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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafal View Post
    That being said I play disc for a 10 man guild, this buff was totally needed, and i don't see myself spending much time shield spamming, --just because you can abuse it in 25man doesn't hold true to 10 man as well.
    Honestly it is even better on 10man because you can reach your max HPS with even more sustainability. Check the top disc logs for 10heroic, you'll see the trend.

    I'm not saying the throughput buff wasn't neccessary for PW:S, I'm saying that a mechanic needs to be in place to make shield spam prohibitive, as it will always be max HPS to do so as long as our MST is what it is and it is sustainable, as has been proven by those with high gear levels.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-09 at 06:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    I agree - if shields are not the defining feature of Disc, then what's the point of having a different spec than holy?
    I agree that PW:S is a signature ability, but it shouldn't be the ability that, while spammed, is both sustainable and max HPS.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafal View Post
    That being said I play disc for a 10 man guild, this buff was totally needed, and i don't see myself spending much time shield spamming, --just because you can abuse it in 25man doesn't hold true to 10 man as well.
    You may not find it viable in current gearing / content, but with static cost of shields against a mana pool and regen that will continue to grow as you don new tiers of gear, it will become more attractive. Simply put, when the raid is predictably taking large amounts of damage you have no higher HPS solution than PW:S spam. This is already evident in guilds that are able to support it in sub-372 avg ilvl, and threatens to become easily manageable in 10 mans when we break 400 ilvl.

    Basically, in their current incarnation the pure performance of shield spam makes it too attractive against the cost which is currently manageable. Scaling the cost of subsequent casts in a short span should mitigate against gear upgrades enabling it regardless of future item level upgrades.

    I've thrown a post on the blizzard healing forum in the remote prayer that it, or some similar solution, will be considered before Blizzard simply nerfs shields in general again. They're in a good place right now aside from being OP from spamming. Feel free to throw additional thoughts on it there.

  3. #23
    Yep, the PVP buff for Disc broke PVE. There are a few fights where you can literally just spam PW:S like it's Wrath. Maloriak HM and Magmaw HM are the most obvious. Omnitron and Atramedes HM both do fairly well also. Useless on Chim until P2. Does okay on Halfus if you're doing normal with some strategies. Useless on Valiona/Theralion. Nice in P3 Council. Nice in P2 Cho'gall. Nice in P2 Al'akir. Extremely strong on Nef but the fight is long enough that it becomes a stability issue. Since I'm stuck main spec Disc for a while I have converted to very heavy Mastery stacking.

    Pretty decent, but pretty boring. Not that Prayer spam was any more fun, but it was nice to at least feel the need to open your eyes.

  4. #24
    If Bliz doesn't want disc spamming shields they need to give us more spells or abilities that make use of absorption, or that tie together.

    Lame EX: casting a direct healing spell makes you next PW:S absorb 20% more.

    either way right now i feel like the spec is way to dependent on how good or bad PW:S.

  5. #25
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    MTT give around 25k mana. And for that shaman has to stack insane amount of spirit, from trinkets (not one with spirit on proc, but those with stacking spirit buff) and from 4pt11, and if possible Heartsong.

    But with two resto's it's ~100k mana on an average fight (if they drop it after 1 minute or so).

    THey were supposed to eliminate 'spam one spell' specs in Cata. Rejuv is not supposed to be for 80% of druid's healing, and neither should PW:S be for priest. Arcane Blast style debuff is great idea imo

    PS. How can one find it interesting and fun playstyle is beyond me
    Last edited by Instant; 2011-02-10 at 06:24 AM.

  6. #26
    I'm entertained that the notion of a Mana Tide Totem doing exactly what it was designed to do is interpreted as abuse these days.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowsdower View Post
    I'm entertained that the notion of a Mana Tide Totem doing exactly what it was designed to do is interpreted as abuse these days.
    No one is calling MTT an abuse. Its just that PW:S spam was never suppose to be viable, but with a few MTTs, PW:S spam, at high gear levels is.

    MTT doesn't need a fix, PW:S does.

  8. #28
    Pandaren Monk Deleo's Avatar
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    I can see an incoming 2-3 secs CD added to shield. It's just few more days until other healers start to QQ
    Last edited by Deleo; 2011-02-10 at 06:47 AM.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
    I can see an incoming 2-3 secs CD added to shield. It's just few more days until other healers start to QQ
    Hell, a vast majority of disc priest are QQing b/c we don't like PW:S spam being our top HPS option.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    I agree - if shields are not the defining feature of Disc, then what's the point of having a different spec than holy?
    Disc are the best raid and tank healers in the game now. Something has to give. Deal with it. Being able to spam shield is the problem(and always has been since ulduar).

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    Hell, a vast majority of disc priest are QQing b/c we don't like PW:S spam being our top HPS option.
    ^^
    I prefer to offer my best performance in raids by making the correct decision in using the appropriate spell at the appropriate time where the selected spell isn't the same one 80% of the time.

  12. #32
    I keep seeing talk of HPS in regards to PW:S.

    How do you calculate HPS for an instant cast spell? What is being used as the time delta - because clearly it isn't the casting time, so what is it?

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 12:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by slyy View Post
    Disc are the best raid and tank healers in the game now. Something has to give. Deal with it. Being able to spam shield is the problem(and always has been since ulduar).
    That doesn't really answer the intent of my question in a satisfactory manner.
    Last edited by ContentsMayVary; 2011-02-10 at 01:15 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    I keep seeing talk of HPS in regards to PW:S.

    How do you calculate HPS for an instant cast spell? What is being used as the time delta - because clearly it isn't the casting time, so what is it?
    The casttime of an instant cast spell is one GCD, 1.5 seconds - haste.
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  14. #34
    The Patient Memoryz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    No one is calling MTT an abuse. Its just that PW:S spam was never suppose to be viable, but with a few MTTs, PW:S spam, at high gear levels is.

    MTT doesn't need a fix, PW:S does.
    You don't even need a few MTTs to get away with it. I never oomed on heroic magmaw, and I pretty much spammed shields the entire duration of the fight.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 07:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by slyy View Post
    Disc are the best raid and tank healers in the game now. Something has to give. Deal with it. Being able to spam shield is the problem(and always has been since ulduar).
    ACTUALLY, it was fairly balanced during that content, but whatever floats your boat.


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  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    How do you calculate HPS for an instant cast spell? What is being used as the time delta - because clearly it isn't the casting time, so what is it?
    Instant cast spells have a cast time too. It's called gcd.

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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Instant cast spells have a cast time too. It's called gcd.
    Ah, ok so I can see where these calculations are coming from. But it seems a very inaccurate way of measuring HPS for shields, due to Weakened Soul. If only one target is being shielded, then the time is effectively that the weakened soul debuff, not the GCD. If multiple targets are being shielded, then the HPS value would indeed be somewhat closer to the GCD.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-10 at 01:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
    I can see an incoming 2-3 secs CD added to shield. It's just few more days until other healers start to QQ
    That would be truely horrible.

    Personally, I'd prefer a different change (assuming that there has to be one...):

    It seems that the main problem is to do with mastery scaling too much at high gear levels, so perhaps they could reduce the effect of mastery at higher gear levels.

    Another possibility is increasing the cost of shields based on how many people in the raid are currently suffering from weakened soul (but that would be difficult for the healer to track).
    Last edited by ContentsMayVary; 2011-02-10 at 01:21 PM.

  17. #37
    Field Marshal cretz's Avatar
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    ok, if preists can spam heal with pw:s then me as a druid would like to have the option to have the old rejuv back from wotlk! thanks !!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by cretz View Post
    ok, if preists can spam heal with pw:s then me as a druid would like to have the option to have the old rejuv back from wotlk! thanks !!
    Why on earth would you want to spam one button endlessly?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Memoryz View Post
    You don't even need a few MTTs to get away with it. I never oomed on heroic magmaw, and I pretty much spammed shields the entire duration of the fight.
    You had one MTT and ran two Disc priests, effectively splitting the shielding burden in half. You casted 148 PW:Ss, which, given ~1.31sec per PW:S, you spammed for ~3:24 on a fight that lasted 8:02, not what I would call "the entire duration."

    Magmaw is one of the few fights where you prolly could have zero MTTs b/c you have long periods of hardly any raid damage followed by pulsing AoE damage. The same goes for Maloriak & Omnitron.

  20. #40
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
    I can see an incoming 2-3 secs CD added to shield. It's just few more days until other healers start to QQ
    I agree with this. It seems the most simple solution. Just take away Soul Warding / Reduce it to 2-3 sec CD instead of no CD

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