Changes I'd like to see for Fury Warriors

[Aurora]

Just some small things veering away from the whole "moar damage" area. Feedback and your own ideas welcome.

-> Intercept costing no rage.

With reduced stun comes considerable less worth for this and the rage cost should reflect this. Potentially even while intercept and charge and sharing cooldowns anyway maybe even remove intercept altogether and make charge usable in berserker stance in battle? It'd nice to be able to have an opener for rage gen and not having to be rage penalised anytime we use a gap closer in PvE.

-> Death Wish costing no rage.

This is a buffing cooldown, why is this costing rage in the first place when recklessness isn't?

-> Whirlwind reduced rage cost.

There's very limited times where using whirlwind is actually a viable and smart thing to do and during those times I don't think you should have the penalty of rage starvation over your head preventing you from using it. Buffing its damage is fine but reducing its rage cost would be better, its a major problem to do aoe as Fury right now.

-> Minor Glyph - Transform into a Tanuka during Death Wish.

A lot of other classes have fun cosmetic changes that can be glyphed, I think something like that would be pretty cool!

[Gatsu]

- Intercept becoming Fury's "charge", giving rage instead of costing
- Higher enrage proc chance
- Death Wish 2 min cd (to match trinkets :P )
- Threat dump

and I'm up for some cosmetic glyph aswell ;D

[professorn]

i agree cosmetic changes would be really cool. but im happy at least our minor glyphs have some sort of usefullness, ALL paladin minors reduce mana cost of something by 50%. thats boring as shit. also i dont find aoeing to be a problem on my warrior ^^

[Aurora]

Threat dump is a good one, yeah. I wonder with the change that interrupts can't miss are tanks going to be taking even less hit rating than they are currently which could be a problem for threat.

[Soulsmash]

These threads often times confuse me; why ask for stuff that just makes our class easier/more op? You know it won't happen. You know it won't be balanced.

I love the idea of a free Death Wish - hell, if we're wishing for death we really shouldn't have to pay much.

The idea of a reduce rage WW intrigues me when coupled with the 4.1 changes. Ever try to AoE heroic Maloriak's adds? Yeah, we don't do so hot even with inner rage + cleave spam. We're rage starved often and WW doesn't even do that much damage. So with a reduced CD on WW when we are hitting a ton of targets, it only makes sense to reduce the rage cost to actually take advantage of that reduced CD. That reduced rage could be throw into the Meat Cleaver talent. Let it reduce rage costs of Cleave and WW by x/y/z in addition to its damage bonus.

You know, that got me thinking - what if we had a mechanic somewhat similar to chakra states? Now, I don't have a priest so I'm only guessing what it's like but imagine if Meat Cleaver got super-buffed but came at a cost - our single target damage. So when we get Meat Cleaver to 3 stacks we're this crazed AoE machine but our single target abilities like BT, RB, and Slam take a x%/y%/z% damage nerf. That way we could shift from single target --> AoE mode with Cleave/WW having increased damage, reduced CD on WW, and reduced rage cost on both during add phases --> back to single target once Meat Cleaver wears off. Seems like an interesting yet balanced (because we gain something while simultaneously losing something else) ability.

I just don't see the point in some of these changes; a threat dump? Really? Why the heck would a raging berserker who is blinded by fury possibly want to dump threat? He is reckless by nature, not a sneaky rogue or fleeting cat. Let me guess, the warrior community will want stealth next? Lame. Give me something that makes me even more reckless and fueled by destructive instincts.

The idea of cosmetic changes is great! I think that would be something fun and completely non-gamebreaking that all classes should have access to. Give us tons of options of what to transform into or what graphic to have when we pop DW/Reck. Imagine if Paladins could change their wings graphic slightly? Very cool idea!

If intercept were to cost no rage, I would want to see it do no damage. In which case it ought to just be Charge.

Higher enrage uptime? What? Between the Enrage proc, Death Wish, and Berserker Rage, you actually want more uptime? More uptime would be pushing it closer to a baseline, which isn't interesting at all. I vote no on this proposition.

[Swaggah]

I just don't see the point in some of these changes; a threat dump? Really? Why the heck would a raging berserker who is blinded by fury possibly want to dump threat? He is reckless by nature, not a sneaky rogue or fleeting cat. Let me guess, the warrior community will want stealth next? Lame. Give me something that makes me even more reckless and fueled by destructive instincts.

The idea of cosmetic changes is great! I think that would be something fun and completely non-gamebreaking that all classes should have access to. Give us tons of options of what to transform into or what graphic to have when we pop DW/Reck. Imagine if Paladins could change their wings graphic slightly? Very cool idea!

You serious? Why we want a threat dump is because we're sitting at a 70-80% threat and the tank misses 1 bloody shield slap, we proc cd's and boom. You're dead
However, something that would balance out gameplay overall is not something you'd like to see, but comsmetic changes that benefits none. Is something you'd want to see?



Intercept should be removed and charge should be useable in Berserker stance if its down to a 1.5sec stun, I dont get the point of intercept when it does exactly what charge does except it costs rage.
DW costing no rage would be nice at times, but I never really use DW when low on rage except for in pvp maybe. So I'll stay neutral
Concidering the CD nerf to WW with 4 targets or more next patch, I cna easily see that become tad bit OP? Not completely sure
About the transformation thing, I personally dont see the point. Since I dont care about cosmetical things int he game, however I dont see why not either

[Deleted]

-Just reduce the cooldown and rage costs of Whirlwind in general. The situational varibale seems odd.

-Remove intercept and make Charge usable in all stances and in combat for all. Instead, give Fury 115% passive run-speed named "Relentlessness".

-Remove Titan-Grip and allow Arms to retain it's flavour using 2-handers. Replace SMF with a new 31-point talent, preferrably a new attack or cooldown of some kind.

-Make Enrages trigger once you reach 100 Rage (with an internal cooldown ofc) , instead of some clunky RNG mechanics.

[Aurora]

I just don't see the point in some of these changes; a threat dump? Really? Why the heck would a raging berserker who is blinded by fury possibly want to dump threat? He is reckless by nature, not a sneaky rogue or fleeting cat. Let me guess, the warrior community will want stealth next? Lame. Give me something that makes me even more reckless and fueled by destructive instincts.

Good design is looking at what the class actually needs as utility first, then trying to fit it in with the flavour of the class. You can always warp a threat dump into something like some sort of shout that intimidates your target so much they want to stay away from you or some sort of "cooling down" from an enrage that acts like a salv. There's always ways to do it.

[Deleted]

-Just reduce the cooldown and rage costs of Whirlwind in general. The situational varibale seems odd.

-Remove intercept and make Charge usable in all stances and in combat for all. Instead, give Fury 115% passive run-speed named "Relentlessness".

-Remove Titan-Grip and allow Arms to retain it's flavour using 2-handers. Replace SMF with a new 31-point talent, preferrably a new attack or cooldown of some kind.

-Make Enrages trigger once you reach 100 Rage (with an internal cooldown ofc) , instead of some clunky RNG mechanics.

NO! I love Titan's Grip, Warriors don't need another reason to seem dull to new/other players.

Enrage uptime is fine as it is, IMO.

Removing Intercept will gimp Prot mobility, however I agree that Fury should have a passive movement speed boost on the same level as Ret.

[Gatsu]

I just don't see the point in some of these changes; a threat dump? Really? Why the heck would a raging berserker who is blinded by fury possibly want to dump threat? He is reckless by nature, not a sneaky rogue or fleeting cat. Let me guess, the warrior community will want stealth next? Lame. Give me something that makes me even more reckless and fueled by destructive instincts.

The idea of cosmetic changes is great! I think that would be something fun and completely non-gamebreaking that all classes should have access to. Give us tons of options of what to transform into or what graphic to have when we pop DW/Reck. Imagine if Paladins could change their wings graphic slightly? Very cool idea!

If intercept were to cost no rage, I would want to see it do no damage. In which case it ought to just be Charge.

Higher enrage uptime? What? Between the Enrage proc, Death Wish, and Berserker Rage, you actually want more uptime? More uptime would be pushing it closer to a baseline, which isn't interesting at all. I vote no on this proposition.

I can't see why I should stay always at the second spot in Omen while being 3-4th on the DPS.
Most of the classes can sync their CDs to maximize their dps, even at the start of the encounter, if I do so, I will die.
Then you will say: "l2p!", and I tell you that i NEVER die that way. But that's self-gimping my dps too.
Give some threat reduction in Berz/battle stance then, if you don't want a threat dump.

Intercept is gonna be the Fury's "charge in combat", so that's why I asked for that change, maybe yes, we could remove the damage portion.
I don't play Fury in PvP so I don't care that much.

For the enrage uptime, yes, bad RNG is BAD. We are the only class that can have a 1 skill rotation (for not that much time, ofc) if bad RNG hits us. Soooo much fun when it happens. And don't tell me it never happens to you, or I must say you don't PvE that much.

[Rosham]

-Make Enrages trigger once you reach 100 Rage (with an internal cooldown ofc) , instead of some clunky RNG mechanics.

This is what the original Inner Rage was, and it was awful and pretty much every warrior complained (to the point where it was being advised not to even train it), so putting this back would suck.

I agree that they should either remove TG or SMF, just keep us balanced around either 2 handers or 1 handers, it will make most warriors quality of life in game go up as they won't have to worry about every patch changing spec, re-enchanting weapons with landslide, and all the reforging that generally comes with gaining/loosing that stat budget.

Having a passive run speed fits with the Fury style that Blizzard have stated - the drunken, half clothed warrior that recklessly attacks things.

[jaimelannister]

I wonder with the change that interrupts can't miss are tanks going to be taking even less hit rating than they are currently which could be a problem for threat.

Where did you see this change?

[Rosham]

Front page, blue post on the 4.1 notes

Classes: General
All non-damaging interrupts off the global cooldown will now always hit the target. This includes Pummel, Shield Bash, Kick, Mind Freeze, Rebuke, Skull Bash, Counterspell, Wind Shear, Solar Beam, Silencing Shot, and related player pet abilities.

[Gunmoku]

I do like the changes you propose, Aurora, but I've always had a more full-blown revamp to Fury warriors in mind. Troll if you will, but I think this revamp could add some spice to warriors (keep in mind these numbers are rough guesses and are meant to be for level 85):

Berserker Rage (new version):
(This new ability will likely be a "side talent" on the 31'st point of the Fury tree next to Titan's Grip, and will require Titan's Grip to spec into. This also replaces the current Berserker Rage and Enrage mechanic.)
When the Warrior gains over 110 Rage, the Warrior will gain a 5% boost to Strength, Haste, and size for a minimum of 5 seconds and a maximum of 30 seconds. Enrage time depends on how much Rage is produced over 110 Rage up to a maximum of 150 Rage. Every 3 points of Mastery boosts the percentage of Strength gained by 1%. While in this Enraged state, the Warrior will gain access to the following abilities:

Heavy Cleave:
(Replaces the normal Cleave)
Requires an Axe in the main hand. Cleaves the target for X% Weapon Damage + base X damage (base damage increased 1% per 3 Mastery) and hits up to a maximum of 5 nearby targets within a range of 15 yards for 125% Weapon damage. All targets caught within this cleave are interrupted and your primary target is stunned and interrupted for 0.5 seconds. 5 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Heroic Strike.

Improved Whirlwind:
(Replaces Whirlwind)
The Warrior begins to spin wildly, doing X% weapon damage every 0.75 seconds to all targets within 10 yards for 3 seconds. Base damage is increased 1% per 3 Mastery. (This is essentially Bladestorm Lite.)

Skullcracker:
(Replaces Cleave)
Requires a Mace in the main hand. Creates a shockwave (10 yards long, approx. 8 yards wide at the end-point) in front of the Warrior that will strike all targets within a range of 10 yards for X% Weapon Damage + base X Damage. Base damage is improved 1% per 3 Mastery. A maximum of 3 targets caught within the shockwave are Knocked Down, interrupting all spells cast for 1 second. 20 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Heroic Strike.

Bull Rush:
(Replaces Intercept)
40 yard max range, 15 yard min. range. Rams the target for 110% Weapon Damage and knocks them back 5 yards. (The knock-back does not freeze the target up entirely, like Charge does now, all it will do is knock them back like Hurricane.) All spells cast are interrupted for 3 secs.

[Deleted]

I do like the changes you propose, Aurora, but I've always had a more full-blown revamp to Fury warriors in mind. Troll if you will, but I think this revamp could add some spice to warriors (keep in mind these numbers are rough guesses and are meant to be for level 85):

Berserker Rage (new version):
(This new ability will likely be a "side talent" on the 31'st point of the Fury tree next to Titan's Grip, and will require Titan's Grip to spec into. This also replaces the current Berserker Rage and Enrage mechanic.)
When the Warrior gains over 110 Rage, the Warrior will gain a 5% boost to Strength, Haste, and size for a minimum of 5 seconds and a maximum of 30 seconds. Enrage time depends on how much Rage is produced over 110 Rage up to a maximum of 150 Rage. Every 3 points of Mastery boosts the percentage of Strength gained by 1%. While in this Enraged state, the Warrior will gain access to the following abilities:

Heavy Cleave:
(Replaces the normal Cleave)
Requires an Axe in the main hand. Cleaves the target for 125% Weapon Damage + base 2000 damage (base damage increased 1% per 3 Mastery) and hits up to a maximum of 5 nearby targets within a range of 15 yards for 125% Weapon damage. All targets caught within this cleave are interrupted and stunned for 0.5 seconds. 3 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Heroic Strike.

Improved Whirlwind:
(Replaces Whirlwind)
The Warrior begins to spin wildly, doing 150% weapon damage every 0.75 seconds to all targets within 10 yards for 3 seconds. Base damage is increased 1% per 3 Mastery. (This is essentially Bladestorm Lite.)

Skullcracker:
(Replaces Cleave)
Requires a Mace in the main hand. Creates a shockwave (10 yards long, approx. 8 yards wide at the end-point) in front of the Warrior that will strike all targets within a range of 10 yards for 150% Weapon Damage + base 2000 Damage. Base damage is improved 1% per 3 Mastery. All targets caught within the shockwave are Knocked Down, interrupting all spells cast for 2 seconds. 20 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Heroic Strike.

Bull Rush:
(Replaces Intercept)
40 yard max range, 15 yard min. range. Rams the target for 110% Weapon Damage and knocks them back 5 yards. All spells cast are interrupted for 3 secs.

Terrible suggestions.

No more axe/sword/mace spec, this was crap in vanilla and it would be crap now. Why is Bull Rush even necessary?

[Gatsu]

Berserker Rage (new version):
(This new ability will likely be a "side talent" on the 31'st point of the Fury tree next to Titan's Grip, and will require Titan's Grip to spec into. This also replaces the current Berserker Rage and Enrage mechanic.)
When the Warrior gains over 110 Rage, the Warrior will gain a 5% boost to Strength, Haste, and size for a minimum of 5 seconds and a maximum of 30 seconds. Enrage time depends on how much Rage is produced over 110 Rage up to a maximum of 150 Rage. Every 3 points of Mastery boosts the percentage of Strength gained by 1%. While in this Enraged state, the Warrior will gain access to the following abilities:

Heavy Cleave:
(Replaces the normal Cleave)
Requires an Axe in the main hand. Cleaves the target for 125% Weapon Damage + base 2000 damage (base damage increased 1% per 3 Mastery) and hits up to a maximum of 5 nearby targets within a range of 15 yards for 125% Weapon damage. All targets caught within this cleave are interrupted and stunned for 0.5 seconds. 3 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Heroic Strike.

Improved Whirlwind:
(Replaces Whirlwind)
The Warrior begins to spin wildly, doing 150% weapon damage every 0.75 seconds to all targets within 10 yards for 3 seconds. Base damage is increased 1% per 3 Mastery. (This is essentially Bladestorm Lite.)

Skullcracker:
(Replaces Cleave)
Requires a Mace in the main hand. Creates a shockwave (10 yards long, approx. 8 yards wide at the end-point) in front of the Warrior that will strike all targets within a range of 10 yards for 150% Weapon Damage + base 2000 Damage. Base damage is improved 1% per 3 Mastery. All targets caught within the shockwave are Knocked Down, interrupting all spells cast for 2 seconds. 20 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Heroic Strike.

Bull Rush:
(Replaces Intercept)
40 yard max range, 15 yard min. range. Rams the target for 110% Weapon Damage and knocks them back 5 yards. All spells cast are interrupted for 3 secs.

overpowered changes (3 secs cd aoe silence/stun lolwut, even more stuns and a knockback)

seriously, blizzard just nerfed our stuns and you come out with these?

also, we asked them to get rid of weapon specializations and they did it, why do you want them to come back?

[Soulsmash]

Gunmoku
Those are really COOL talent ideas, don't get me wrong, but they just seem OP as shit. I mean it's fun to daydream about it, but then my daydreams are also intelligent enough to foresee the inevitable nerfs to those awesome abilities.

I PvE exclusively in a 4/13 25man heroic guild (I should put my armory in my sig), so I know damn well the reasoning behind wanting a threat dump. I've basically stopped pre-potting unless I can get back-to-back salvs at the start of a fight. So no, I won't say "l2p n00bs" because I'm sailing in the same boat you all are.

Even with that in mind, I still don't think a threat dump is a good idea because it makes us too much like other melee dps. Yes, always being first to die after the tanks on Chimaeron sucks, but that comes with doing some pretty respectable damage. I don't know about you guys, but I do well on the meters in my guild. And you'll respond with, "But Soul! The rogues do respectable damage AND can threat dump!1" Yes, I know they can. But we aren't rogues and shouldn't want to be, imo, of course. I just don't want all classes to be carbon copies of each other, and giving out the same abilities to different classes is the first step toward that.

Cosmetic changes are fun, there's no reason not to have them. Doesn't affect gameplay at all, at any level, so why not? It would just take extra dev time, so I guess it probably won't happen.

I agree that Intercept is pretty dumb when you consider the fact that we already have Charge and they're almost identical. The big difference I see is that Charge generates rage and does no damage while Intercept does the opposite - takes some of our rage and converts it to minimal damage. I still prefer to heroic leap whenever I get the chance though.

You guys really run into the "1 button rotation" problem often? I can say, in all honesty, that happens for MAYBE 20seconds total during a 3hr raid. It's very rare, but it does happen. But it's almost like a blessing in disguise because those are the times that my rage slowly builds up and by the time I'm Enraged again I can do a relatively high-rage CSmash and unload a full rage bar into a blind dragon with no armor. Pretty fun imo.

Keep this discussion going! I love this kind of stuff

[Gunmoku]

Gunmoku
Those are really COOL talent ideas, don't get me wrong, but they just seem OP as shit. I mean it's fun to daydream about it, but then my daydreams are also intelligent enough to foresee the inevitable nerfs to those awesome abilities.

Well, like I said, the numbers are rough. I'm not entirely familiar with WoW's math, so I was just naming numbers off the top of my head. But you get the idea. Maybe to add balance, the Enrage could have a sizable internal CD so it doesn't trigger EVERY time or that when you come out of the Enrage, you automatically dump all your Rage back down to 0. Think about it, after going bonkers on someone after a few seconds, you're gonna run out of breath and have to recuperate. But I feel Fury warriors are a little under-played with their strength. To me, they seem like Barbarians or Berserkers. Of course you get enough adrenaline pumping through them, they're gonna get stronger if they keep swinging at something that won't die quickly.

Things like Bull Rush, I think, should get introduced because they're getting stronger during the Enrage. Of course what's gonna happen is the Warrior's gonna smack you in the face when he runs at you instead of just running at you to get in range to start swinging. The stuns + knock-back idea just comes from the fact I believe PvP is trying to orbit more towards CC lockdown rather than flat-out facerolling and hoping whatever you're wailing on falls over when you pick your face up off the keyboard. Warriors currently only have two full Stun-based ATTACKS (since Charge and Intercept only just close the gap and pop a brief stun), and both of them are only for Prot spec. If you wanna be able to stun an opponent, you gotta spec for Prot. Rogues, Mages, Hunters, Paladins, and Warlocks all have ways to stun AND damage you in all specs while Warriors don't. Opening up more attack options such as this would allow for more spec freedom in PvP instead of almost adhering to a specific spec. Not to mention a lot of these stuns have that little thing called Diminishing Returns. Eventually, it's not gonna do much except slow down the enemy instead of stopping them cold.

The weapon specialization isn't really a specialization, so to speak. It's just an extra layer of customization to decide on which attack to use during Enrage. The main idea for this came from the new Unholy DK mechanic with the transforming Ghoul or the Warlock Demon Form spell. If pets and casters can do it, why can't melee users?

Also, I re-worded some of my original suggested post as I was studying other stun attacks available to other classes.

[Aurora]

Even with that in mind, I still don't think a threat dump is a good idea because it makes us too much like other melee dps. Yes, always being first to die after the tanks on Chimaeron sucks, but that comes with doing some pretty respectable damage. I don't know about you guys, but I do well on the meters in my guild. And you'll respond with, "But Soul! The rogues do respectable damage AND can threat dump!1" Yes, I know they can. But we aren't rogues and shouldn't want to be, imo, of course. I just don't want all classes to be carbon copies of each other, and giving out the same abilities to different classes is the first step toward that.

The way I see it is this kind of homogenization of classes has already taken place to a large extent. Every class can interrupt now for example whereas in the past it was something only certain specs (like Fury) had and could specialize in and others like Paladins or Boomkins just had to deal with not being able to. Same with buffs, most buffs are a lot less unique now.
They changed it because some utilities aren't about being "unique" as a class, they're seen as necessary for enjoyable raiding.

In my books all classes should

-> Be able to interrupt
-> Have a degree of self healing
-> Have some sort of defensive cooldown
-> Have some form of raid buff/debuff
-> Have a way to reduce/dump threat.

There are things that should be unique. Manatide, spellstealing, traps, disarms, innervates these kind of things should remain class specific. But I definitely don't think spreading things like interrupts, buffs and threat drops across classes is a bad thing, I think its smart design.

[Aurora]

hmm what would people think about this change.

-> A complete mastery redesign <-

Our mastery changed entirely to a stat that replicates exactly the stat armor penetration. (tuned to some degree where 100% isn't possible until maybe the last tier but not kept so low that its completely worthless)

- Remove CS
- Remove the enrage requirement on RB
- Remove scaling from DW and RB.
- Gain a sustainable spec that isn't bursting wildly every 20 seconds, can still compete against high armored foes and isn't at the mercy of RNG for their rotation.