up scaling of HoW and the gain of resilience later.. I don't see how we are supposed to kill anything. Best thing was.. I think it was heartstrike that struck me for 11k, while my highest templars verdict was 12k (and kritting has a chance of like 16% with TV at 85). Jesus, he was tank specced and could put out so much pressure on me, making me use every 3 hp for wog and I still went down. Even with zealotry active I was barely able to survive.

I actually know what I do. The ret has not gotten anything fun, it's messed up. I am not complaining about keeping Inq up in pve, although it makes little sense due to the lack of holy dmg.. It's no problem to watch the uptime, but there is just too little profit in it. Inq makes SoT not even close to what it was and felt like before 4.0. I am just not feeling it.

And our defense is really not existent. On lvl 80 I healed for 7-8k with flashlight. Now I heal with 8k baseline. Wog healed ~18k critical.. Now it heals 18-20k. What else we got? Seal of insight lets me have a bit more mana, which is good, but heals me only for like 1,2k - 1,5k. Just the amount it healed on lvl 80. It does not really help survivability. And it's at the expense of dealing even less dmg. Besides getting oom when healing and then not even be healed but for like max 20%, I don't see any hybdrid bonus. Divine Protection is okay, but as a sole defensive ability way too weak. Divine Shield is like always, but with 4 seconds less and letting you be oom after it expires without having gotten much health back --> I hate divine shield.. I just hate it.. It's the excuse for everything why we don't get useful stuff.. And I just hate it so much with it's stupid 5 min cd, 8 sec duration and no profit in the end.

Templars Verdict was stronger on lvl 80 before the revert of hotfixes. It was a truck. Now, besides barely put to use, it actually never crits and deals 8-10k dmg.. Yeah.

This is just so fucked up. I have beaten dks blindly on lvl 80 with 4.0+ before cata.. And now I am getting just destroyed by them.. Especially in tankspec.. What we lack is a real dmg rotation.. Build up three hp in order to not die or deal a bit dmg is really nothing compared to what you are able as a warrior. You can time things, aim for things and, most important, deal dmg without the risk of just dying.

And again.. FUCK this rng, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.. The guy who made ret this much of a rng class needs to be fired.. I am losing my connection to my once favourtie spec.. I really went through hard times.. But now, where everybody else has got really cool stuff, it just feels so wrong and pathetic. Besides.. It's also rng that keeps me alive.. Lucky HoL procs or returning HP thanks to eternal glory. it's luck if I live or not.. Fucking retarded.

And let me quote what it says when you choose retribution:

"A righteous crusader who judges and punishes opponents with weapons and Holy magic."

That would be right if we actually dealt considerable holy dmg and were gaining a bonus from judging besides just not going oom. Judgement dmg cannot be taken seriously. I feel whaked by blizzard and this retribution. I know I am repeating myself with like every line.. But I am just so disappointed. And since I do not really see blizzard admitting ret to be a freekill in pvp I will probably just stay a sad panda..

I really do not see why ret is so difficult to balance. There must be hatred involved, otherwise this mechanic and this poor pvp performance over the whole beta and the start of cata cannot be explained.

Ps.: I actually like critical hits. I want them again. Frostdk got a free 33% due to killing machine for example.. Exo never crits, tv rarely.. CS like 25%... And the rest deals no dmg anyway.. Okay, HoW crits in 50% of the cases.

Edit: It's not about relearning ret. It's a matter of fact what I am writing. Lolret.

[Kenjji]

I don't like it, at, all. but I'm still playing to help out my guild to startoff with the new content, feel like i did more dps on lvl 80( and not just in icc) then i do now

[Deleted]

I do like it more than dislike it, several small adjustments which have been talked about (mostly in regard to RNG) would each make it just a tad more fun (no, removing/automatizing Inquisition is not one of them). The biggest problem I have with it is the massive amount of things that seem to be there just to limit our burst potential, and thus make us weak on encounters with heavy target switching.

..The 5-stacks-via-autoswings Censure is the biggest culprit, of course. They even changed the tooltip during beta to state "your attacks cause the target to take.." from "your autoattacks..", but it's still stacking just from autoattacks.

[ciggy]

Feels painful to me honestly, I am sure it will be changed yet again. Just keep with it mate, and know others feel the same.

[JayJay09]

Feels painful to me honestly, I am sure it will be changed yet again. Just keep with it mate, and know others feel the same.

I desperately hope so. But anytime soon? I actually aimed on accomplishing something in PvP in Cata with my retribution Paladin.

[Bellisimo]

Pains me to say it, but Ret is a real mess. Loving my Holy spec, not sure if that makes me a bit wrong, coz there ain't many of us around, but Ret in a PvE enviroment is just not very inspiring.

[JayJay09]

Edit: and in response to the poster above me, I disagree that he should have to reroll or find a new game. I, and im sure others, chose a pally with the idea of a holy warrior, which to me is ret. We thought we would be able to heal ourselves while doing damage, and accepted the fact that it may come at the expense of some other utility. What we have now is a class that is out self healed by nearly every class, and is still lacking alot of that utility. Hell, if hammer was gone, i dont think id see a single ret pally above 1200.

This. So much. I play Paladin with the Retribution spec, because I like the meaning of it above all. The conversion of this meaning, however, sucks. I don't like it and anybody who likes pvping will notice that the ret lacks just so much. I said that for PvE I could live with the ret as of now..

A DK would be the opposite of what I like to play. I have a lvl 80 DK and it's cool, but I want that Holy shit. I want to be rather a protagonist an enforcer of the light. A Warrior is my main twink and I play him very often and with great passion. Nonetheless my Paladin is my main and is supposed to stay this way. I couldn't play any other class than Paladin and Warrior.. I like the idea of the Paladin and the feeling of a warrior just too much. And the reason why I don't reroll Warrior is just I don't want to reroll. I play both anyway.

[Rio]

I love Retribution at the moment. Despite the bugs that need fixing, I think our rotation works well. We're basically a rogue in plate.. with a few tweaks to make it interesting here and there. However, I think this 'addon' is going to attract a lot of newbs once again who just want to faceroll without having to watch anything.

With that said, the only thing I cannot stand is our AoE. I know aoe isn't a big deal, but I would find it much more fun if our Divine Storm went back to consuming holy power. Right now it seems worthless, unless you're aoeing mobs such as whelps before Sindy. This is my only complaint.

[Deleted]

Our strongest ability is a Holy ability. In my opinion I find Inquistion and the fact that Exorcism hit so hard compared to our ret skills not very good. I loved it when Judgement was our high hitter and I also agree with the fact that our AOE is pretty dead. Seals should also be of greater purpose to Ret Paladins. I am currently gearing my Ret for raids but I hope I can switch him with my Shaman when he is done.

Also comparing to DK were quite useless. They have insane AOE and do same damage as us on Single Target(Level 80). Don't know how raiding is like on Paladin on 85, but I hope we better do some insane Single Target damage because of the major loss in AOE.

[archangelz]

Anyways, who said you had to be in melee range to do some dmg.. pop inq, wings hammer and exo spam whilst they are stunned at ranged, esp with exo glyphed.. pop in a judge or DP and keep your mana up and you could get that dk down in reasonably quick. hit them with seal of slowing, can kite them around a little bit.

"Seal of slowing" "Kite them around" "Exo spam (as ret)". Yeah, you don't play a paladin.

[Sindy]

I was a huge fan of WOTLK ret and consider myself and above average player. I do not like how the abilities clash with each other and the spec seems incomplete, ill-thought, and half-assed. Inquisition doesn't fix a think, not even if it were passive. I am consistantly last or close to last on DPS and that includes tanks in some cases. It's just sad, real sad. I will likely go holy.

[frejborg]

I get the idea that the OP is a big liar, lacks in Paladin experience, started in WotLK, and is now crying about a much more complex Ret Paladin.

Well, that's my impression.

How hard could it be? Maybe you need to sit in a corner and think for a while.


I on the other hand am quite interested in the Ret changes!

[Deleted]

I get the idea that the OP is a big liar, lacks in Paladin experience, started in WotLK, and is now crying about a much more complex Ret Paladin.

Well, that's my impression.

How hard could it be? Maybe you need to sit in a corner and think for a while.


I on the other hand am quite interested in the Ret changes!

Not that hard, but very annoying to keep everything up and not mess a single thing, between maintaining Inquisition, using HoL and AoW proc asap, not messing with cooldowns, it's a real pain in this ass, and this to do a shit DPS... I wouldn't say that if dificulty of rotation made us have an awesome dps, but that's not the case, we have a very complex rotation for a very poor result.

Right now, playing as prot.

[Sindy]

I get the idea that the OP is a big liar, lacks in Paladin experience, started in WotLK, and is now crying about a much more complex Ret Paladin.

Well, that's my impression.

How hard could it be? Maybe you need to sit in a corner and think for a while.


I on the other hand am quite interested in the Ret changes!

Being well designed, and being interesting are 2 totally different things. The Mastery, and 31 point talent clash hard, you end up wasting more holy power than you spend, or not generating any at all in some cases. The new ret isn't hard at all. Just because Rogues can count to 5 doesn't mean it's f-ing rocket science you know. I consider myself better than the average player and i'm adept with how to smash random buttons like a moron. Ret is just horribly designed. Period.