[Movies] The Hobbit Trilogy (Possible Spoilers)

[Gamdwelf]

The 13 dwarves are the ne who have accepted to join Thorin.

The purpose of this endeavour is to take back the gold from Smaug. Dwarves are rather greedy, but they are not foolish enough to think they could take back the city all by themselves.

The Arkenstone is still in the Mountain.

As for the timeline :

About 200 years before The Hobbit, King Thror (who is not named Oakenshield, that's Thorin's surname), escapes Erebor with his son Thrain II and his grand-son Thorin II Oakenshield. About 10 years later, he gives his ring (the last of the Seven) to his son and leaves for Moria. He is killed there. Later on, Thrain II, because of his ring, gets greedy and wants to return to Erebor. He is captured by Sauron's minions and taken to Dol Guldur. Sauron takes his ring. Gandalf enters Dol Guldur. Thrain gives him the key and the map to Erebor. The rest is related in The Hobbit.

So Thorin is more than 200 years old. In the movie, he looks like a middle aged dwarf, but in the book he is the oldest of the 13 dwarves(well, maybe after Balin). He has a long white beard.

Most of them do look younger than Thorin except like Balin and his brother.

[Fuiking]

The 13 dwarves are the ne who have accepted to join Thorin.

The purpose of this endeavour is to take back the gold from Smaug. Dwarves are rather greedy, but they are not foolish enough to think they could take back the city all by themselves.

The Arkenstone is still in the Mountain.

As for the timeline :

About 200 years before The Hobbit, King Thror (who is not named Oakenshield, that's Thorin's surname), escapes Erebor with his son Thrain II and his grand-son Thorin II Oakenshield. About 10 years later, he gives his ring (the last of the Seven) to his son and leaves for Moria. He is killed there. Later on, Thrain II, because of his ring, gets greedy and wants to return to Erebor. He is captured by Sauron's minions and taken to Dol Guldur. Sauron takes his ring. Gandalf enters Dol Guldur. Thrain gives him the key and the map to Erebor. The rest is related in The Hobbit.

So Thorin is more than 200 years old. In the movie, he looks like a middle aged dwarf, but in the book he is the oldest of the 13 dwarves(well, maybe after Balin). He has a long white beard.

TA 1981, the survivors under Thráin I followed him to the Lonely Mountain and the colony became the ancestral home of the King under the Mountain. By TA 1999, it became a Dwarven stronghold, where the dwarves became a numerous and prosperous people. In this time, the dwarves got very rich and amassed a large amount of gold, and treasure which included the famous jewel known as the Arkenstone.

The mountain was once again a colony, and its status as capital city was transferred to the Ered Mithrin. However in the later years they were involved in the War of the Dwarves and Dragons. As a result, in T.A. 2590 the now king Thrór, led a group back to the Lonely Mountain. Under Thrór's rule the Lonely Mountain once again became the capital of Durin's folk and they prospered.

It wasn't long before the great dragon Smaug heard of their great wealth, and one day decided to take their treasure for himself. In the year T.A. 2770 Smaug descended on the mountain in a ball of fire. He killed a large amount of the Dwarves living in the mountain. Most of the survivors fled to the Iron Hills, others went with the royal family into exile, and some simply went their own way.

The Lonely Mountain was empty for over two hundred years, save the ever vigilant Smaug who slept in the inner most chamber on a great pile of wealth. But while Durin's folk wandered from the mountain to Dunland to the northern Blue Mountains; they ever longed for the halls of the Lonely Mountain.


For a better Timeline, had to steal them from some sites. Got the Appendices though, somewhere, great source...

[SirRobin]

I got a little curious looking up some mods like Fourth Age for RTW and Third Age for M2TW and did some reading.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/War_o...arves_and_Orcs

So... Why is Azog in this movie? They've even got toy Hobbit action figures for Bolg, and he has plenty of reason to hate dwarves. So why have Azog and Bolg both in this trilogy?

[Venziir]

If that's the standard of doing it quite well, I wouldn't be worried at all.

.... Why is Smaug a cat suddenly? O.o

[Arrowstormen]

I got a little curious looking up some mods like Fourth Age for RTW and Third Age for M2TW and did some reading.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/War_o...arves_and_Orcs

So... Why is Azog in this movie? They've even got toy Hobbit action figures for Bolg, and he has plenty of reason to hate dwarves. So why have Azog and Bolg both in this trilogy?

Is Bolg confirmed to be in the movies too?

[Gamdwelf]

.... Why is Smaug a cat suddenly? O.o

thats just how he looked in that movie.

[Venziir]

Is Bolg confirmed to be in the movies too?

Yes http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bolg

[Arlee]

I don't think I would like Keith David as Smaug. I wouldn't be able to keep from giving little laughs each time he would talk because all I could think of is Goliath from Disney's Gargoyles. And I wouldn't be able to get the vision out of my head. As for Cumberbatch... His voice is fairly deep, but I don't know if it could be dragony. Christopher Lee would have made a good one. But I see them doing something similar to what they did with Treebeard. Doing some kind of effects to the voice to make it more dragony, since Treebeard didn't sound much like Gimli (who was the same person). But, we shall see how it is next year. Still pisses me off that they are waiting that damn long between movies. 5-6 month gap would be better, especially since they filmed all 3 movies at the same damn time.

Ah that's probably a good point He just needs to sound grand and over awing And yea... I am sad about the long wait times too.

Yes http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bolg

Dang work blocking every dang thing on the nets

[conscript]

Dang work blocking every dang thing on the nets

That guy you get a brief glimpse of in one of the trailers fighting Gandalf, that was Bolg. Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but if that picture attached to all the Bolg articles is Bolg, why does he look so Dwarvish and so not Orcish. Please tell me it is because he beard-scalps Dwarves and then wears their beards because that would be just incredible. Why are there no evil fantasy villains that collect the beards of the people they kill?

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 01:14 PM ----------

If that's the standard of doing it quite well, I wouldn't be worried at all.

Totally agree. Never been a fan of the old voice or animation for Smaug. Gollum, on the other hand, rules in that cartoon.

[Arrowstormen]

Yes http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bolg

Well then I assume it's because the Battle of the Five Armies needed more faces beyond Bolg and an army of random orcs/goblins/stuff.

[Stommped]

Anybody worried about Benedict Cumberbatch's Voice for Smaug should realize there is a thing called Voice Acting.

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 04:47 PM ----------



13 dwarves are the only ones who said they would help when Thorin asked all the dwarves to go retake their home. There are more dwarves they just dont want to fight smaug.

What war?

Heart of the mountain is still with Smaug, he took the mountian because Dragons just like gold.

its been 200 years since Smaug took the mountain, and yes Thorin Oakenshield looks similar because Dwarves live a long time so he is still a Youngish Dwarf

I was referring specifically to the war where the Pale Orc beheaded the King, Thorin later responded by cutting off his arm. This was after Smaug had taken the city in the mountain, so I had assumed this was a war being faught so the Dwarves could reclaim a new home, and the Orcs were simply just trying to wipe out the Dwarves.

[Panoramixe]

I was referring specifically to the war where the Pale Orc beheaded the King, Thorin later responded by cutting off his arm. This was after Smaug had taken the city in the mountain, so I had assumed this was a war being faught so the Dwarves could reclaim a new home, and the Orcs were simply just trying to wipe out the Dwarves.

That was at Moria, an old dwarven home they tried to reclaim but the orcs got there first. It was mentioned in the movie.

[Stommped]

That was at Moria, an old dwarven home they tried to reclaim but the orcs got there first. It was mentioned in the movie.

Yes but I was unclear what the end result of this war was? The Pale Orc was carried away but then what? The Orcs still were able to defeat Dwarves and take Moria for themselves? The Dwarves were able to take Moria and currently live there?

[Gamdwelf]

Yes but I was unclear what the end result of this war was? The Pale Orc was carried away but then what? The Orcs still were able to defeat Dwarves and take Moria for themselves? The Dwarves were able to take Moria and currently live there?

Did you watch the movie there were too many orcs and they fled.

[Panoramixe]

Did you watch the movie there were too many orcs and they fled.

Well the movie did say the dwarves won the battle, but it perhaps wasn't clear enough that there were too few left to take Moria as a home. You can't hold/maintain a huge empire with just a handful of dwarves.

[SirRobin]

Well the movie did say the dwarves won the battle, but it perhaps wasn't clear enough that there were too few left to take Moria as a home. You can't hold/maintain a huge empire with just a handful of dwarves.

Supposedly the one they show in the movie was the last battle during the War of the Dwarves and Orcs. Though apparently according to Tolkein, Azog lost his head in that battle. Not just part of his arm. I'm pretty sure Bolg shows up in the movies because I happened upon a "Bolg" action figure while Christmas shopping in Toys'R'Us. Doesn't look at all like his dad though. Was Mrs. Azog having a fling with the Orc Postman?

I understand PJ changing some stuff but it seems he's gone pretty far here. Changing not only who hacked off some of Azog but what was hacked off as well.

[Arrowstormen]

Supposedly the one they show in the movie was the last battle during the War of the Dwarves and Orcs. Though apparently according to Tolkein, Azog lost his head in that battle. Not just part of his arm. I'm pretty sure Bolg shows up in the movies because I happened upon a "Bolg" action figure while Christmas shopping in Toys'R'Us. Doesn't look at all like his dad though. Was Mrs. Azog having a fling with the Orc Postman?

I understand PJ changing some stuff but it seems he's gone pretty far here. Changing not only who hacked off some of Azog but what was hacked off as well.

The orcs' ability to breed and what exactly is meant with Bolg being Azog's son is never clarified in Tolkien's universe.

The fact that PJ made Azog survive and made it more relevant to Thorin and everyone else doesn't really bother me. I thought he was interesting for the movie, and probably will be for the next two movies. Since Bolg hasn't been introduced yet, we can't say for sure what role he will play when Azog is there.

[BHD]

If that's the standard of doing it quite well, I wouldn't be worried at all.

I honestly think he did a good job, he sounds clever enough and yet there's something deeper in his voice. I'd rather have that than lots of grunts and roars.

Yes but I was unclear what the end result of this war was? The Pale Orc was carried away but then what? The Orcs still were able to defeat Dwarves and take Moria for themselves? The Dwarves were able to take Moria and currently live there?

While others have answered the question I just want to point out that this is one of things that PJ changed. In the appendices Thror enters Moria by himself, while a dwarf called Nar waits outside. After some days Thror's head was thrown out with the name "AZOG" branded in the forehead, and it was after this that Thrain (Thorin's father) and the rest of the dwarves attacked Moria.

Something about the dwarves that the first movie didn't make clear: Only two of the dwarves in the company are actually related to Thorin. Kili and Fili. Probably why they were allowed to join at their age when they refused Gimli who was only 10 to 20 years younger.

[SirRobin]

The orcs' ability to breed and what exactly is meant with Bolg being Azog's son is never clarified in Tolkien's universe.

The fact that PJ made Azog survive and made it more relevant to Thorin and everyone else doesn't really bother me. I thought he was interesting for the movie, and probably will be for the next two movies. Since Bolg hasn't been introduced yet, we can't say for sure what role he will play when Azog is there.

I've been reading up on it and it seems like Tolkein was changing his mind about Orcs being descended from Elves. So it may not be possible for Orcs to have "kids," so to speak. If PJ is going that route then Bolg could pretty much be anything. Guess that's just another thing about the books that never quite sat right with me.

[Deleted]

Yeah it's Sauron, though the ghost which attacked Radagast could've been the Witch-King since Peter Jackson apparently wanted to pull of some jibber jabber about him being burried in a tomb and what not....

It was a morgul blade, it could have been any ring wraith. And i'm pretty sure i'm stretching this ALOT but he reminded me a lot of this guy http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Morgomir" from Lord of the rings battle for middle earth 2: Rise of the witch-king.

Also yes, the part of him beëing burried pist me a little of as a nerd nit picking son of a bitch that i am

EDIT:
i know the game is non-canon but it stil reminded me of him

---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 10:15 PM ----------

also, while i'm nit picking a like a moterF**** it annoyed the hell out of me when they called goblins orcs, there is a bloody difference for fucks sake!