When do raids get puggable?

[Toffie]

Hello... I'm the kind of person who don't have time to be in a guild and follow a strict raiding schedule. Doing heroics mainly doesn't cut it for me. I understand that raids have to be hard, but isn't that what heroic is for?


sorry if some of you is pissed of casual me, but i'm pretty sure there is alot of people like me.

[Whyhello]

When are you going to be able to pug a raid when it's current content? For an average PuG on an average server I would say never.

I'd imagine once you get t12 gear from heroics when t13 is current, PuGing t11 won't be too difficult...but until then....yeah.

[Gnomender]

I don't see this tier of content being puggable any time soon. Right now it feels tuned to be a littler harder than the wings of 25 man ICC without the scaling buff. Except now there won't be a scaling buff or well geared/experienced alts to help carry the pug. You'll need a very competent group since a fight can't drag on due to low DPS and people have to avoid damage to avoid ooming the healers.

[xcritoriousx]

It will be nerfed.

[Caelia]

BWD is currently being PUG'd on Stormscale-EU, not all of it is being cleared but afaik 4 bosses were downed yesterday by a pug.

[Yavannie]

Once you're able to buy tier items with JP, earlier raids will become pugable and also obsolete

[Arlee]

Usually pugs run 1 or 2 content cycles behind current content depending on the pugs of course.

[Jazzhands]

Gear aside, your normal pugger won't probably won't ever be able to pug this stuff. It requires a lot of quick reaction time, Maloriak has something with a one second cast time that needs to be interupted, Omnitron has a few things that you can mess up easily without fast reaction time. People could do ICC with the 30% buff, however on my server atleast, people in 264+ still messed up the first boss in ToC. Its that kind of thing that makes me think that normal pugs won't be able to do much in these new raids. Gear has never been the problem with pugs, its the thinking part that gets them.

[Enkidulgaa]

How do you define pug? If you invite anyone that has the required level without looking at their experience or if they can even play their spec right, I'd say in 4.1 or 4.2 maybe.
If you invite competent people from top guilds who are exceptional with their class and already know the encounter, then I'd say you can pug everything right now.

[rofltroll]

I'm hoping never. I'm assuming once T12 content is available and they nerf these fights into the ground so the rest of the playerbase can see them. And i don't mean to sound elitist, sorry if it does, I'm just enjoying the shit out of it being a challenge.

[Evolixe]

Usually pugs run 1 or 2 content cycles behind current content depending on the pugs of course.

Naxx, Toc and ICC do not agree with you.

Ulduar.. partly.

[w00t692]

Haven't even entered a raid yet. But i'm looking forward to the challenge for my guild. About half of us are ilvl 340-347 or so, the rest are working towards getting there, we have enough healers and tanks geared that it shouldn't be an issue to start raiding within a few weeks.

We're very casual though, no one is in a hurry to start raiding, we're enjoying gearing up in heroics. Although my current character is done and i will be working on my warrior now i'm pretty sure.

[Endus]

It all depends on what you mean by "pugged".

If you mean "a decent group of competent, but casual, players who know the content and are well-geared for it, using voice chat to coordinate decent strategies and executing them properly", then they're puggable now.

If you mean "A random group of people who respond to an invite from Trade chat with little to no experience in end-game raiding, who don't know the boss fights and expect to 'wing it' if not just stand and DPS while watching a movie, and whose gear is a smattering of random pieces of varying quality that is typically not even enchanted or gemmed appropriately for their spec", then no. Raids should never be puggable. And those players should stop wasting everyone else's time, because they are lazy and incompetent and expect to be rewarded despite that.


My guild is relatively casual, but we take raiding performance seriously. The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive. Saying you don't have time to figure out how boss fights work but want to raid anyway is like saying you want to be part of a local touch football league but you don't have time to learn plays or go to practices with the rest of the team. You aren't a special little princess, and if you want to play in the team-based aspect of the game, then you had better be prepared to make the effort to make yourself a worthwhile addition to the team.

[Fujisaw]

dont judge cata with WotLK everyone knows content was easy as shit in LK. i mean didnt all but HMLK fall in 2 weeks when heroics were available. do you see guilds progressing like that now? no even top 5 guilds in world only have 6/12 HMs. WotLK was made for baddies. Cata is made for everyone else

[Evilmonkey]

Naxx, Toc and ICC do not agree with you.

Ulduar.. partly.

Naxx was a joke laugh-a-thon compared to its original version and the mechanics were so forgiving that even with half the raid dead you could easily easily complete the encounter without even coming close to enrage timers.

ToC was just as faceroll as Naxx was and was pugged with ease because the mechanics again were incredibly forgivable so even with a raid composed entirely from trade chat and GS alone, it was downed with realitive ease.

Why was icc puggable and by puggable i mean at least 6/12? Three words, Strength of Wrynn, LoL 30 percent, need i go on? If they left icc without the buff i doubt even 4/12 would have been pugged.

Ulduar not only being the best raid in the expansion, was the only raid where even out gearing it massively, you could still fail on hodir, greya (hm), mimiron, and yogg. It easily separated the men from the boys, men full cleared it, boys didn't get past kologarn.


but really wotlk reg modes, and im going to steal the term cause its really effective, reg modes were the spectator mode for content. Want to see how it all ends? Do it on reg mode, faceroll the content, get free loots and all you have to do is maintain a subscription while learning nothing about raiding.

[Anjerith]

There is no such thing as not having time for a Guild, if you login more than 5 hours a week you really don't have a time related excuse for not being in one.

If you just dont prefer to be social that is another thing.

To the point, I submit a question of my own; When will pugs be able to play better?

[Stevoman]

Provided the current difficulty stays the same (and hopefully it will), T11 won't be puggable until T12 comes out and the JP gear is upgraded to 372.

Except for T9 and T10, the current endgame tier is never so easy as to be puggable by a group of people where half of which don't even know the fight. Pugs full clearing ICC with 4+ heroics were a clear indication of how poor the last tier of content was, and Blizzard has made clear their stance that they won't be repeating that mistake.

[Ohforfsake]

It will be nerfed.

Pretty much.. They will do anything to "show the content to casuals". Nerfs + welfare gear and it will become puggable at some point.. As much as we, raiders, hate that. Neroics will get nerfed too.. Casuals are already crying foul and threaten blizz to cancel their subs, even though heroics have nothing to do with "seeing the content". Probably next tier, or 2 tiers tops

[Lao_tzu]

Pug them whenever you want, I wish you luck

[Tech11]

I think one of the main problems atm for pugging is the fact that allot (not all) of bosses are much much much easier on 25m than 10m.

And to people who are gona deny this, then you prob havent tried both 10 and 25.
25m normal is a joke atm. It is allot more forgiving when it comes to healing & dps output

But i do think blizz will nerf the content at some point, perhaps even put in a ICC type buff (prob not 30%).
But i dont think its anytime soon.