Is Assassination still viable?

[dankzilla]

Two other rogues in my guild recently went combat with the patch while i stayed assassination, two people i was constantly beating before on the meters are now topping meters. Is assassination going extinct or whats the deal. (I might just suck.)

[ymirsson]

There was this patch, 4.0.6.
It changed things, now they are different then before. If you need me to bite,chew and digest the actual changes for you, so you don't have to, i'm going to charge you. And i'm not cheap.

[vth99]

There was this patch, 4.0.6.
It changed things, now they are different then before. If you need me to bite,chew and digest the actual changes for you, so you don't have to, i'm going to charge you. And i'm not cheap.

so whats the price? :P

OT: what about sub? has it become of any use in pve since the patch compared to assassination

[Deleted]

Of course it's still viable, I'd even bet it's still better than combat

[Synexlol]

Combat is theoretically better than Mut now, but slightly behind in practice due to gear issues and more Mut Rogues about.

Sub is always 'there'. It's damage isn't quite up to Mut/Combat (Although I've not tested yet), and it's still got no proper rotation.

[Brusalk]

Personally, whether its because I can't do the combat single-target rotation well or not, Assassination is higher single target DPS, whereas Combat has amazing cleave damage (2 targets ftw). I just switch between the two depending on the trash or boss fight.

[Susej]

Are any other combat rogues having problems with Bandits Gile? I can't for the life of me keep it at 30% on a single target with out it falling off.

[ymirsson]

It is SUPPOSED to fall off. It's a cycle.

[dankzilla]

There was this patch, 4.0.6.
It changed things, now they are different then before. If you need me to bite,chew and digest the actual changes for you, so you don't have to, i'm going to charge you. And i'm not cheap.

I'm aware of the patch what i was concerned about was a mouth breather out dps'ing me because of his spec. I would do the same if i had the correct gear set up.

Are any other combat rogues having problems with Bandits Gile? I can't for the life of me keep it at 30% on a single target with out it falling off.

I don't think it is supposed to stay up at 30 percent.

[ymirsson]

I'm aware of the patch what i was concerned about was a mouth breather out dps'ing me because of his spec. I would do the same if i had the correct gear set up.

I don't understand what your question is then?
You want to know why those mouthbreather did more DPS then you? Read the patch notes.
You want to hear other's people anecdotal numbers of this wednesday's raiding?

[sabrelime]

Unless those "mouth breathers" didn't understand how to play mutilate it really doesn't make sense for you to not be still beating them if you were before.

[shadowboy]

I'm gonna guess the haste bug might have something to do with it. Energy management is more subtle and more important for assassination. A combat rogue could have gotten around the haste bug by simply spamming the next ability until it fires.

Sure, energy management is needed for combat too (I pool briefly before reapplying slice and dice to get the most out of the previous one, or will pool to reapply rupture if I can without capping), but energy management optimization is not as big of a deal for combat as it is assassination.

[Deleted]

Combat was always the THE spec for pve. Assassination was pretty close, yes, but the min-maxing rogues always went combat.

[Khanjin]

Combat was always the THE spec for pve. Assassination was pretty close, yes, but the min-maxing rogues always went combat.

Nope. Not gonna do it. Not gonna respond in the way you want me to. NO.

[Improvedlol]

They both can be the best spec, it just depends of the fight. Combat is better from 100 to 35%, Mut is better under 35%. Mut as better aoe on many targets but combat is the kind of 2 adds cleave.

[Krid]

Of course it's still viable.

[Sesshou]

Combat is theoretically better than Mut now, but slightly behind in practice due to gear issues and more Mut Rogues about.

Sub is always 'there'. It's damage isn't quite up to Mut/Combat (Although I've not tested yet), and it's still got no proper rotation.

I'm sorry but if sub has "no proper rotation" (which I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, just with what your statement seems to imply) neither of the other 2 specs do either. All rogue specs are currently priority based decisions. None of them have proper rotations anymore, and it seems like you wanted to imply sub not having a proper rotation as something bad about sub that the other 2 specs don't share.

I'm gonna guess the haste bug might have something to do with it. Energy management is more subtle and more important for assassination. A combat rogue could have gotten around the haste bug by simply spamming the next ability until it fires.

Sure, energy management is needed for combat too (I pool briefly before reapplying slice and dice to get the most out of the previous one, or will pool to reapply rupture if I can without capping), but energy management optimization is not as big of a deal for combat as it is assassination.

That makes no sense. How much haste do you run as mut? I ran under 1k. I reforged for combat and Im at about 2k now. That means that I as combat lost double the energy from the bug as you did as mut. Your point about energy management is completely irrelevant because that stands regardless of the haste bug.

To the OP, I would say its absolutely impossible assassination isn't viable. There is a large portion of fights where the benefits of assassination are higher (as opposed to say sub which while it has massive benefits on one fight, was largely useless pre patch). It is possible that assassination is no longer optimal for 90%+ of the fights? Maybe. I've tried combat this week and I'm not impressed. Unfortunately, I will probably need to stay for another week to really tell since basically everything is dead now and the haste bug wasn't fixed. It felt solid on some fights like magmaw (and amazing on halfus) but on others I seemed to fall considerably behind. I did beat our mut rogues on magmaw, but it was reasonably close and I have a slight gear advantage, but then the fights where I was lower it was by a larger number than I was ahead on magmaw. Also I already was a slight bit ahead usually when we were all mut.

So basically, I'm suggesting to you that if you were beating them significantly before and now they are ahead after respecing, the only way the spec is actually the cause of this (other than halfus) is if they utterly fail at assassination or you are judging from wipes in which you did not have the full duration of the execute phase.

[Synexlol]

Sub has very little in the way of a rotation, and is far too based on Cooldowns. If you look at it closely, it may have a rotation of sorts, but each rotation is very long, and you almost never have the same cycle twice. Subtlety is like a never-ending priority system that is based upon cooldowns, Combat and Mutilate are not.

Combat is based around finishers, because of Restless Blades and Revealing strike. It has a lot of talents and Revealing Strike which increase finisher damage, and the use of cooldowns are based on finishers.
Mutilate is based on Poisons and the Envenom buff. Need I explain this one?
Subtlety is based on Burst and Cooldowns. Every timer associated with Subtlety is merely a means to get more burst damage. It's all a priority system to keep those up to be able to make the most out of your cooldowns and get as much burst as you can.

[Freia]

Combat was always the THE spec for pve. Assassination was pretty close, yes, but the min-maxing rogues always went combat.

Assassination has been the best single target since at least ICC. Min maxing rogues always had an assassination and a combat spec since both became viable and one was always better than the other fight to fight.

Pretty sure assassination is still ahead.

[Mavian]

Assassination has been the best single target since at least ICC. Min maxing rogues always had an assassination and a combat spec since both became viable and one was always better than the other fight to fight.

Pretty sure assassination is still ahead.

Pretty much this. You always have both, especially after this patch. For Halfus and fights with low amounts of adds (HM Magmaw, etc), Combat will destroy. But for more single target damage or burst aoe on many targets, Assassination is what's going to due better.