[TV] Doctor Who

[Immitis]

Last night’s episode was watched by 4.81 million (a 21.5% audience share) viewers in the UK on BBC1, according to early overnight viewing figures.

The overnight figures are early estimates and we can expect a sizeable increase when the final BARB figures are released next week. The overnight figures only include those who watched it live and those who recorded and watched it later that night, however the final figures includes those who recorded and watched within a week, making them a more accurate measure of how many were watching.

The 2014 ratings so far:

Deep Breath 6.8m (overnight) 9.17m (final) 10.76m (L+7) AI 82
Into the Dalek 5.2m (overnight) 7.29m (final) AI 84
Robot of Sherwood 5.2m (overnight) 7.28m (final) AI 82
Listen 4.8m (overnight) 7.01m (final) AI 82
Time Heist 4.93m (overnight) 6.99m (final) AI 84
The Caretaker 4.89m (overnight) 6.82m (final) AI 83
Kill the Moon 4.81m (overnight) TBCm (final) AI TBC

(iPlayer figures are not included in the ‘final’ figure)
(Live Plus 7 (L+7) counts those who watched live and all repeats, including iPlayer, within seven days following broadcast.)
(The Audience Appreciation Index (AI) is a score out of 100 which is used as an indicator of the public’s appreciation for a show.)

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/doctor-...ator-66394.htm

[theturn]

http://news.discovery.com/earth/weat...red-130425.htm

[Endus]

http://news.discovery.com/earth/weat...red-130425.htm

I like how your own source confirms my statements. While the moon affects precession, your own source confirms that the process would take millions of years. MILLIONS. This isn't something humanity would have trouble adapting to. Hell, evolution works on that timescale, let alone human technology.

[Deleted]

We are a lot smarter and science savvy now than when Star Trek (even TNG) aired. A lot of Dr Who fans do have a good grasp on certain aspects of science and basic animal husbandry. Eggs do not gain mass while incubating, and newborn animals do not lay eggs larger than themselves within moments of birth. We gladly ignore a lot of the functions of the sonic screwdriver, but what happened in kill the moon was too hard to swallow. Hell, even The Big Bang Theory has a scientific fact checker.

[Redmage]

Ugh, first episode I didn't care for this season. Really bad science (I know its a science fiction show but this shit was just inexcusably bad) and a bizarre abortion-is-murder subtext? The only thing I liked was Clara getting pissed at the doctor, and rightfully so, his motives made no sense and it was clear they just wanted a reason for him to not be there during the climax to add tension.

[Arrowstormen]

Ugh, first episode I didn't care for this season. Really bad science (I know its a science fiction show but this shit was just inexcusably bad) and a bizarre abortion-is-murder subtext? The only thing I liked was Clara getting pissed at the doctor, and rightfully so, his motives made no sense and it was clear they just wanted a reason for him to not be there during the climax to add tension.

The Doctor has done something similar in The Hungry Earth / Cold Blood. Totally in-character.

[mvaliz]

Well seeing as the finalé is a 2parter all about it, I think you'll get your wish soon :P.

Kill the Moon seems to have been a pretty divisive episode, even more so than Listen. That kinda seems to be the theme for Capaldi though, he's quite a divisive doctor.

I'm still debating if that's a good thing or not. They tried to do different and divisive with Colin Baker, and it fatally crippled the show back in the classic era.

While I believe change can be a good thing, change just for the sake of being different is NOT always a good thing. The problem is they're making the Doctor, who is the hero we like, a deliberately UNLIKEABLE character. It's like if the new Star Wars made Luke Skywalker or Han Solo out to be complete rude random jerks. Sure, people change when they get older... but this is the AUDIENCE we're talkign about. The Doctor's always been fun. Hell - even William Heartnell, though cranky/crochety in the begining, still was a very likeable and even amusing/fun character.

It also doesn't help that Clara is now a completely differently written character, up to and including doubting the Doctor from Day 1 (yet she had no problem with any incarnations, even liking and giving the MUCH older looking War Doctor a peck on the cheek). And I'm still trying to figure out why she's even doing the whole "double life" thing when it's really not in any way necessary, as demonstrated by decades worth of companions - including two specific Coal Hill School Teachers in 1963-1965.

[lokithor]

We are a lot smarter and science savvy now than when Star Trek (even TNG) aired. A lot of Dr Who fans do have a good grasp on certain aspects of science and basic animal husbandry. Eggs do not gain mass while incubating, and newborn animals do not lay eggs larger than themselves within moments of birth. We gladly ignore a lot of the functions of the sonic screwdriver, but what happened in kill the moon was too hard to swallow. Hell, even The Big Bang Theory has a scientific fact checker.

Because we really understand alien biology right?

[Deleted]

Because we really understand alien biology right?

No, but we do understand physics.

I mean for me the science isn't a huge deal - it was a little harder to swallow than usual, given we were dealing with a topic that we do actually know a lot about - but the important thing was the impact on the characters.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still debating if that's a good thing or not. They tried to do different and divisive with Colin Baker, and it fatally crippled the show back in the classic era.

While I believe change can be a good thing, change just for the sake of being different is NOT always a good thing. The problem is they're making the Doctor, who is the hero we like, a deliberately UNLIKEABLE character. It's like if the new Star Wars made Luke Skywalker or Han Solo out to be complete rude random jerks. Sure, people change when they get older... but this is the AUDIENCE we're talkign about. The Doctor's always been fun. Hell - even William Heartnell, though cranky/crochety in the begining, still was a very likeable and even amusing/fun character.

It also doesn't help that Clara is now a completely differently written character, up to and including doubting the Doctor from Day 1 (yet she had no problem with any incarnations, even liking and giving the MUCH older looking War Doctor a peck on the cheek). And I'm still trying to figure out why she's even doing the whole "double life" thing when it's really not in any way necessary, as demonstrated by decades worth of companions - including two specific Coal Hill School Teachers in 1963-1965.

Capaldi doesn't have a funny/likeable side to you?

[Kelimbror]

Eh...episode was mediocre until the end. Characters were annoying...that child should have been left on the moon for the good of all humanity. Love that they realistically showed humanity voting to blow it up. Disappointed that it wasn't a star whale that hatched, which would have been a much more meaningful ending. That would have made it a brilliant episode, even with the bad characters. In any case, I'm very glad to see the anger from Clara, because I'm ready for her to get gone.

[DemoBytom]

Disappointed that it wasn't a star whale that hatched, which would have been a much more meaningful ending. That would have made it a brilliant episode, even with the bad characters.

But then Doctor would know exactly what that creature is and what he could become in the future and would have no reason to not interfere, in fact that would be the best reason for him to do interfere - you know to save the humanity in the future.
Here he didn't know what it is, he just suspected it's unique, hence he backed down to let humanity decide.. But no, he let Clara decide because she completely ignored humanity's voice..

Well unless they threw another "oh, he just forgot about that big whale from about 1k years ago from his PoV.. That big floating thingy that saved humanity back when he was traveling with Amy"..

[Kelimbror]

But then Doctor would know exactly what that creature is and what he could become in the future and would have no reason to not interfere, in fact that would be the best reason for him to do interfere - you know to save the humanity in the future

This new Doctor is boldly callous, while also not seeming to remember how humanity operates other than his usual bias. Knowing what the creature was, knowing how important it was to the future, and then still relying on Clara to make the right decision would have emphasized what he did tenfold over how it went this time. It had the same effect with a low key, non existing creature, but would have had more meaning if it was the whale. Just how I see it though...

[Drummerboy]

Kill the Moon was terrible.

Why:
This is not Magic School Bus. Kids should never be on the TARDIS. They're mouthy and annoying. They are always plot devices.

The Doctor contributed directly ZERO to everything in the story. He did affect time by bringing two people disassociated with this "time" and those people caused events to play out.

The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one. Kill the space moth!!! Who the hell cares? When the person transmitting from earth said things were getting "dire" I pretty sure he was saying people were dieing or close to dieing and not "Oy, the surfers are really annoyed".

The moth lays an egg larger than itself. And the egg looks identical to the previous moon. And this sparked space travel and not the invasion of daleks, cybermen, zygons, a space whale with London on its back or some wily old time traveler in a blue police box.

[DemoBytom]

This new Doctor is boldly callous, while also not seeming to remember how humanity operates other than his usual bias. Knowing what the creature was, knowing how important it was to the future, and then still relying on Clara to make the right decision would have emphasized what he did tenfold over how it went this time. It had the same effect with a low key, non existing creature, but would have had more meaning if it was the whale. Just how I see it though...

I think it'd be just bad. "Oh you know, that space whale will some day save humanity from extinction, so I didn't tell you to see if YOU Clara, would make a decision to save it instead blowing yourself to bits, without that knowledge, I willingly saved it from you for a sole reason to let you.. Well I dunno feel ultraimportant?"..

I mean, without completely rewriting the entire episode, I don't see how they could fit that space whale thingy without making Doctor into vast dick beyond dicks openly refusing to do what we're expecting from him - helping humans thrive and survive, for no apparent reason.

The reasoning in the episode was clear - "I don't know what it is, I don't know what it will do, I don't know what will happen to your planet, but it will determine your future, so you make the decision".
With the whale it'd change into "I know what it is, I know what you have to do, I know what will happen, so I'm leaving you, without giving you that info, so that Clara can make the decision"... o_O
That's more than just being callous. That's being brutal and, quite evil.. There's a big difference between "I don't know, so I leave it to you" and "I know, so F-u and make the decision yourself"..

[Kelimbror]

to see if YOU Clara, would make a decision to save it instead blowing yourself to bits, without that knowledge, I willingly saved it from you for a sole reason to let you.. Well I dunno feel ultraimportant?"

That's essentially what happened in the episode already. That's why she flipped her ish at the end. He thought he was respecting her by giving her that decision. He was utterly bewildered at her reaction.

[Endus]

The moth lays an egg larger than itself.

Not if you'd actually been paying attention during the episode. The reason they were sending a shuttle in the first place was that the Moon had increased several times over in mass, already. That's why they had normal "weight", rather than 1/6th your weight, which you'd normally have on the Moon, meaning the creature was about 6 times more massive than the Moon shortly before hatching.

So the "egg" is roughly 1/6th the mass of the space moth thing. That's smaller, not bigger.

And the egg looks identical to the previous moon. And this sparked space travel and not the invasion of daleks, cybermen, zygons, a space whale with London on its back or some wily old time traveler in a blue police box.

It takes place at a future date where, despite all that stuff having happened, humanity is still turning away from space. Maybe none of that stuff has happened in a while.

The entire point of the episode is that it takes place at a point where humanity was ready, both technologically and emotionally, to make that cultural shift and move into space in a big way.

That's essentially what happened in the episode already. That's why she flipped her ish at the end. He thought he was respecting her by giving her that decision. He was utterly bewildered at her reaction.

He should've been. Clara's reaction was totally in the wrong. Her issues were that she didn't like facing the responsibility of her choices having consequences. She wanted the Doctor to take that responsibility away from her, and just fix things.

It's a childish stance. Frankly, I think the Doctor expected more of Clara, rather than the other way around. I think that's why they have the kid along; the kid's more willing to step up. It demonstrates exactly how childish Clara's being.

She isn't angry at the Doctor. She's angry at herself, because, as she herself stated, she almost made the wrong choice. That isn't the Doctor's fault. And making your own choices, and facing the consequences thereof, is a significant part of growing up.

This episode actually made me think a hell of a lot less of Clara, as a person.

[DemoBytom]

The big difference is - he didn't know what would happen if either decision was made. He didn't know what that creature is, what it's impact on humanity would be, he didn't know what choice would be best for humanity. So he stepped back and let them decide. He didn't hide anything from her, he acted coldly, but fairly (even if I do not agree with his reasoning) - your planet, your future, your choice.

In the other situation he'd either deliberately hide the info from Clara, for no apparent reason, or he'd tell her and completely make the whole situation void and pointless - you can't kill that creature because it will save the humanity in the future.. It'd no longer be about moral dilema. It'd be a gamble for a sick pleasure of an alien "let's see if you make the right choice hehe"..

- - - Updated - - -

He should've been. Clara's reaction was totally in the wrong. Her issues were that she didn't like facing the responsibility of her choices having consequences. She wanted the Doctor to take that responsibility away from her, and just fix things.

It's a childish stance. Frankly, I think the Doctor expected more of Clara, rather than the other way around. I think that's why they have the kid along; the kid's more willing to step up. It demonstrates exactly how childish Clara's being.

She isn't angry at the Doctor. She's angry at herself, because, as she herself stated, she almost made the wrong choice. That isn't the Doctor's fault. And making your own choices, and facing the consequences thereof, is a significant part of growing up.

This episode actually made me think a hell of a lot less of Clara, as a person.

Tell me, who would really like to be in such position and make such important decisions. Literally you decide whether humanity will survive or not.
So far Clara has always been a sidekick for the doctor. She tags along him, she does what he tells her, she's having adventures and acts as his moral compass and bike stabilizer from time to time. But she's never really been alone, for sure not with such big power and responsibility at her hands. She is like that kid following older friend/brother just to have fun, but when things get dire she always hid behind that alien man. This time she couldn't and it frightened her to the bone. This wasn't why she choose to travel with the Doctor - she wanted to see amazing things, not decide if the entire human species will survive. She wanted to help, not make those decisions.

And as far as her character goes - for me she always had this childish side to her - that chidlish pride, the way she got angry and grumpy, the "I'm mad at you" face, the way she's always first to go and then hide behind Doctors leg to peek from behind.. This time she was expected to become Doctor which overwhelmed her. And I do completely see that and it echoes what Pink said her in the last episode - Doctor pushed her too far, far beyond her comfort zone. For the first time she really didn't have anyone to hide behind. And she definitely wasn't ready for that.

[Kelimbror]

He should've been. Clara's reaction was totally in the wrong. Her issues were that she didn't like facing the responsibility of her choices having consequences. She wanted the Doctor to take that responsibility away from her, and just fix things.

The problem is that she felt, and rightly so, that he had knowledge that would help her make the right decision and he deliberately withheld that knowledge. I think they are both justified, but I feel like she's too used to Smith's Doctor leading her by the hand on exciting adventures with no consequences that affect her. They did say this season was going to show that there are consequences for traveling with him. So while she wasn't totally in the wrong, she probably should have understood what he was doing.

That being said, the writing is trying to deliberately drive a wedge between them and force her into a normal life with Danny. It's a bit heavy handed, but necessary to head this direction.

The big difference is - he didn't know what would happen if either decision was made. He didn't know what that creature is, what it's impact on humanity would be, he didn't know what choice would be best for humanity.

Even Clara was smart enough to know he did know something and wasn't telling. He came back the second she pressed the abort button and confidently displayed that it was the right choice to make. But more to the point, there's no reason he would have necessarily known that was where the star whale came from. It would have been a revelation to himself as well.

Not knowing what will happen =/= knowing what a right choice is. Doing the right thing often involves not knowing the outcome, but doing it anyways. That was what the whole episode was about.

[Endus]

Tell me, who would really like to be in such position and make such important decisions. Literally you decide whether humanity will survive or not.

It's not about whether you like them. It's about taking responsibility for them.

And in that moment, one of three things could have happened;
1> The Doctor packs Clara and Courtney back in the TARDIS, the shuttle goes kablooie and kills the space moth, dooming humanity to an future based in fear.
2> The Doctor steps in and makes all the choices for us, treating us like incompetent children, and dooming humanity to an eternity where we never grow up, as a species.
3> The Doctor leaves Clara and Courtney behind because he trusts Clara, at least, to do the right thing, giving humanity a future.

It's like if your kid has a dog, and that dog is sick. They don't know if they should put the dog down, or keep treating it and hope it gets better, even though it will suffer for months even if it does. There comes a time when, if your kid is 25, maybe they should make their own decision on this. It sucks. Nobody's saying that either choice is going to feel "right", after you've made it. It's a decision that sucks, whichever way you choose. But it still has to be made. Being an adult means making that choice, and taking responsibility for the consequences, not hoping that someone else will take that difficult choice away from you so you don't have to face any responsibility for the consequences.

So far Clara has always been a sidekick for the doctor. She tags along him, she does what he tells her, she's having adventures and acts as his moral compass and bike stabilizer from time to time. But she's never really been alone, for sure not with such big power and responsibility at her hands. She is like that kid following older friend/brother just to have fun, but when things get dire she always hid behind that alien man. This time she couldn't and it frightened her to the bone. This wasn't why she choose to travel with the Doctor - she wanted to see amazing things, not decide if the entire human species will survive. She wanted to help, not make those decisions.

And yet, by trying to act as the Doctor's moral compass, that's exactly what she was trying to do. Push him to make a decision the way she wanted it to be made, but at enough of a remove that, if things went bad, it would still be his responsibility, not hers.

And as far as her character goes - for me she always had this childish side to her - that chidlish pride, the way she got angry and grumpy, the "I'm mad at you" face, the way she's always first to go and then hide behind Doctors leg to peek from behind.. This time she was expected to become Doctor which overwhelmed her. And I do completely see that and it echoes what Pink said her in the last episode - Doctor pushed her too far, far beyond her comfort zone. For the first time she really didn't have anyone to hide behind. And she definitely wasn't ready for that.

It ties back in to the soldier/officer thing that's come out before.

Clara's just fine being the Doctor's "soldier". He tells her to do something, she'll do it. Period. Won't even stop to think. In this episode, he wouldn't tell her what to do, and made her be the "officer", and make the decisions. Because, in this case, if he'd been the one to do so, he would have been shaping humanity's future in a serious way.

Because you need to remember; the Doctor knows when he hits these "important points" in history. Things can go one of several ways, and it will change everything. He knows this, precisely because he can't remember how it worked out. It's part of what makes him a Time Lord (and it's one of the truly alien things about him). So he knows this moment matters, and that it will shape the rest of human history. This isn't a case where it might affect things, he knows for a fact that it does. Or he'd remember how it went, and he'd make sure it went that way.

The Doctor isn't God. And he knows this. He has no desire in shaping humanity in his own image. He respects us too much.

[Arlee]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about the last episode. I mean it was an interesting premise, but Courtney's role was really to just be someone Clara felt like she needed to protect. On the one hand it gave her a glimpse to see what it's like for people who care about the Doctor's companions and a lot of what Danny had said in the previous episode.

Her blow-up at the end was just weird though. It just didn't feel real or authentic in some way I can't quite put my finger on.