cho'gall 10m normal

[Stealthedbear]

I never see posts on this, maybe our raid group sucks

For 10m cho'gall we had the following comp:

1 feral tank (me)
1 prot warrior

1 frost dk - we switched this with a second shadow priest as he said his dps was too low
1 ret pally
1 fire mage
1 shadow priest
1 survival hunter - had him spec in 2/2 entrapment

1 holy paladin
1 resto shaman
1 disc priest

Here's our log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0z...ses&boss=43324

For chogall we have never gotten him to phase 2. I tank him on the platform, while everyone stacks up in between the stairs and the middle of the room (about 20yds from the stairs). When he casts fury of chogall i go and kite the add while interupting it to the top of the stairs, then run back and taunt off the boss after fury of chogall. The two shadowpriests were both using their psychic screams to break MC the fire mage was using the dragon's flame and warrior was using shockwave, mainly. Otherwise, other than the crashes, the ranged stayed stationary, switching to adds when needed and melee stayed on the boss the entire time. I felt that after an attempt or two we had interupting the mind control pretty good. However, we would always get to 4 big adds, with a giant swarm of blood of the old gods. By the time we got to the 4th swarm, the dps couldn't dps them fast enough even with 2/2 entrapment. Is it that AOE dps isn't good enough? Or are we not pushing cho'gall to phase 2 fast enough? Just would like to know what's wrong and how to fix it. Thank you.

[Thaleia43]

We were having the same issue until we decided to 2 heal it. We put the extra dps on the boss which allowed us to push him into phase 2 before the 4th add was ever summoned. The most important thing is to interrupt the MC's and avoid all avoidable damage as 2 healing the fight is very stressful on those 2 healers.

[Potatowizard]

Two heal it.

[Herecius]

If you've got entrapment, then a survival hunter, a shadow priest, and a fire mage should have no issues absolutely decimating the bloods, even with four waves of them (heck, that combination of aoe could probably handle 6 waves or something). They need to have a second look at however they are doing AOE dps or something.

Remind your hunter that Snake Trap ALSO procs entrapment, giving you two stuns, not one. Many hunters overlook it and only use Frost Trap.

[furydeath]

DPS wise you should be hitting p2 with the 4th add up before oozes spawn

[huntera]

Pull Cho'gall more into the middle of the room, about right at the top of the purple star/circle or w/e it is, so your raid can get more up time on cho'gall. Line the puddles up so that every blood that spawn will have to run through the frost trap. Have your hunter lay snake traps, and put down a frost trap before the adherents die, so he can get another frost trap down while the bloods are up.

Overall it seems like you just need more dps, so having cho'gall closer to the middle will help that. 7.5 minute attempt and no P2 seems like the dps on cho'gall is going pretty slowly. Not sure why with a survival hunter, 2 spriests, and a fire mage you could possibly have trouble killing the adds though. I can't really say who is doing what wrong for AoE though..

[Esg]

If you make your mage get transformed (needs tb trinket and good raid coordination) it makes the fight A LOT easier. When the first add spawns he has to eat the shadow crashes the more the better (use the TB trinket to reduce damage) and will eventually get the corruption dot (you can also just stand in the pool the add leaves after the oozes are dead to get corrupted DO NOT DESPELL THE DOT). He takes alot of damage during this so make sure a healer is on him full time. You have to coordinate well and make sure hes 100% going into the transformation and he should be calling out when hes at 80-90% corruption so he can get topped off.

Once he transforms he gets +100% damage and instant casts meaning he can spam pyro all day. Healing effects lose 99% of their effectiveness so you can't heal him and he keeps throwing up so he needs to stand over to the side. At this point he needs to iceblock the first shadow aoe (when cho'gall absorbs a shadow elemental he does aoe pulse damage for 3 ticks) to remove the arm thats shadowbolting the raid and to immune the damage. From then on he needs to get shields from the disc priest for every new shadow aoe (can be between 2-3 shields depending how good your priest is, must be disc). He also needs to use the resist trinket every time its up for the shadow aoe and when its not he has to cast mana shield and get a hand of sacrifice from a pally (your raid has 2), the only damage he should take is from this aoe and with good coordination he can take less then 1k per elemental which lets him live the entire phase.

He simply stays on cho'gall spamming pyroblast 90% of the time and since counterspell doesn't have a global cooldown he can interrupt anyone without losing damage (can also sheep the 2nd if needed). You do however need two people dedicated to interrupting the mage incase he gets mind controlled. A DK can death grip him to interrupt it and the mage wont move. He can switch to adds when there at 50% so he wont pull aggro and when the oozes spawn he can blast wave+flamestrike and do most of the damage. This strategy takes some practice but lets you 3 heal it and you won't reach the 4th add. He will however die very fast once P2 hits and he needs to try and aoe the eyestalks that spawn before he goes down. At this point res and finish the boss using the throne tanking method. You need to use this strategy for heroic and im assuming its a lot easier to pull off on normal, although the corruption might take longer to get to 100% at the start.

heres a video but its 25man heroic which is a lot different but same basis for the mage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLmdRsMjWnA

[Stealthedbear]

We were having the same issue until we decided to 2 heal it. We put the extra dps on the boss which allowed us to push him into phase 2 before the 4th add was ever summoned. The most important thing is to interrupt the MC's and avoid all avoidable damage as 2 healing the fight is very stressful on those 2 healers.

Yeah a lot of people say that they 2 heal it. Don't know who to kick out though, none of the 3 healers have a dps spec or can put out very much dps... :/

[Herecius]

Looking over the logs, DPS is just very low in general... they need to pick it up. Mechanically, Cho'gall isn't very hard, but it is one of those fights which can be made artificially impossible with low DPS.

A random example of how your hunter can lift his DPS up: his Black Arrow and Serpent Sting uptime are both extremely low (57% on serpent sting when it should be over 90%, 27% on Black Arrow when it should be at least 50%), and he's not using Explosive Trap at all. Granted, you can't use both Explosive Trap and Black Arrow, but that's not an issue here since it isn't being used in the first place.

I can't really speak for other classes, not knowing them as well, but your mage's aoe seems especially low.

[darkhybridx]

Since you have the same setup I'm assuming I just posted on your Nef page lol

1. First off by looking at the reports your DPS as a raid is very low. This is a problem with Cho'gal groups. Not because of the players gear/skill, but more because of lots of time off mob from switching.

2. Here's a quick run through of what we do.
-Pull boss off throne and tank him near the bottom of it, DPS/heals stand on the edge of the center room circle, closest to the throne.
-When add pops up our 4 ranged switch to him, rogue stays on boss. Also remember to have any classes with DoTs refresh on boss first.
-Kill add in doorway, everyone but hunter quickly goes back to boss, hunter can solo first set of slimes.
-For 2nd set of slimes we have hunter/mage stay, everyone on boss.
-For 3rd set all 4 ranged kill slimes.
-Now Cho'gall will kill any big adds that are up when he changes to P2, but not slimes. Once a add spawns you have 45 seconds (i believe) before slimes spawn. With our group we can push cho'gall from 38% to 25% in that time so as long as he's at 38%ish when the 4th add spawns we'll simply tank him and have all DPS stay on boss and push to P2.
-If you're not that low then do the same thing and have all 4 ranged kill 4 sets of slimes.
-P2..... INTERRUPT INTERRUPT INTERRUPT (you'll understand when you get there)

3. A few tips for getting max DPS..... again. Like I said, having only the hunter kill the first set of slimes will help you get the boss down faster. Also like I said, make sure your mage and spriests are putting fresh DoTs on Cho'gall right before adds come out. Since the same tank will always be on the big adds, make sure you put the tank that does the most DPS on Cho'gall all the time, this will probably be the druid since he can go cat while the war tanks Cho'gall.

4. Your resto sham can drop tide 3 times during the fight. Remember that on bosses you don't use tide when your mana is low, you use it when it will put you back to 100% so you can use it again. I drop as soon as the first slimes come out, again off CD, then off CD again (usually during p2).

5. Corruption is another key in this fight. If people are over 20 before p2 then they're doing something wrong. It's pretty easy to go into P2 with 0, make sure everyone isn't standing where they're not suppose to.

6. BL makes P1 go a lot faster, but since P1 is the easy part of the fight save it. If you have to use BL to get through P1 then P2 is going to be very very hard for you. It's a bonus, not a necessity.

[Herecius]

Also, tons of people getting hit by Corrupting Crash, that's a big nono.

[Nivrax]

Also, tell your Hunter to bring Dragonhawk or Wind Serpent instead of Wolf. You are missing 8% damage debuff while having a party with 3 caster dps, Surv Hunter (~40% magic dps), Retlol and Attonment Priest (and on top of that, you have 5% crit from Feral druid already).

[Deleted]

I'm also a tank and my advice is: solo tank it.

I don't know if this tactics has been mentioned but I didn't see anything after scanning through the comments.

If you don't want to drop any of your healers, why not use only 1 tank? That's my guild's normal tactic. For our first kill we had 3 healers, but after that only 2. Having 7 dpsers for the fight is quite nice.

This is how we do it normally:
the tank starts tanking chogall at the base of the throne until the first adds spawn. He picks it up and positions it next to the throne (still tanking chogall). He then moves chogall to the other end of the room(the door) while dps kills the small adds. He keeps tanking chogall at the door and when the next add spawn he picks it up, moves it to the throne and goes back to the door wth chogall after it dies.

for phase 2 we move chogall up right next to the door to get all the eyestalks close to each other.

But what about fury of chogall you say? We have one of our dpsers (the former offtank would probably be your best bet) taunt chogall just before fury. The tank then taunts chogall back during the cast. Just make sure the dps doing the taunting runs out of melee before the taunt.

here is a video of our first kill (tank POV) : watch?v=6_vMzFGudBs at youtube (not allowed to post links yet).

[Milkshake86]

I personally did this fight very early in cata so we were blue bombers lol, this is the strat we used.

Comp
Feral Tank-Myself
Warrior Tank
Warrior fury
Paladin Ret
Mage Fire
Hunter SV
Warlock Demo
Shaman Resto
Priest Holy
Paladin Holy

Now we had 2 melee 3 ranged specifically to keep it somewhat even.

P1 non Add spawn
All stacked for interrupts on worships
Prot warrior shockwave etc

P1 Add spawn (Large)
Melee branched off to nuke adds solo at which time we position the adds on the stairs in a pattern to look like the 4th side of a 6 sided die.

P1 Add spawn (small) Chogall is positioned mid room to basically make short distance for first 2 waves frost trap followed by totem to double the slowing distance aoe wasnt nearly as good then however demo lock and fire mage were best you could find. Ranged stays on chogall till these lil guys spawn at which point they switch off and nuke them and melee is on boss maxing out the dps time on chogall basically. 3/4 wave kite chogall to the throne for max range.

Note: If you push chogall w/ a big add up it despawns little blobs donot.

P2 Burn phase
Make sure your killing eyestalks as priority this will make healing very very easy. Dispel excellerated corruption , make use of raid CD's and Heals i.e Hymn Tranq etc.

Hope this helps and GL!

[mugiwara1984]

i just dont get how you can not kill the adds with this lineup. if it really doesnt work with your casters currently (the damage of your mages and shadowpriests is much too low), just tell your deathknight that he shall help with the last addwave too.

but with all the buffed ae´s especially from shadow priests and hunters, the adds should really no problem. in our raid, the adds really die instantly.

make sure that not every single dps goes on the first two add waves. since two people should easily kill them allone, so the others can stay on the boss, to increase your dps.

btw, its pretty normal that you get a fourth add wave, with 3 healers. just like i said: if it just doesnt work, tell your dk to help with the fourth addwave, he can slow and freeze the adds.

i dont know what gear your mage and shadow priests have, but they should really pull more than this.

our ret pala, in average 359 gear, pulls 21k dps on this fight btw... i think your dps are a low, but the hunter and ret are "okay". the real problem is your mage and your two shadow priests.

its easily manageable with 3 healers, but you need even more dps, as when you two heal it... i think with your dps, even if you manage to kill the fourth add phase, you will never be able to get through phase 3. but dunno^^

[Illegal Alien Bro]

My guild had trouble till we figured the mechanics out.
We 3 heal it, and never get a fourth add. we got our first kill last week.

Then again all our dps is above 16k. Casual guild

We Ran
Prot Warrior <----Add tank Shockwave interupts
Blood DK <--Boss tank
Surv Hunter Traps<----add Control<---ASssist Tenticle guy<--Scatter shot MC too
DestroLock <--AOE stun<----Adds control+Large Aoe Interupt on MC<---also 100 Corruption guy<---Nukes ADDS and AOE is increased for Strong Add Control.
Arc mage <----Tenticle Guy <----Counter spell Rogue MC
Shadowpriest Add DPS <----AOE fear
Resto Druid <--Useless lol
Resto Druid <----
Resto Shaman <---------^^ Assis on interupts
Combat rogue <----Boss DPS---Helps push phase


Note: Tank Chogster on his throne when you push the final phase, all eye stalks spawn on the throne, Cleaves like our combat rogue work well here.
And its easy for the Ranged to pick them off.

[Stealthedbear]

i just dont get how you can not kill the adds with this lineup. if it really doesnt work with your casters currently (the damage of your mages and shadowpriests is much too low), just tell your deathknight that he shall help with the last addwave too.

but with all the buffed ae´s especially from shadow priests and hunters, the adds should really no problem. in our raid, the adds really die instantly.

make sure that not every single dps goes on the first two add waves. since two people should easily kill them allone, so the others can stay on the boss, to increase your dps.

btw, its pretty normal that you get a fourth add wave, with 3 healers. just like i said: if it just doesnt work, tell your dk to help with the fourth addwave, he can slow and freeze the adds.

i dont know what gear your mage and shadow priests have, but they should really pull more than this.

our ret pala, in average 359 gear, pulls 21k dps on this fight btw... i think your dps are a low, but the hunter and ret are "okay". the real problem is your mage and your two shadow priests.

its easily manageable with 3 healers, but you need even more dps, as when you two heal it... i think with your dps, even if you manage to kill the fourth add phase, you will never be able to get through phase 3. but dunno^^

Everyone has about 359 gear level. I think the lowest person in our raid group has like a ilvl 357 or 356. I think the shadow priests use mind sear, dont know what the mage was using.

[twinkleblur]

hmm you need cho'gall at about atleast 35% by the 4th add..what we did was have a tank pick up the add ignore it and burn the boss. hopefully if ur dps is high enough you should be able to push it and the add will despawn. also for the 1st adds after the big guy is dead we have 1 person on adds normally a hunter and he will knock off the slimes before they come down the ramp. then as more slime phases come you add 1 more. and the 3rd all of ur ranged.

[Rezusian]

In the simplest of terms, the dps is too low.

I would expect an absolute minimum of 14k for this fight regardless of class/spec/duties.

16k is easy to hit for all the dps and if they cant hit that you should probably look at rotating people out.

That is if none of the above strats help you.

[Fudruker]

tell your resto shamman to drop healing rain down the whole time and have him lightning bolt his mana all teh way back up the whole time perma healing rain is insanely OP in that fight