Discipline jumping ship to Holy - Dawn of the new Bubble Bots

[MasterOfNone]

honestly tho spiritus-
you are coming across really bad. not only are you defending a system that is imperfect, you have yet to legitimize any of the good points made by several. you are just being argumentative for the sake of arguing from what i can tell. i dont think the reasonable people in this thread are the "mindless one button spammers" that you paint them as. so far there have been several people who have made good points about the disc spec and its current state. you should really look at yourself as part of the problem and not part of the solution since you can't seem to respect anyone else's opinion. BTW kissing blizzard's ass in every post wont get you ashes of alar....

[openair]

That picture means nothing without a larger sample from each of those fights and armory links for each of the samples. All that picture means was that you were #1. It doesn't show the "gap" between 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6, nor the relative item budget differences between those spots, all which are needed to disprove the demonstrative point.

For really. I think tiduz skimmed your post too fast lol! or posted the wrong pic.

"Spirit: The difference between a good wotlk disc priest and average one was very small."
"Tiduz: But I was number 1 on every ICC fight!"

[Modgudr]

Folks, just work with it in the context of what we can understand Blizzard's framework to be:

Blizzard does not want us spamming PWS. Full stop. No arguing about the point of "Disc" being absorb or whatnot will change that. What solutions are there to incentivize Disc priests to invest in mastery, given that condition? Zeuq advocates creating a new "shield" spell that would be the Heal to PWS' Flash Heal. And then start modifying talents to make it work within the framework of Disc. However, that is doing a lot of work for little benefit. Why not just make heal *always* apply DA? That gives us a cheap way to apply shielding on someone in advance using a high HPM but low HPS shield. It feeds into our other talents by applying grace, etc. There is the elusive other shield that will help our spec. Possibly allow a cooldown that would turn that on for all of our spell in critical moments, though one is hardly necessary, I would think, and one has full use of our mastery while also maintaining the undesirability of spamming PWS. Does that mean we will suddenly start spamming Heal instead? No... because it does not have the capacity, alone, to do what blanked PWS provided. However, it gives us a way to, during pauses in damage taken, to shield up one or two targets (say... the tank and off tanks) with a decent chunk of DA (four/five Heals' worth) that would be noticable, especially on the back end of a PWS.

Note, I make no statement about how to prevent holy from spamming PWS. I do not understand the holy spec well enough, in my opinion, to be able to have this kind of discussion about it.

[[-Spiritus-]]

honestly tho spiritus-
you are coming across really bad. not only are you defending a system that is imperfect, you have yet to legitimize any of the good points made by several. you are just being argumentative for the sake of arguing from what i can tell. i dont think the reasonable people in this thread are the "mindless one button spammers" that you paint them as. so far there have been several people who have made good points about the disc spec and its current state. you should really look at yourself as part of the problem and not part of the solution since you can't seem to respect anyone else's opinion. BTW kissing blizzard's ass in every post wont get you ashes of alar....

If I'm not mistaken, I have only criticized a playstyle and never the person. However, a multitude of others have slung epitaphs of various natures, from the benign "whiner" to direct physical threats; all of which I have ignored.

My point from the beginning is that the PW:S spam playstyle is irrelivant because it is against intended design.

Most people respond without addressing my very simple point. They either say, "this is how disc is suppose to heal!" Which in actuality means, "This is how I healed in WotLK" or "This is how I want to heal." Or they might say, "Disc is finally good, why nerf it!" When nowhere have I ever said anything about nerfing Disc throughput; among several other statements that completely sidestep the issue that PW:S spam is against intended design.

I am not "kissing blizzard's ass," as you so elegantly put it, but rather reminding everyone, including Blizzard, about the product that was promised when I purchased the Cataclysm expansion. In the simplest terms, my free time is becoming more and more limited and one of the major selling points for me to purchase the Cataclysm expansion was the "New Healing Design" that Mr. Street talked about in his blog. That is a product description. I plan to hold Blizzard to their announced product description because it is what I find more fun.

Now, if you prefer this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S_9t...eature=related over this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE6X-...eature=related, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, then I suggest you lobby Blizzard to change their intended product design to more your liking. I just happen to be arguing from a position of strength as the status quo is in my favor.

[Siri]

I'm starting to feel like I don't care what they do, just do something and settle for that design so I know I won't have a need to replace all my gear with new pieces because they decided to change stuff so much all the time.

[Chromu]

Honestly, the solution is far easier in my opinion.

Talent wise:
Improved Power Word Shield switches place with reflective barrier - IPW:S: 15% /30% absorption.

Atonement: your smite now heals up to 5 targets at 10yards from the target for 100% of it's damage.

Why?
IPW:S is the talent which makes holy benefit from a shield as good as discipline, since it is a rank 1 talent dumper for them. Changing it with reflective barrier would make it attractive more to shadow then to holy - which i suppose was the main reason to blizzard put a rank 1 talent for PW:S. In short terms, would end the QQ from the other specs.

Atonement: would make smite the filler for the main problem discipline has: aoe healing. Also it would mitigate the importance of PW:S in mana regain with Evangelism and Archangel. Also, Smite would become the "official" spam heal ability for discipline.

Mastery wise:
Discipline mastery now gives 10% for your absorption spells + 1,5% each point
Healing from damaging enemy improved 10% + 0,5% each point

Why? This would adjust the absorption problem and give the discipline priest a second way to choose, instead of simply bubble spam.

My 2 cents.

[Staplecrab]

Atonement: your smite now heals up to 5 targets at 10yards from the target for 100% of it's damage.

That would be kind of ridiculous. Maybe on 3 people? But even then it seems over powered.

[Deleted]

That would be insane. Even at a fairly low smite rate of 5k dps you're proccing 25k hps of healing there...

[Deleted]

The best solution blizzard could have done, the way I see it, is to remove the talent soul warding....

Sorry to say but that talent is the only problem in PvE here..

[MasterOfNone]

spiritus-
blizz doesnt need aproval from you. you dont need to mention in several posts (paraphrasing of course) "this is not blizzards design" that is not "blizzards intent" this isn't what was "promised in cataclysm". the game isnt made for just YOU bro- gg on mentioning it again tho in ur last post...xd

[Deleted]

If I'm not mistaken, I have only criticized a playstyle and never the person. However, a multitude of others have slung epitaphs of various natures, from the benign "whiner" to direct physical threats; all of which I have ignored.

My point from the beginning is that the PW:S spam playstyle is irrelivant because it is against intended design.

I am not "kissing blizzard's ass," as you so elegantly put it, but rather reminding everyone, including Blizzard, about the product that was promised when I purchased the Cataclysm expansion. In the simplest terms, my free time is becoming more and more limited and one of the major selling points for me to purchase the Cataclysm expansion was the "New Healing Design" that Mr. Street talked about in his blog. That is a product description. I plan to hold Blizzard to their announced product description because it is what I find more fun.

First of all you seeme to have plenty of time, trolling the forum all day AND playing WoW :-)

ANd how can you talk about INTENDED design without laughing about yourself...............

Blizzard clearly showed the have NO intended design at all when it comes to healer roles, especially priests.

They have ideas......many ideas...... which all turn out to be rotten at certain points.
And instead of starting over from the scratch they prefer to hotfix after hotfix often patching the complete oposite they patched 1 week before, leaving players with the legitimate doubt if there is any design at all or if they are capable of developing a game......

They have an idea and they FORCE players to play like they want them to play which is EXACTLY the oposite thing they promoted.
They said they want to leave every player the choice how to play, and its pretty obvious players have exactly ONE choice: To play the way THEY want or suck....

If any other developer of any software would publish something and then 1 week later publish the complete oposite and 1 weeks later does the oposit again he would be fired in a sec because of incompetence.

[Arcsecant]

I honestly don't see that huge of a difference in tiduz's parses. There is less than 3000 increased HPS from his holy shield spam spec and his pre-4.0.6 disc spec on H magmaw. His disc spec on feb 5th was 15578 hps and his holy shield spam spec on feb 16th was 18502 hps. The 3000 hps might seem huge but he recieved 3 innervates on the 16th which accounted for 90k+ mana and 0 innervates on the 5th.

Yes holy shield spamming is broken and obviously not intended gameplay as far as blizzard is concerned. Yes they will probably hotfix it in a week if not by tuesday. And yes I think someone who isn't spoonfed innervates will not notice a difference in performance between their normal PoH/CoH spam AoE healing of last week and shield spam of this week.

I honestly don't see this change lasting long enough to make me go respec. I loved healing as holy and that hasn't changed with this misguided hotfix. Not to mention I get shafted as far as innervates go. They all go to our GL resto shaman.

[[-Spiritus-]]

spiritus-
blizz doesnt need aproval from you. you dont need to mention in several posts (paraphrasing of course) "this is not blizzards design" that is not "blizzards intent" this isn't what was "promised in cataclysm". the game isnt made for just YOU bro- gg on mentioning it again tho in ur last post...xd

No. World of Warcraft isn't made for me. However, if you went to a restaurant and ordered prime rib, but instead got a plate of tripe [even though some people like tripe], wouldn't you be pretty upset? Or would you just clam up and eat the tripe at prime rib prices?

This is the same as Blizzard not fulfilling its intended design. They are giving me tripe instead of the prime rib I ordered. I am merely reminding them, and the other customers, that it is unacceptable.

[Ynna]

spiritus-
blizz doesnt need aproval from you. you dont need to mention in several posts (paraphrasing of course) "this is not blizzards design" that is not "blizzards intent" this isn't what was "promised in cataclysm". the game isnt made for just YOU bro- gg on mentioning it again tho in ur last post...xd

This isn't actually what Spiritus is saying. He's saying that spamming one spell (e.g. Power Word: Shield) is completely against the design Blizzard said they wanted, which is true. And Blizzard are the ones who decide the changes, buffs and nerfs. So if players are doing something that goes against the intended design it will get changed. The only 'problem' here is that Spiritus actually agrees with Blizzard's philosophy, so it seems like he is defending Blizzard, while he's just saying that he, personally, likes this direction and that no-one should be surprised by this, because Blizzard has said what they wanted to do when they first announced Cataclysm, and are now just following that.

[Deleted]

This isn't actually what Spiritus is saying. He's saying that spamming one spell (e.g. Power Word: Shield) is completely against the design Blizzard said they wanted, which is true. And Blizzard are the ones who decide the changes, buffs and nerfs. So if players are doing something that goes against the intended design it will get changed. The only 'problem' here is that Spiritus actually agrees with Blizzard's philosophy, so it seems like he is defending Blizzard, while he's just saying that he, personally, likes this direction and that no-one should be surprised by this, because Blizzard has said what they wanted to do when they first announced Cataclysm, and are now just following that.

Come on you know spiritus is just trying to justify his crusade against PW:S spam and trying to defend "his" way of fun....

Blizzard promised a shitload of things before cata came , and many of them never saw the light of day.........
IF spiritus realy cared about design and promises blizzard made (and clearly hes not), he WOULD be vocal about the many things NOT in game or designs that were abandoned.

But is there a post about fishing and how dull it still is despite blizzard saying it will be way more fun in cata, any posts about path of the titans , more glyphs, professions etc tec etc ?

No because he DOESNT care..he never cared and never will be .......he only pretends to care IF it suits HIS arguments..... simple as that.

AT least he could be so honest to admit that he cares about one thing.... HIMSELF ...... and stop pretending to speak for the silent masses of betrayed players.

[Ynna]

Come on you know spiritus is just trying to justify his crusade against PW:S spam and trying to defend "his" way of fun....

Blizzard promised a shitload of things before cata came , and many of them never saw the light of day.........
IF spiritus really cared about design and promises blizzard made (and clearly he's not), he WOULD be vocal about the many things NOT in game or designs that were abandoned.

But is there a post about fishing and how dull it still is despite blizzard saying it will be way more fun in cata, any posts about path of the titans , more glyphs, professions etc etc etc ?

No because he DOESNT care.........

Well, I agree with Spiritus that Power Word: Shield spam is a bad thing. Like I said, it is not fun and it is not challenging, but it is the most effective, so most people will play it, which is shame. And maybe Spiritus is overreacting a bit, but his point is correct. Blizzard doesn't want healers to spam, so they are actively changing things to prevent this. The recent change isn't the best or most elegant way to fix it, but it works. I agree with the goal (less spam) but their methods aren't that good.

And it's not because Blizzard didn't live up to a lot of things they promised they should abandon all the rest as well.

[Avalastia]

Let's be honest with ourselves. The way Holy is RIGHT NOW is perfect in every way. With the extreme mobiity of Discipline, along with the toolbox of Holy, we have a spec that is the jack of all trades. But people using logs such as Tiduz's log are misrepresenting the entire problem. Right now, the problem isn't shield spamming. For 10 mans, theres only a couple times I could EVER justify truly shield spamming (Nefarian Electrocute), and in that situation, whether the mana cost is increased or not, I will be doing the same thing. Because if Blizzard is going to throw a 110k, unavoidable AoE on my raid, by the gods, I am going to do everything I can to mitigate that so I have to play less catch up.

The issue is NOT bubble spam anymore, its the fact that disc has become COMPLETELY worthless and suboptimal. There is literally one thing that Disc brings that Holy does not, and that is Power Word: Barrier. Lightwell isn't QUITE as good, but I'm willing to substitute it for the ability to move and heal more efficiently than using our slow renew.

Heavy movement involved? Use PW:S. Standing still? Use Holy's ridiculously awesome toolbox to heal with its higher throughput. If Blizzard decided to leave things exactly how they are now, I would be perfectly happy. For all the whining about shield spamming not being compelling or skill-requiring, I challenge you to find a better way to stop your raid from blowing up during an Electrocute.

So for now, will I be shield spamming? No. Will PW:S be an essential part of my toolbox in 10/31/0? Absolutely. It has its place.

It's not like things were better before the PW:S buff. Look at logs, almost every fight was just spam Prayer of Healing, rinse and repeat. Instead of triage, we are switching to preventive healing, and if there's one thing we've learned, its that stam stackers are generally nubs, and avoidance is the way to go.

Sorry for the rant.

[ContentsMayVary]

I've switched to holy now, after years of playing Disc. There just isn't any reason for me to be Disc any more, not at the moment.

I do like the style where you can pre-shield people, but since now I am pretty much as effective with shielding in Holy spec, I can still do the amount of shielding I like to do (not too much, just tossing a few around sometimes when needed), but I can have all the other Holy goodness.

It's actually a revelation! I do miss PW:B, but Lightwell is an awesome replacement.
And I don't really miss Penance that much.

I would suggest other Disc priests give it a go: It's more Disc than Disc!

[dalliah1]

To all you new holy bubble botters, do you use inner will or inner fire?

[Sokaris84]

So simple to fix, that it hurts my brain trying to think why blizzard hasn't done this yet.

All they need to do is make it like glyphed Shadow Word: Death, so when you cast 2 shields within 5 seconds, you activate a 5 second cooldown. Problem solved. Have at it.