1. #36841
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinxz View Post
    I like to collect skins/WvW/sPvP and dungeons. I'm not interested in leveling whatsoever. For me, leveling is a waste of time since i already did it a few times.
    Then that's perfect cause you don't need to be max level to do any of that
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  2. #36842
    I think the 'you don't have to be max level' narrative is quite disingenuous.

    Yes, the game doesn't offer anything significantly different at max level compared to what happens before that.
    But having access to all your traits, your cookie cutter build, the best gear, all the dungeons and all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.

    I despise levelling in every MMO and at this point I just use my tomes for 40-80 because it's painfully tedious and I hate being artificially barred from content.

  3. #36843
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    I think the 'you don't have to be max level' narrative is quite disingenuous.

    Yes, the game doesn't offer anything significantly different at max level compared to what happens before that.
    But having access to all your traits, your cookie cutter build, the best gear, all the dungeons and all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.


    I despise levelling in every MMO and at this point I just use my tomes for 40-80 because it's painfully tedious and I hate being artificially barred from content.
    This /10chars

  4. #36844
    The Insane Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    the best gear
    Erm, wha? Gear is largely irrelevant outside of dungeons and even then it is debatable.
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.
    1) People kicking you out of dungeons is a people problem, not a game problem.
    2) It's literally not a game changer because you don't do anything different that you didn't already do in terms of gameplay. GW2 leveling is a contrived mechanism to provide the semblance of progression, not to build a layered foundation of gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    I despise levelling in every MMO and at this point I just use my tomes for 40-80 because it's painfully tedious and I hate being artificially barred from content.
    That being said, I do understand the psychological *feels* and I agree with you. I want to just be 80 and go do whatever the mess I want. Levels was a last minute decision from what I've heard and the game should have not had them. I would prefer if leveling was account wide and all characters you create are the same level you have achieved minus any traits you need to unlock with money/playing.
    BAD WOLF

  5. #36845
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    I think the 'you don't have to be max level' narrative is quite disingenuous.

    Yes, the game doesn't offer anything significantly different at max level compared to what happens before that.
    But having access to all your traits, your cookie cutter build, the best gear, all the dungeons and all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.

    I despise levelling in every MMO and at this point I just use my tomes for 40-80 because it's painfully tedious and I hate being artificially barred from content.
    That would be why they have tomes. If you've already hit max level, you'll fairly quickly accumulate enough tomes to help you skip a good chunk of leveling on an alt.

  6. #36846
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    I think the 'you don't have to be max level' narrative is quite disingenuous.

    Yes, the game doesn't offer anything significantly different at max level compared to what happens before that.
    But having access to all your traits, your cookie cutter build, the best gear, all the dungeons and all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.

    I despise levelling in every MMO and at this point I just use my tomes for 40-80 because it's painfully tedious and I hate being artificially barred from content.
    I've always thought of it as "max level opens more options, not more game styles" or somesuch.

  7. #36847
    But having access to all your traits, your cookie cutter build, the best gear, all the dungeons and all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.
    And I'm saying all those things are irrelevant to the game design. There is a reason why explorables are not all scaled to 80. There is only like 2 while the rest are 35-75. Being max efficient and being able to play the content is 2 different things. The game was designed for you to not be efficient but still be able to do the content.

    For example I've completed level 39 fractals in masterwork and zero agony resist. Not saying because I am good but because I knew what I was doing. I've done those fights so many times I knew when agony was coming and how to avoid it - of course I ran this in a guild because in a PUG people still have that WoW mindset where you need to be in all exotics/ascended with 50 AR in order to do anything, which is wrong (of course this is negated after a certain point, agony will eventually just one shot you)

    As for PvP everyone is on an even playing field so yea.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  8. #36848
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Erm, wha? Gear is largely irrelevant outside of dungeons and even then it is debatable.
    Irrelevant to you personally. Not irrelevant to a lot of people.
    Having a properly geared/traited/skilled group melt through an explorable in 10 minutes is a lot more effective (dare I say fun?) than struggling for eternity because people are wearing lvl40 healing power + vitality gear.

    1) People kicking you out of dungeons is a people problem, not a game problem.
    2) It's literally not a game changer because you don't do anything different that you didn't already do in terms of gameplay. GW2 leveling is a contrived mechanism to provide the semblance of progression, not to build a layered foundation of gameplay.
    It's irrelevant to game design but not irrelevant to the gameplay experience itself. As GW2 is an MMO you have to interact with a very large number of people in order to achieve your goals, which unavoidably brings with it a range of widely accepted/tolerated social norms. An obvious one being that you'll most likely be negatively discriminated against in Fractals (and to a lesser extend explorables) if you're not lvl80.

    As to your second point, you are gated from accessing certain dungeons, certain zones (in the form of immune mobs), certain traits and certain gear - by the game design itself. The above mentioned social 'gating' comes into play on top of this.

  9. #36849
    Quote Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
    I think the 'you don't have to be max level' narrative is quite disingenuous.

    Yes, the game doesn't offer anything significantly different at max level compared to what happens before that.
    But having access to all your traits, your cookie cutter build, the best gear, all the dungeons and all the zones (and not being kicked out of dungeon/fractal groups is also nice) kind of is a game changer.

    I despise levelling in every MMO and at this point I just use my tomes for 40-80 because it's painfully tedious and I hate being artificially barred from content.
    I have a blast while exploring in GW2. The leveling happened as a side product. I understand that you might not enjoy it but to say that someone is being disingenuous because you don't like to level is a bit unfair. I would definitely have preferred it if they didn't put leveling in the game because I don't think its necessary. It's an artificial progression. That said, it's not that bad. It may get tedious after your 3rd alt but there are a lot of different leveling paths and they have added the instant level 20's and the tombs to help.

  10. #36850
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    I have a blast while exploring in GW2. The leveling happened as a side product. I understand that you might not enjoy it but to say that someone is being disingenuous because you don't like to level is a bit unfair. I would definitely have preferred it if they didn't put leveling in the game because I don't think its necessary. It's an artificial progression. That said, it's not that bad. It may get tedious after your 3rd alt but there are a lot of different leveling paths and they have added the instant level 20's and the tombs to help.
    Rumors say that half way through development Anet wanted to scrap levels entirely but that would put them back everything
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  11. #36851
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Rumors say that half way through development Anet wanted to scrap levels entirely but that would put them back everything
    It would be really easy for them to bounce your level to 80 after the initial intro section. They could then balance all maps on level 80 chars.

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