Spriest Utility

[Deadlybonne]

i feel the use of utility hits hard on our dps, using utily tends to make us oom very fast. Using only a couple shields tends to put me in a bad spot manawise, escpailly when u need to move alot.

even with all our mana return cooldowns, i can run dangerous oom by using utily, even weaving shadowword death doesnt seem to offset it well enough. using shadowword death on cd and using utily regurly makes me oom

i would like to see a reduction on shields for ourselves at least, shields are so expensive to use, shielding ourselves against damage should not put us in a bad spot manawise.

[Astray]

Forums:
Shadowpriest: "Our Spriest Utilityis kinda low...."

Game:
Me: "hey, priest can you interrupt that one?"
Shadowpriest: "Nah, i put all of my points into talents for more d-d-damage!"


>_______> C'mon blizz, builts some damage points into other talents and include leveling talents so that maxlevel spriests can take at least their interrupt without losing damage.

[Arlee]

Forums:
Shadowpriest: "Our Spriest Utilityis kinda low...."

Game:
Me: "hey, priest can you interrupt that one?"
Shadowpriest: "Nah, i put all of my points into talents for more d-d-damage!"


>_______> C'mon blizz, builts some damage points into other talents and include leveling talents so that maxlevel spriests can take at least their interrupt without losing damage.

However Blizz said specifically when they were redesigning the talent trees that they want talents to be a choice between things because they didn't like the feel of "mandatory" talents. So basically if they gave use talents that increased dps and gave us utility those talents would be the mandatory ones.

[Shartadin]

It makes sense, both thematically and in quality of life, to switch the places of Psychic Horror and Silence. There's still a choice involved, but I'd give up 1 pt for Silence gladly. PVP specs are still separated from PVE specs by the requirements to grab PH.

[Crudelitas]

i've never seen a dps spec to give up on dps talents and spend points to raid utility talents, because they don't need to. they get their utility from trainers or at least on the way down the talent tree. (as far as i can remember that is. if i'm wrong somehow, correct me please.)

the thing is, when blizzard said they don't want any mandatory talents, i actually don't think they managed to achieve that. it'd be funny to let go of, say, imp. mb because you don't want to, or it's not needed. in a game like wow, mandatory talents will always exist, and after spending our points to those, we can choose between the optional talents. you see, when we spend all our points to those mandatory talents, we're left with 2 free talent points to, apparently, spend on phantasm or soul warding 2/3, hell, even 3/3 mental agility and 1/3 soul warding-1/2 phantasm. but having imp. ps as a prereq. talent for silence, leaves us no choice but to let it go. since as a dps spec, we can't skip any talent that boosts our damage and spec into imp. ps and silence.

if they just removed the prereq. for silence, i'd gladly spec into 3/3 mental agility and get silence, since, at least at the current raid content, we don't need phantasm.

[Vargur]

On ideal fights, I pull 22k dps with ilvl 358 (which is near the max theoretical dps of 23k something), which coupled with VE results in some 2k hps as well... not too shabby.

[Arlee]

the thing is, when blizzard said they don't want any mandatory talents, i actually don't think they managed to achieve that. it'd be funny to let go of, say, imp. mb because you don't want to, or it's not needed. in a game like wow, mandatory talents will always exist, and after spending our points to those, we can choose between the optional talents. you see, when we spend all our points to those mandatory talents, we're left with 2 free talent points to, apparently, spend on phantasm or soul warding 2/3, hell, even 3/3 mental agility and 1/3 soul warding-1/2 phantasm. but having imp. ps as a prereq. talent for silence, leaves us no choice but to let it go. since as a dps spec, we can't skip any talent that boosts our damage and spec into imp. ps and silence.

I think I would disagree... slightly. Honestly it is completely doable to spec into silence and still perform really well in raids. This for example: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcGoZZGMGdMkrd0fo

The only thing you give up is Veiled Shadows, which does make a difference but isn't a gigantic deal. However, because most raids don't actually need a spriest to silence things no one takes it really. But I do agree that there are absolutely more "required" talents than not required. So in that respect they failed. It's something I don't think they would really ever be able to get away from.

[Crudelitas]

well if shadowfiend was still the "mana regen only" cd it used to be, i'd totally agree with you. since we don't have to use fade everytime it's off-cd like melee guys do. but since now it's a big dps cd, you can't just give up on that talent :/

[Arlee]

well if shadowfiend was still the "mana regen only" cd it used to be, i'd totally agree with you. since we don't have to use fade everytime it's off-cd like melee guys do. but since now it's a big dps cd, you can't just give up on that talent :/

Eh... it's hard to say exactly how much dps would be hurt by this spec.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...um/damageDone/

My dps for the night there is 14,359. My shadowfiend did 5,748 dps on it's own. That is 40% of that night's dps. Which yes is big However, you can't do a simple calc to figure out how much not having the extra min off of shadowfiend cd would affect because you still have the Sin and Punishment talent which reduces the CD every time MF crits... So how much a dps loss it would be isn't very clear. I don't think it would work out to be that much. I'll run the simulation craft tonight when I get home from work to double check.

[Lerker]

i've never seen a dps spec to give up on dps talents and spend points to raid utility talents, because they don't need to. they get their utility from trainers or at least on the way down the talent tree. (as far as i can remember that is. if i'm wrong somehow, correct me please.)

the thing is, when blizzard said they don't want any mandatory talents, i actually don't think they managed to achieve that. it'd be funny to let go of, say, imp. mb because you don't want to, or it's not needed. in a game like wow, mandatory talents will always exist, and after spending our points to those, we can choose between the optional talents. you see, when we spend all our points to those mandatory talents, we're left with 2 free talent points to, apparently, spend on phantasm or soul warding 2/3, hell, even 3/3 mental agility and 1/3 soul warding-1/2 phantasm. but having imp. ps as a prereq. talent for silence, leaves us no choice but to let it go. since as a dps spec, we can't skip any talent that boosts our damage and spec into imp. ps and silence.

if they just removed the prereq. for silence, i'd gladly spec into 3/3 mental agility and get silence, since, at least at the current raid content, we don't need phantasm.

Not that I ever would, but you could also drop Disperse, or masochism.

[godofslack]

Really SPriests have limited utility.
#1 Fortitude
#2 MC (doesn't actually work AT ALL in raids)
#3 Shackle works for the tons of undead mobs in Cata raids
#4 A heal that can help with percentage based damage
#5 Silence (no one with any idea how to play a SPriest picks this up, not worth the 4 talent points)
#6 Fear (Sees some use)
#7 Offensive dispels.
#8 And the ability to resist 90% of damage

Basically, we have less utility than most classes.

[Arlee]

Eh... it's hard to say exactly how much dps would be hurt by this spec.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...um/damageDone/

My dps for the night there is 14,359. My shadowfiend did 5,748 dps on it's own. That is 40% of that night's dps. Which yes is big However, you can't do a simple calc to figure out how much not having the extra min off of shadowfiend cd would affect because you still have the Sin and Punishment talent which reduces the CD every time MF crits... So how much a dps loss it would be isn't very clear. I don't think it would work out to be that much. I'll run the simulation craft tonight when I get home from work to double check.

I totally forgot I meant to do that ><

* writes note to self on hand so I don't forget again

[Lucapa]

About that interrupt: it seems to me that interrupts are the mechanic that are supposed to guarantee melee spots.
AOEing adds seems to be the mechanic that guarantees ranged spots.
I know there are exceptions for both, elemental shammies for example, but i do think that is the way Blizzard wants to go.
DPS wise Shadow Priests are doing well at the moment and after the long overdue mind sear buff we are not a liability on aoe encounters like Maloriak anymore.

A word of warning though: Blizzard still balances with hybrid tax in mind, the current state of shadow priests in which we are competetive with mages and warlocks is not intended and will not last for ever either.
If you really, really want a ranged dps and already know that you will not heal on that toon ever go make a pure dps alt.

[Arlee]

I agree with your first paragraph Lucapa... I honestly don't believe it is ever optimal for a spriest to be the one doing the interrupts. However, there are various reasons why a spriest might find themselves in this position/some people just want to have that option. So it seems worth looking into.

Ima going to let your second paragraph go by though

[Kiry]

Mass Dispell, Hymn of Hope, 5% haste, 3% Party healing, replenishment, fort, shadow prot, reduce healing and leap of faith.

All of this, plus I divine hymn......and our damage reduction utility in shadow form has made me wanted in certain hard modes as well as Nef. Our survivability to continue to dps at the end of the fight compared to some dps is nothing to be laughed at.

btw - dont forget our fiend dps was nerfed this patch. bummer....

[stickyjam]

On ideal fights, I pull 22k dps with ilvl 358 (which is near the max theoretical dps of 23k something), which coupled with VE results in some 2k hps as well... not too shabby.

not quite the wrath healing numbers we saw tho

[Crudelitas]

Not that I ever would, but you could also drop Disperse, or masochism.

the thing is we're always critical on mana. not saying that we're having mana issues (pve wise) but we have lots of mana regen tools and we use them frequently during the fights. giving up on dispersion and masochism would turn into a total failure. (at least on this raid tier)

also @Arlee

write them on your sleeves. they vanish from your hand too fast

[Siri]

You don't have to drop masochism, you can just drop dispersion.
I never have to disperse for mana on bosses and I normally run with 2/3 MA as well.

http://wowtal.com/#k=a5FX__H2.ala.priest.

I wouldn't drop dispersion though, I don't use it for the mana but I do use it for the damage reduction.

[Crudelitas]

yeah on fights where you have to mitigate a lot, say chimaeron hc burn phase, dispesion is a must. so i just wait for blizz to remove the imp. scream prereq. for silence.

[Deleted]

You don't have to drop masochism, you can just drop dispersion.
I never have to disperse for mana on bosses and I normally run with 2/3 MA as well.

http://wowtal.com/#k=a5FX__H2.ala.priest.

I wouldn't drop dispersion though, I don't use it for the mana but I do use it for the damage reduction.

Sadly, dispersion is amazing for V & T, Council, Conclave, Magmaw, Omnotron, Chimaeron and Nefarian.