Warriors and DK's

[Deleted]

I have REALLY had it with these classes, as a disc priest AND as a fire mage (granted fire mage is pretty weak defensive wise in PvP).

The Warriors

Warriors became less bad when I got more resilience so they are the lesser of 2 evils. Still they just keep pounding and pounding on you with extreme hits sometimes. They see me and it's like im a gazelle and they are lions. They Charge, then they start their faceroll rotation. Now at first on my priest I would not be able to survive sometimes, but now that I reached 3k resi, I can easily survive. I also would like to point out that it seems they have no cd on Charge/Intercept.

The Death knights

DK's, this class is a disease itself upon PvP. They slow EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA with chains of ice, chillblains and the aoe slow. When I finally get away walking with 1 cm per hour I then get deathgripped again.

Now all this doesn't really seem like they are a problem, but wait! There is more. I try to juke Flash Heal always, but that doesn't matter against Dick Knights does it? DERPSTRANGULATEDERP. On my fire mage they just slaughter me like you see a lion pwn a zebra on National Geographic when you were a toddler. When I try to damage them they just pop lollerantimagicshell and rape me in the ass.



Also for some reason lately DK,s and Warriors seem to have been following me even if i managed to run away. They just mount and run after me like I have chocolate chip cookies as loot. I suspect these are bots, but they can also be assholes.

PS: I forgot Necrotic Strike.



Also 1 cookie for who knows from wich movie this quote is: You would die before your stroke fell!

[asb]

Melee control does need to be toned down a little, but it's a pretty fine line to balance. Plenty of ranged aren't doing too badly as it is. The matchups you mentioned are mostly a matter of those classes being especially effective against what you play. Priests don't handle melee as well as other healers, and berserker rage/lichborne countering your primary defense hurts that much more. Mages get hurt by the recently reduced cooldown on charge, and deathknights are simply designed to kill casters. Playing fire certainly doesn't help you outlast them, either.

I think those classes are trash too, but the fact is they're just designed to be effective at a tunnelvision zerg playstyle. It has the side-effect of making them seem overpowered and skilless, especially in battlegrounds, but in organized group PvP situations they really can't do anything about your partner(s) while they try to squish you. For them to seem to have any balance, you need to have someone else to provide you with some support.

For your priest, if your teammates aren't helping you they're stupid. It probably goes without saying, but the guy chasing a killing blow down the road instead of keeping his healer alive is doing it wrong. Healers can't just tank damage-dealers indefinitely. There's not much you can do about that. You're mostly at the mercy of the random players you're grouped with while gearing up. Bring some friends with you if it's an option. In the case of your mage, it's probably a little more on your shoulders. If you're killed by melee a lot, consider trying a frost offspec. You'll have a lot better survivability and will be completely overpowered when there are no (competent) enemy healers around.



I believe the quote was Legolas in The Two Towers.

[Randoo]

First off 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, rated BGs aren't balanced. Also get teammates to help.

I agree plate classes are stupid faceroll and broken. And warriors have gone from fun and complex to complete faceroll CD popping ret2.0 crap. Also they naturally shat all over priests, sorry, Holy priests I think can fare well against a warrior with body&soul but disc has nothing to gap the distance except for charge jumping and pillar humping even then with heroic leap you'll get screwed. And firemages just lolspam any warrior to death easily with blazing speed and cheat death, I don't see how you have a problem with warriors on firemage.

TL;DR A warrior's natural prey is the warlock and the priest. And the warrior class is becoming dumber by the patch.

DKs is just a stupid class that has better abilities of every class in the game, end of discussion.

[eErike]

Disc 4set PvP bonus

[Strakha]

both easy to blow up if focused, just like.. any other class.

[GodlyBob]

First off 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, rated BGs aren't balanced. Also get teammates to help.

I agree plate classes are stupid faceroll and broken. And warriors have gone from fun and complex to complete faceroll CD popping ret2.0 crap. Also they naturally shat all over priests, sorry, Holy priests I think can fare well against a warrior with body&soul but disc has nothing to gap the distance except for charge jumping and pillar humping even then with heroic leap you'll get screwed. And firemages just lolspam any warrior to death easily with blazing speed and cheat death, I don't see how you have a problem with warriors on firemage.

TL;DR A warrior's natural prey is the warlock and the priest. And the warrior class is becoming dumber by the patch.

DKs is just a stupid class that has better abilities of every class in the game, end of discussion.

Would you like some fresh cheese to go with your sour grapes?

[biolink22]

First off 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, rated BGs aren't balanced. Also get teammates to help.

I agree plate classes are stupid faceroll and broken. And warriors have gone from fun and complex to complete faceroll CD popping ret2.0 crap. Also they naturally shat all over priests, sorry, Holy priests I think can fare well against a warrior with body&soul but disc has nothing to gap the distance except for charge jumping and pillar humping even then with heroic leap you'll get screwed. And firemages just lolspam any warrior to death easily with blazing speed and cheat death, I don't see how you have a problem with warriors on firemage.

TL;DR A warrior's natural prey is the warlock and the priest. And the warrior class is becoming dumber by the patch.

DKs is just a stupid class that has better abilities of every class in the game, end of discussion.

oh you mean the class that just had their survivabiltiy totally gutted and gets globaled in arenas, has less self healing than a warrior, and pretty much has to play completely defensively against any sort of melee because they are so rediculously squishy atm, yea they have the best abilities ever

[Deleted]

Melee control does need to be toned down a little, but it's a pretty fine line to balance. Plenty of ranged aren't doing too badly as it is. The matchups you mentioned are mostly a matter of those classes being especially effective against what you play. Priests don't handle melee as well as other healers, and berserker rage/lichborne countering your primary defense hurts that much more. Mages get hurt by the recently reduced cooldown on charge, and deathknights are simply designed to kill casters. Playing fire certainly doesn't help you outlast them, either.

I think those classes are trash too, but the fact is they're just designed to be effective at a tunnelvision zerg playstyle. It has the side-effect of making them seem overpowered and skilless, especially in battlegrounds, but in organized group PvP situations they really can't do anything about your partner(s) while they try to squish you. For them to seem to have any balance, you need to have someone else to provide you with some support.

For your priest, if your teammates aren't helping you they're stupid. It probably goes without saying, but the guy chasing a killing blow down the road instead of keeping his healer alive is doing it wrong. Healers can't just tank damage-dealers indefinitely. There's not much you can do about that. You're mostly at the mercy of the random players you're grouped with while gearing up. Bring some friends with you if it's an option. In the case of your mage, it's probably a little more on your shoulders. If you're killed by melee a lot, consider trying a frost offspec. You'll have a lot better survivability and will be completely overpowered when there are no (competent) enemy healers around.



I believe the quote was Legolas in The Two Towers.

Yes i see where you are coming from here, and i don't mean arena's to be honest. I mean BG's where as you said, i am depending on my random teammates. Warriors really aren't that big off a deal on my priest anymore, yet on my mage i can never get away from them, ever. They always have some sort of gap closer off CD.

And DK's yeah.....the class design is just awfull regarding anti caster ability's. They just put too much of those ability's in their toolkit.





And yeah you were right on the quote.

[Illana]

Warriors became less bad when I got more resilience so they are the lesser of 2 evils. Still they just keep pounding and pounding on you with extreme hits sometimes. They see me and it's like im a gazelle and they are lions. They Charge, then they start their faceroll rotation. Now at first on my priest I would not be able to survive sometimes, but now that I reached 3k resi, I can easily survive. I also would like to point out that it seems they have no cd on Charge/Intercept.

Charge has a cd, 13 seconds. Cast a heal, get interrupted and then mind control them if u want to remove pressure for a bit or force their trinket.

DK's, this class is a disease itself upon PvP. They slow EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMA with chains of ice, chillblains and the aoe slow. When I finally get away walking with 1 cm per hour I then get deathgripped again.

Now all this doesn't really seem like they are a problem, but wait! There is more. I try to juke Flash Heal always, but that doesn't matter against Dick Knights does it? DERPSTRANGULATEDERP. On my fire mage they just slaughter me like you see a lion pwn a zebra on National Geographic when you were a toddler. When I try to damage them they just pop lollerantimagicshell and rape me in the ass.

L2 inner focus, when you get less bad you have a knack of predicting when strangulates will come and can just completely negate their 1-2min cd with your 45 second one.

Also stop using 2 part shadow and 2part disc set, that got nerfed already. 4 set healing set means u can run at 100% speed for 4 seconds every 15 seconds.

[Calgron]

oh you mean the class that just had their survivabiltiy totally gutted and gets globaled in arenas, has less self healing than a warrior, and pretty much has to play completely defensively against any sort of melee because they are so rediculously squishy atm, yea they have the best abilities ever

Sounds like you're mad you don't roll with a healer. I'm a holy pally and run frost dk/unh dk/holy pally in arenas and the DKs have no problem surviving...they just burst everything to the ground(even beat the burst of a TSG somehow) lol

[Deleted]

Charge has a cd, 13 seconds. Cast a heal, get interrupted and then mind control them if u want to remove pressure for a bit or force their trinket.



L2 inner focus, when you get less bad you have a knack of predicting when strangulates will come and can just completely negate their 1-2min cd with your 45 second one.

Also stop using 2 part shadow and 2part disc set, that got nerfed already. 4 set healing set means u can run at 100% speed for 4 seconds every 15 seconds.

I use inner focus doesn't help 2 shits, its 1 heal then they do the damage all over again.
And i never used 2 piece shadow 2 piece disc/holy. 4 secs of free walking every 15 sec is nearly nothing.

[Deleted]

As a fire mage, you should accept that DKs your anti class. I take warriors any day as a fire mage anyway. Good BM hunters(like they are common) and Death Knights=youre dead if you dont ice block their cds.

As for priest, oh lord, i think they are so bad nowadays. Playing a warrior for a bit will cause the player to enter the Tunnel Vision state.

I must say that most of the warriors are really really bad players. Its sadly just the class who makes them climb high on arena(i have given up arena totally, its not even PvP for me) not the skills, as they tend to tunnel vision my protection paladin. There you heard it. Warriors jumps on my protection paladin. Its quite funny cause this happens twenty times a day when i do dailies. 20 killing blows aint that much but sometimes it can go up to 100 times per day cause they never give up. They think they are good. If youre tired of them, i suggest you to roll a protection paladin and drive over them. They will never ever avoid something shiny.

I dont enjoy my lvl 85 priest, i gave it up some months ago, but i do love blowing up targets with my fire mage and tanking tunnel vision meleers with my prot. If you get tired of dying, you go defensive. If youre tired of tanking tunnel visioner while youre team members cap the AB flags, you can go back to Fire mage, hide in a bush and blow poor targets away.

And oh: Sasuke. :/

[Dyrtnap]

@OP: Play FROST. Quit bitching. Profit.

If you refuse to play the one truly viable spec for your class then shut up and quit bitching. You wanting to be a snowflake has nothing to do with either of those classes being OP. The problem is just you being dead weight for your teammates and is why you have such HUGE problems with DK and Warriors though. I play Frost DK some people think its completely subpar but go and look on GOOD BG's (like Bloodlust) and roughly 40% of DK's are Frost at the top of the ladder. I'm lucky I get 2 choices because the best spec comes down to comp but sadly most classes don't. But you chose a class that has 1 extremely viable choice and not playing it makes you a bad teammate if your team is looking to be successful beyond the 1800's.

Yes DK's hard counter Priests. Anyone above 1.8k knows this. It isn't a revelation to the world. BUT if your teammates aren't peeling for you then something is wrong. Yes AMS makes the DK unpeelable for the first crucial moments of a meleecleave's rushdown and if a warriors there tough luck for a Priest. But you can usually hamper at least one member of the melee train.

There are things you can do though like run a comp with peels. Like get one of those Frost Mage thingies and then maybe those ninja guys and completely shit all over both of those classes. Now idk what comp you run but almost all comps can peel well enough to beat 50% of meleecleaves.

oh you mean the class that just had their survivabiltiy totally gutted and gets globaled in arenas, has less self healing than a warrior, and pretty much has to play completely defensively against any sort of melee because they are so ridiculously squishy atm, yea they have the best abilities ever

This is a correct and easily provable statement. DK's lost a lot of needed survivability against MELEE and are easy meat for PHYSICAL damage classes. But then again most other classes can be too. DK's need 1 CD against physical damage imo. I would take an extra 20 sec CD on AMS in exchange for a 40-50% Physical ONLY damage reduction spell or some kind of Glyph to bump Death Strike up into the 10-12% range if you've been hit with a melee strike in the last 5 secs.

Sounds like you're mad you don't roll with a healer. I'm a holy pally and run frost dk/unh dk/holy pally in arenas and the DKs have no problem surviving...they just burst everything to the ground(even beat the burst of a TSG somehow) lol

Obviously anything works in the sub 1500's where everyone has 359's and is dumb enough to run 2 of the same class. I'm sorry but anyone running that setup and LoLing about TSG definitely plays sub 1800 for sure and most likely sub 1500. I don't like calling people out like this because its not my nature but spreading misinformation and feeding the DK haters just annoys me. Actually this whole thread annoys me.

I play Frost ShamanHD at 2500 and when a TSG comes my way I pray for lube and hope for SLT. There is no amount of kiting and "self healing" that will save a DK from any DECENT TSG right now let alone Feral/Rogue/Hpal.

HPal's are pretty much as close to the fix for DK survivability as there is right now with how strong (nearly OP) their burst healing and is much of it being instant. Trust me when everyone get T1's next week you will see what everyone at decent ratings have seen since 4.2.

P.S. Hate to rant but this kind of thread/posts where the problem really rests in the hands of the player not class imbalance problems (minus priests vs DK and DK's vs physical) just gets to me.

[Deleted]

Dyrtnap: Have you even read the full post? Hes whining about priest problems and he admited that fire mages got survival problems. If you read my post before, arena is totally useless for me anyway. As long as high rating meleers attacks my protection paladin, i know for sure that arena doesnt require THE skills I WANT it to require for that moment.

Frost mage is indeed the best spec for arena and BGs, but i find it boring. I find every FOTM spec extremely boring and easy. Thats why i have two classes i bg with, a fire mage and a prot paladin. If im tired of dying, i go defensive. Its more enjoyable than specing frost mage and die of boredoom. What am i saying, its just me who finds it boring to kill everything without thinking, thread starter and others might find that spec funny. I suggest you, thread starter, to try out frost mage.
I cant keep the promise that you will like it if you want to think before you act..

[Deleted]

@OP: Play FROST. Quit bitching. Profit.

If you refuse to play the one truly viable spec for your class then shut up and quit bitching. You wanting to be a snowflake has nothing to do with either of those classes being OP. The problem is just you being dead weight for your teammates and is why you have such HUGE problems with DK and Warriors though. I play Frost DK some people think its completely subpar but go and look on GOOD BG's (like Bloodlust) and roughly 40% of DK's are Frost at the top of the ladder. I'm lucky I get 2 choices because the best spec comes down to comp but sadly most classes don't. But you chose a class that has 1 extremely viable choice and not playing it makes you a bad teammate if your team is looking to be successful beyond the 1800's.

Yes DK's hard counter Priests. Anyone above 1.8k knows this. It isn't a revelation to the world. BUT if your teammates aren't peeling for you then something is wrong. Yes AMS makes the DK unpeelable for the first crucial moments of a meleecleave's rushdown and if a warriors there tough luck for a Priest. But you can usually hamper at least one member of the melee train.

There are things you can do though like run a comp with peels. Like get one of those Frost Mage thingies and then maybe those ninja guys and completely shit all over both of those classes. Now idk what comp you run but almost all comps can peel well enough to beat 50% of meleecleaves.



This is a correct and easily provable statement. DK's lost a lot of needed survivability against MELEE and are easy meat for PHYSICAL damage classes. But then again most other classes can be too. DK's need 1 CD against physical damage imo. I would take an extra 20 sec CD on AMS in exchange for a 40-50% Physical ONLY damage reduction spell or some kind of Glyph to bump Death Strike up into the 10-12% range if you've been hit with a melee strike in the last 5 secs.



Obviously anything works in the sub 1500's where everyone has 359's and is dumb enough to run 2 of the same class. I'm sorry but anyone running that setup and LoLing about TSG definitely plays sub 1800 for sure and most likely sub 1500. I don't like calling people out like this because its not my nature but spreading misinformation and feeding the DK haters just annoys me. Actually this whole thread annoys me.

I play Frost ShamanHD at 2500 and when a TSG comes my way I pray for lube and hope for SLT. There is no amount of kiting and "self healing" that will save a DK from any DECENT TSG right now let alone Feral/Rogue/Hpal.

HPal's are pretty much as close to the fix for DK survivability as there is right now with how strong (nearly OP) their burst healing and is much of it being instant. Trust me when everyone get T1's next week you will see what everyone at decent ratings have seen since 4.2.

P.S. Hate to rant but this kind of thread/posts where the problem really rests in the hands of the player not class imbalance problems (minus priests vs DK and DK's vs physical) just gets to me.

Sorry but you want another defensive cd? FFS be happy that you annihilate casters, how do you even dare to ask for a defense against physical, do you want to be invincible? And i don't do arena atm (except for points with a rogue wich works very well)

You are just defending your class here (i can understand that) but i don't buy what you say. And i enjoy fire, not frost. I already said that fire has weak defense, its in the begin of my post.

Also im sorry but you blame me for acting like a special snowflake and then post this....

[Build]

All classes have their strengths and weaknesses. All classes could complain about being weak to <insert class here>. If you eat everyone else up, and the only problems you have is with those 2 melee classes, your doing good.

[Hollow Vamp]

melee control needs to be toned down? herpfrostmagederp

[Deleted]

melee control needs to be toned down? herpfrostmagederp

I don't enjoy frost at all and as such will never play it.

[Elrath]

Okay, here we go.

Warriors:
As a disc priest, you will die to these. Time and time again it happens, especially without a peel. If you're complaining about BG's, move along, it doesn't count. If your counting something in which is organized (RBG's, 2's, 3's 5's), get a god damn peel on the warrior, bar none easiest thing. I play multiple classes, one being a rogue. Easy, Shiv Crip, Gouge, let him use his Zerker Rage, tell you to fear after, Kidney, Blind, Sap, easy as cake to keep them locked down. Druids make it even easier.

As a fire mage, you shouldn't die to these. Jump the charge, hopefully you get enough distance he doesn't get a slow on you, Nova, make some space spamming Scorch/LB/Fire Blast/Pyro. Procs align use Combustion. When they heroic leap, Dragon's Breath. They will either trinket this, or Nova, in which case they probably charge you. Blink charge, they now have 13 seconds of being owned. Easy as cake.

Death Knights:
I'll admit, they are extremely overpowered right now. From a 3's perspective, DK/RShaman/Warlock is extremely OP and FOTM atm, but Frost has become the "new" PvP spec, and Unholy seems to have taken a dive. As a priest, there is not a damn thing you can do against a DK, and that goes the same for most classes. Your best bet is to spam heals on yourself, call for help, and hope it comes.

As a fire mage they'll probably win, but via skill you COULD take the win. Save blink for the Death Grip. ALWAYS. When they AMS, don't attack, just make distance. Chains spam will suck, but if you go Blazing Speed+CoC spec, you'll freeze them via Cone of Cold, and get procs to break chains. Try to throw out as much damage as possible while not getting caught in close. If you have to, Ice Block to dispel yourself/get free drink/eat off. I generally do something like Iceblock during a jump while kiting, invis, then go somewhere safe. If they eat, I feel its BS and unfair, due to the fact you can't do that in arena, then I usually /forfeit and leave.

[Marvdatboi]

If your losing to a Warrior as a Mage I'm sorry you just suck as a caster. Warrior get raped by rogues now for Ffs.