4.1 Heroics.

[Magisleeper]

The problem is not the difficulty, its how long it takes to complete one. After completing one, most people don't have the time to run another. Even with maximum geared, with no cc something like Grim batol takes 40 mins to complete fully. Blizz should at least add optional bosses or reduce the trash. Not to mention, the heroics don't provide much interesting lore anymore.

I will not argue that some heroics can take a long damn time even when I get that rare group that can handle chainpulling. I would have no problem with a reduction in trash to speed things up without nerfing the boss mechanics. Honestly when I am gearing up some of my alts I wince when I see deadmines load screen pop up because its a friggin 2 part heroic.

But also optional bosses caused thier own problem (see halls of origination) everyone skips them and you cant requeue in LFD to finish off those other 3. I have no problem with a speed boost, less trash, etc. Just dont make my healing whackamole, my tanking just being a meatshield, or my deeps able to kill the boss before I even see all his abilities.

[CrunkJuice5]

Serious Raiders are horrible basement shut ins with no life... look, i can make generalizations too.

i dont think what i put was a generalization,show me a casual raiding guild where there members dont complain about raids being to hard and pull the life card and there actually good progressed

ive yet to see one

[Deleted]

Eh. I couldn't care less if ZA/ZG were faceroll easy. All it would mean that I would get my VP/chaos orbs quicker and could focus on where the challenge SHOULD lie... raids.
Why do people want challenging heroics anyway? Sure the challenge is fun the first few weeks but once youve gotten your gear from them, they become a chore.
I personally have ran maybe 4 heroics in the last month or so since I finished my Tierset. I really can't be arsed to slog through them.

[nyhcjedi]

The problem is not the difficulty, its how long it takes to complete one. After completing one, most people don't have the time to run another. Even with maximum geared, with no cc something like Grim batol takes 40 mins to complete fully. Blizz should at least add optional bosses or reduce the trash. Not to mention, the heroics don't provide much interesting lore anymore.

I'm fairly casual. I only have one epic pve piece (assassins chest piece) and I'm not even remotely close to having enough VP to get another piece. That being said it is pretty ridiculous to have to wait 3 hours to get through two heroics(pugs). At this pace I may have a half set of epic pve gear by sometime mid summer.

[aldana]

As everything got nerfed from the 4.0 Heroics, I really do hope the new 4.1's are hard. And I'm talking 1 shot and your dead on the trash type of hard.
I found it pathetic that so many people complained that the current dungeons where hard.
Now I can just walk through aoe tank 2 or 3 groups of mobs at once in 90% of the pugs...

I didn't mind having to CC everything so I really do hope they make it harder than ever.
What's your view?

You want it hard so you can brag about the kills early on. I dont care if they nerf it or not, I mean am I really going to care 2 months down the line? do i really want to burn all my time on a instance that going to wipe because of 1 or more idiots?

quit your bloodclot crying and just play the game.

[Rogrux]

A really quick solution to considering heroics (and mostly the heroic queue) to be a chore is.. to.. make friends and run with them. a_a

[Aeriedk]

I want the challenge but I hate CC in heroics, in raids it's one thing, but I like to run heroics for some fun that doesn't take forever, good coordination and good CC in heroics isn't hard, but it waste too much time.

[Clevername]

i dont think what i put was a generalization,show me a casual raiding guild where there members dont complain about raids being to hard and pull the life card and there actually good progressed

ive yet to see one

well define 'casual' since I define it as someone who raids maybe 1-2 times per week and I know plenty including myself who raid 1-2 times per week and have no problem with current difficulties. I haven't cleared everything but am pretty confident that if I devoted the time and actually got in a raiding guild I'd have little problem. If you're a 'hardcore' then you should have cleared all available content otherwise you just play alot.

[Ayonel]

It's hard to tell who the trolls are in this thread. For good players, Heroics in Cata are easy. For raid-geared good players, they are trivial. But for the occasional players and the poor players, they can be pretty awful even now, when you'd thnk they should be easy for everyone.

I like a challenge, I don't mind having to work, but as many other posters have noted, if I log on to run a dungeon, then wait 40 minutes for the queue, have three wipes due to poor party members, then kick folks, that is all the time I have. I have moved beyond playing wow for 6 hours a day, so if i cant get a heroic done in 60-90 minute from logon to logoff, thats it. If you are saying that players should be willing to commit an unlimited amount of time to "daily" content, you have a recipe for a dead game.

If you really think that having heroics be as hard as they were at Cata launch is a successful way to continue WoW, take another look around your server and tell me where everybody went. Other than the big guild raid nights, and weekend afternoons, mine is dead.

I suspect that the motivation behind the changes being made in 4.1 is specifically to deal with the chronic problems limited time players have playing any multi-player content at the moment.

[Clevername]

It's hard to tell who the trolls are in this thread. For good players, Heroics in Cata are easy. For rias-geared good players, they are trivial. But for the occasional players and the poor players, they can be pretty awful even now, when you'd thnk they should be easy for everyone.

I like a challenge, I don't mind havg to work, but as many other posters have noted, ifni log on to run a dungeon, then wait 40 minutes for the queue, have three wipes due to poor party members, the kick folks, that is all the time I have. I have moved beyond playing wow for 6 hours a day, so if i cant get a heroic done in 60-90 minute from logon to logoff, thats it

If you really think that having heroics be as hard as they were at Cata launch is a successful way to continue WoW, take another look around your server and tell me where everybody went. Other than the big guild raid nights, and weekend afternoons, mine is dead.

I can empathize with you here, I enjoy tanking and healing so have 4 tank and 1 healer the times I have que'd up as dps it has been horribly paiful and I can't understand the amount of nonsense that goes on. I que as a tank heroic done in 30 mins tops, I que as dps 30-90 mins while playing 'musical toons' going through 2-3 tanks and 2-3 healers. It's really sad and I don't out gear this content by any means on anything but my warrior. It's just proper c/d usage and knowing your talents and abilities.

[Gahgoots]

I sincerely hope this is a troll post :O If they *do* what you request, everyone wil be bored of the new content in about 2 hours then be demanding 4.2 within the week.

Hopefuly the instance will take a while, preferably 45mins-1hr30 depending on skill of the group and gear. It drops higher quality gear and as such shouldn't be a walk over by any means. Screw the Wrath "I want insta-gratification with no effort now" kids. Give at least a modicum of a challenge.

I'm actually speaking from the perspective of an 'adult' who has responsibilities, and can't spend 45min-1.5hrs in an instance. It's not the difficulty that's a problem, it's just the time commitment. And, I know I'm not alone, as the WoW population has aged, and most forum threads seem to reinforce this theory.

And to anyone thinking my response is somehow giving casuals a bad name, again to reiterate, it's not about difficulty, it's just not having the time, which I hope many people can relate to.

[Clevername]

Eh. I couldn't care less if ZA/ZG were faceroll easy. All it would mean that I would get my VP/chaos orbs quicker and could focus on where the challenge SHOULD lie... raids.
Why do people want challenging heroics anyway? Sure the challenge is fun the first few weeks but once youve gotten your gear from them, they become a chore.
I personally have ran maybe 4 heroics in the last month or so since I finished my Tierset. I really can't be arsed to slog through them.

This is pretty much the mindset I see of all serious raiders, they don't care about heroic 5 man difficulty because they're busy raiding. They don't care about 'casuals' getting tier gear from farming 5 mans because they're in heroic raid gear. Chances are if you're one of the few people who has a problem with bad's getting welfare epics... you're not hardcore, you just play alot.

[Firedemon]

Heroics were hard in the beginning of Cataclysm when everyone going in there was in 333 gear. Wrath of the Lich King was the exact same way the first month. Then people gathered gear, learned the strategies, and it was much easier.

I have no idea where did you come up with something like that. wotlk heroics were never hard, hell quite a few of the glory achievements were done in half t6.

Or if you don’t want to gather the gear, just take off a few pieces of your epic gear. It’ll give the same effect. Still too easy? Take off another piece until it gets down to the desired level.

Huh? So people should cut off a hand or play with their feet to have a challenge on some "new" content.

Now about the 4.1 heroics. Right now on the PTR, ZA is almost the exact same thing it was BC, scaled to 5man with some very minor changes, so everyone who did it in BC will lol though it and then sigh at the "new"content. Regarding their difficulty ... seemed slightly harder than current heroics.

[Narivus]

I don't give a damn; need no gear for ms or os lol. But make them super fucking hard so scrubs can't get gear easily because 90% of pugs wipe in the current of heroics

That's a shame, really. Some of us, like myself, aren't bad players but have sub-par gear due to multiple reasons like: Guild falling apart, horrible server community, no guilds recruiting your class or just straight up declining you because of your gear, etc..

I think, at the moment, I am sitting on a 352 average item level. I have 5 or 6 epics (3 of which are welfare reputation epics) and everyone else has like a 359 item level or something along those lines. Ever since the top guild on the server transferred to another one, there are three groups of guilds on my server: Elitist douchebags, elitist douchebags who are horrible and should drop the elitist attitude, and guilds that do not raid (i.e leveling guilds and social guilds).

Maybe it's just my server that is this bad. I want to transfer, but I really don't want to pay any more for this game than I have to.

[Coar]

Challenging heroics are all well and good....at first. After awhile though...I just want my damn VP. I think most people fall into this category; its fun at first but once you've done them for a while the novelty wears off and you just want to get in and out ASAP.

IMO the people who want the game to be constantly challenging are the ones who play 14+ hours every day, basically living at the computer and would love it if you had to solve some super-hard elite level Sudoku or something just to log into WoW. I.E.the worst kind of fascist nerd.

why you hate me

[fews]

they're pretty hard. you can expec pug wipe-fests and massive QQ the first few days. ZG is 100% new, while if you ran ZA back in the day you will certainly have a leg up in the situation. Most bosses are the same with only minor tweaks (yes, the trash is just as brutal as it was at level 70). fortunately, the gong boss has been nerfed to the ground.

I just hope that getting the Bear Mount is about as hard as getting the volcanic stone drake. I'd love to have something hard to do on alts with guildies.

i've run it four times now with a 360 item level group, trash is very demanding and more than one wipe means no bear (this is when you're doing 16-20k on all the bosses and skipping as much trash as you can). you defiantly won't be seeing many of these the first couple of weeks. for instance, a lot of really brutal trash packs come at you running down ramps and the like, but they can't be CC'd while theyre running, but aggro you before they stop. getting it is about as hard as things like Headed South or Arrested Development were back in december.

[Deleted]

I dunno, I didn't like the BC model of heroics much. I liked in Vanilla the most people CC'd is if there were an extra pack, and they didn't have to be told to do it. Then again, I guess the only real CC then was sheep and maybe a stun-happy rogue keeping a mob off a healer, since you couldn't be in combat to sap/trap, and no glyphed fear...

That and I guess I ran BC heroics to death, forced CC is boring. Obliterating everything and healbotting a fury warrior "tank" is fun to me. I just feel that heroics should be something fun to gear up with, if you want hard trash to one shot you go raid. :S

You do know that you can sap when your in stealth right? People specced imp sap just to CC during BC.

[Grym]

and can't understand that running heroics in your raid gear makes it easier. Good on you. Now go sit in the corner for a few minutes while the rest of the class - you remember, the ones you like to put down to make yourself feel better about yourself - finishes their heroics with heroic gear.

Took an alt in full blues through Heroics, things might live a bit longer, but just as easy.

[Deleted]

You do know that you can sap when your in stealth right? People specced imp sap just to CC during BC.

The CC is in reference to vanilla, as per the note you couldn't trap in combat either. IIRC rogues in vanilla specced into a talent that caused them to have a high chance of remaining in stealth when sapping, although it sometimes failed so the group hung back.

[Ap0calypse]

I'll be facerolling through em in my 372 gear. Gimme mah mounts kk