Algalon, Sinestra - do we need more Heroic-only "reward" bosses?

[Sanavi]

Having a heroic only boss is a fun incentive, especially to those guilds that like to push progression and see such content early on. In six months from now, won't nearly be as exclusive, but for the moment, a nice perk to raiders.

[Deleted]

Yes, more heroic only encounters. Players with a lack of time should get rid of their feeling of entitlement and should realise you need to earn the privilege to get to see an heroic only boss.

The subscription fee they pay is only for access to the servers, nothing else. The rest (items, unlockable bosses, etc) should be earned.

Edit: I'm absolutely shocked that almost 10% of the voters don't want heroic only bosses. Why? Give me a decent reason? "Oh, but then less fortunate players won't get to see the content." Players like yourself you mean? Oh sorry, I forgot that you are entitled to everything in the game just because you pay a subscription fee. You don't have to earn your gear or achievements, you should all get it upon creation of your character.

This is why the icc buff was absolute garbage. I understand Blizzard wants everyone to see the game, however, in order to get that level of raiding, you need to put in effort. And that was not the case in ICC. You could jump in the instance the same day you hit level 80 (I did this on my alt, hit lvl 80, did a few heroics and then joined an ICC raid.
That's why I like, i would even go as far to say, LOVE attunements, but in the form blizzard has put them in, they were garbage. If they could re-implement attunements via the use of guild achievements or achievements, I'd be a happy raider.
So in order to get access to next raid (probably the Firelands) as a guild group, your guild needs to have the guild achievement of the previous tier of raiding (ie: the guild achievement for BWD, BoT and TotFW) OR 80% of the players needs to have the personal achievement from the previous tier of raiding in order to gain access to the next tier. If you're going with a pug group, 80% of your group needs to have the achievement (or their guild needs to have the guild achievement) for the previous tier of raiding.
So if you recruit someone new, the guild wouldn't be forced to go back and complete the new member his attunement. If you switched mains, your guild isn't forced to go back into old content and get you attuned (It's their choice to drag along your new fresh main through a raid.)

[Seezer]

That's the cool thing about it. You don't need them. That's why they are optional. You're still counted as clearing the raid even without. Just something extra challenging for people to strive for.

[Deleted]

Take a look at ulduar, the best Raid blizzard ever made, and there is no "ICC Buff" in there, and it still was fun.

I never got in to Ulduar untill ICC came, but still, I can tell ya, the best raid ever.

Ok, Ulduar is not even close the best raid Blizz has made overall, however it was the best in WotLK. I'd say most of vanilla raids were best.

But that wasn't the point of this topic so: Yea, I would like to see more heroic only secret bosses like Algalon, but not the ICC buff

[Sans]

...

So what do you think? Should they implement more, exclusive rewards for the few who are in the top guilds - or let everyone access it eventually with an ICC-buff system?

They should keep implementing these "exclusive" bosses. Eventually, people will reach them with higher tier gear. Sinestra and Algalon are not requirements for any meta achievement. They are optional even from an achievement viewpoint.

Sure, it is nice for every raider, casual or not, to get to see every bit of content. And there is a lot to be seen. Sinestra and Algalon are just a bonus to keep the pros interested. And thats a good thing. Heck, even I hope to see Sinestra some day. I never managed to see Algalon in action, however I did finish all the hardmode bosses required for the quest.

Edit: ICC buff was a bad thing and I hope we never see anything like it again. Also, not "global" nerfs. Just let regular gear progression determine the time it takes casual players to kill harder bosses.

[Xaos]

one heroic only boss a tier is nice imho. It gives you something completly new to see at the end of heroic mode, rather than just all the normal bosses with more HP and some new skills.

[Deleted]

Because the game already has a system that allows players to gradually get more health, damage and healing.

It's called gear.

It's cute when nerdy folk gets all mad when normal people can do their bosses

[Silentshank]

i will never see sinestra as a current boss fight and i agree, there should be heroic only bosses. imo it gives you something to try and work towards

and also, why does no one complain about not everyone being able to be in the top .5% in arena.. kinda the same. but kinda not :P

[mmozz]

A) There are about 12 million people paying roughly $14.99 a month to play the game. The hard/heroic/keyed only mentality per blizzard locks this content to less than 6% of the player base. I feel blizzard is wasting development time & money developing content for only 6% of the player base to have even the 'potential' of seeing it. They need to STOP that immediately.

WORST. ARGUMENT. EVER.

I'm paying $14.99 a month but I have to do heroics to get gear for raiding? I have a real life, I can't put in that extra time.

[talrob]

Hard content is like the premier league or NFL american football league or Formula 1. Not everyone can compete in this top tier league but how many people have been inspired by watching it to do that activity at their own level?

This type of content is that for wow.

[mmozz]

Voting no. HELL no. Facts are facts that we all pay the same amount of $$$ for the same entertainment, and anyone who wants to see everything and wear the best gear they've already payed for should damn well be able to without having to raid 40+ hours a week.

YES, there should be an 'easy mode' setting to raids where anyone can throw a pug together and see all the bosses.

YES, those bosses on the easy mode should drop the same gear regardless. Normal and 'heroic'

NO, people should not be punished for actually having lives and be barred from epics and content.

Don't like it? Too bad, our money talks louder than yours. Turn the easy mode off and it won't concern you.

You're a retard.

You don't have a 'life'. You come onto these forums in a fit of anger because you play WoW so much yet you suck so much balls at it.


You might as well have said:
" I PAY $$$$$$$ TO PLAY AND I DONT WANT TO WASTE TIME IN HEROIX FOR GEAR. I HAVE A LIFE."

[Deleted]

see ur world through my eyes!

algalon was epic, a buff would take this epic feeling away. still wearing starcaller.

[talrob]

WORST. ARGUMENT. EVER.

I'm paying $14.99 a month but I have to do heroics to get gear for raiding? I have a real life, I can't put in that extra time.

I have a 38 hour a week job, go hiking, do taekwondo, go out with friends 2-3 times a week to the pub or dvd/xbox nights and despite basically not raiding December(since omg we have real lives too!) we just have nefarian to go on 6 hour raid weeks. If people can't spare SIX hours a week to raid then don't complain.

[bigjenk]

The thing about Algalon was...well, he wasn't the most difficult encounter for that tier of content; Alone in the Darkness was, especially on 25-man.

I like the idea of having a few extra-difficult-to-kill-or-unlock bosses for the more hardcore raiding guilds, so long as a majority of players are able to experience a majority of the content. Since Sinestra is part of the first tier of content, everyone will eventually be able to experience the encounter as new tiers are released.

I love the idea but the "last boss" has often not been the most difficult. KJ sure wasn't, and there were at least 2 or 3 fights harder than algalon in uld. He was actually quite easy compared to yogg+1, Yogg+0, firefighter, freya+3 he just had that stupid buggy 1 hour timer.

[Goldpaw]

So what do you think? Should they implement more, exclusive rewards for the few who are in the top guilds - or let everyone access it eventually with an ICC-buff system?

Yes, and yes!

More heroic-only content, and more ICC-buff systems. I love both concepts, and see no reasons we can't combine them! It won't change the outcome of world firsts, nor the progress of the professional Guilds. But it will eventually, over months of time, make content slightly more accessible to less professional Guilds.

And since such a buff takes quite some time to build up, you won't get the lesser raid Guilds running around in top gear or boasting their kills until months after the top Guilds cleared the hard content.

Win/Win!

---------- Post added 2011-01-21 at 09:48 AM ----------

I love heroic-only bosses. You know what downing Algalon in T8 was like? ABSOLUTELY FREAKING EPIC.

Don't cheapen it a la ICC. You'll outgear it soon enough, just like Algalon.

Anything is cheapened when you outgear it. The ICC buff didn't lower the epicness of those that achieved the early kills.

[Deleted]

I'm not the hardcore raider I used to be, but I voted the bottom one..
and I got a simple argument,
the more time you put in to the game, the more you'll see about it..
which is pretty logical if you'd ask me.
so the ones that play 1 hour per week will see less of the content.. so what, there is enough for them aswell!
I'm enoying myself perfectly in cata at the moment, enough bosses to progress on with my raiding guild (not casual, nor hardcore)
and if we went through the bosses there are always the amagawd how the fuck did they manage this boss on heroic.. :>

[microtonal]

The problem is that when the buff makes as big a difference as the icc buff did a lot of players start thinking that they would rather wait for more buff stacks to get kills instead of improving, which makes the lives of anyone who is putting real effort in miserable.

Do you honestly believe that anyone in Paragon or Ensidia or any of the other bleeding-edge guilds gives two shits about how much of the raid content you ever see?

Seriously, if the thought of other players seeing the same content that you do well after it's actually relevant really makes your life miserable, you need to see a psychiatrist. That's not normal.

[Revelations]

So many good memories from Algalon. Absolutely loved the fight!

[Murderdoll]

Once again, turn off the buff if it bothers you that you can perform better.

Problem with that is, you get people killing the end boss with 30% extra damage health and healing then comming into raids/randoms/trade chat troll-a-thons flashing their nifty Kingslayer title around. It cheapens your achievement, it cheapens the end boss. That 30% buff made Arthas absolutely laughable.

[Revelations]

Problem with that is, you get people killing the end boss with 30% extra damage health and healing then comming into raids/randoms/trade chat troll-a-thons flashing their nifty Kingslayer title around. It cheapens your achievement, it cheapens the end boss. That 30% buff made Arthas absolutely laughable.

Agreed. I took a break from the game when the buff hit 10%. Killing bosses didn't feel rewarding anymore, and from there on it would only be worse. (Mind you, we had already done 11/12 HC, though). I returned some weeks before cataclysm, and did Bane of The Fallen King... didn't feel rewarding at all, and it's not something I hope they implement in this expansion.