Thread: Holy Simcraft

  1. #1

    Holy Simcraft

    A while back I saw a post about running simcraft as disc, it was basic. along the lines of 'PoH spam for 6min'. It showed the throughput stat weights with infinite mana.

    Is it possible to do something similar for holy? Mostly I'm interested in which gives more pure throughput in a PoH spam with PoM and CoH on CD.

  2. #2
    I've run your sims

    Both CoH and PoM have higher HPCT than PoH. CoH has almost the same efficiency as PoH, but should overheal for far less in general. PoM can have significantly better effic.
    PoM on CD is only a throughput/effic gain if you're averaging more than 3 jumps per PoM.

    Basically, CoH is always a throughput boost. Whether or not PoM is a throughput boost depends on (1) how many hops it does between CDs (2) whether the fight encourages PoM to "hide" on a target that won't be taking damage (3) whether you wait for it to get used up or recast on CD. It's probably safe to just always recast PoM on CD (grudgingly admitting this one). If damage is low enough / consistent enough for PoM to hide or not get used up quickly, you're probably not going to be dumping mana fast anyway. Only counter example I can think of would be domo.

    Sanc, though, is where it's at. If you're stacked up in 25 man (23 of the 25 in the circle), sanc gets 30 HPM and 15k hps for its entire 18 second duration. In 10s it's pretty bad though - sanc is worth at best 12 HPM. PoH/CoH only get about 13 (<---- and right here is the main problem limiting holy's viability).

    As a side note, spot healing with renew isn't really a HPS loss for holy, but does represent a minor effic loss. spot healing with Heal is a huge hps loss and a significant effic loss.
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-09-20 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #3
    I maybe completely wrong about this, but it seems to me that sim'ing for healing is sort of inherently flawed. I mean doesn't a lot of it depend on what your other healers are and if you are healing in 10m vs 25m?

  4. #4
    there are useful things you can get from it. Questions a simulator can answer for us:

    What is my highest throughput cast sequence, and by how much?
    How much throughput do I lose by spot healing during AoE?
    What is my most efficient cast sequence?
    How do all my spells compare in terms of efficiency and throughput?

    These are all very important things for any healer to know, and the simulator can answer them 100% correctly every time. What it CANNOT do is model realistic healing behavior. You can get closer, but it'll never be right. So answering 'which stats should I prioritize?' is really hard using simulations. The sim will give you clues but you have to apply some brainpower to more difficult questions like that.

    Basically, the simulator can only give you unrealistic healing situations. Like standing still and healing through alysrazor's enrage for 6 minutes straight. Can you draw useful conclusions from it? Sure, but you have to be careful.
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-09-20 at 04:55 PM.

  5. #5
    It mostly interests me because as a holy priest healing in a 25man raid with my assignments purely on raid healing the time my healing 'matters' is maximum AoE throughput.
    I'd like to see stat weights for haste/crit/mastery over a 5min fight where CoH and PoM are used on CD and get maximum effect with no overhealing. and PoH is spammed as filler, hitting 5 targets per cast with no overheal. All that with infinite mana.

    Mostly it's just a curiosity thing, but knowing what stat weights can do in that situation allows me to more accurately tailor the gear I want as I know the benefits of each stat where maximum throughput isn't in question.

  6. #6
    That makes sense Zakaluka. I haven't seriously healed since Ulduar and back then I would always do the "what spell makes sense for what is happening now and what is going to happen next" kind of healing. So the idea trying to cast in a certain way for throughput seems odd... but then back then mana wasn't an issue ever.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    It mostly interests me because as a holy priest healing in a 25man raid with my assignments purely on raid healing the time my healing 'matters' is maximum AoE throughput.
    I'd like to see stat weights for haste/crit/mastery over a 5min fight where CoH and PoM are used on CD and get maximum effect with no overhealing. and PoH is spammed as filler, hitting 5 targets per cast with no overheal. All that with infinite mana.
    I can link you that sim, but the results will be misleading. Basically, since it has unlimited mana the sim will say hst>mst>crit but that's wrong. When you make the simulator limit mana it'll tell you mst>crit>hst. You'll be surprised how much haste stacking hurts your total healing done. Holy can spike up very high indeed, but when you OOM after 45 seconds if it wouldn't it be worth considering some efficient stats?

    Sanc eats tons of cpu time to model, since it hits so many times. The stat weights take FOREVER to calculate.

    How about I link you one with infinite mana, and one with limited mana? The one with limited mana stops using PoH when it's almost OOM.
    Last edited by zakaluka; 2011-09-20 at 06:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    I can link you that sim, but the results will be misleading. Basically, since it has unlimited mana the sim will say hst>mst>crit but that's wrong. When you make the simulator limit mana it'll tell you mst>crit>hst. You'll be surprised how much haste stacking hurts your total healing done. Holy can spike up very high indeed, but when you OOM after 45 seconds if it wouldn't it be worth considering some efficient stats?

    Sanc eats tons of cpu time to model, since it hits so many times. The stat weights take FOREVER to calculate.

    How about I link you one with infinite mana, and one with limited mana? The one with limited mana stops using PoH when it's almost OOM.
    Well I'm one of those that rules out crit due to wanting reliable and consistent healing. And seeing HW:Sanc doesn't scale with haste then it's not really an issue

    How far ahead is haste to mastery? Considering PoM and CoH aren't benefiting as much

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    How far ahead is haste to mastery? Considering PoM and CoH aren't benefiting as much
    They still scale with haste. Shorter global cooldown means you move onto the next spell faster.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    They still scale with haste. Shorter global cooldown means you move onto the next spell faster.
    I'm under the impression longer cast times benefit more from haste than shorter cast time.

    33% haste on a GCD gives you 0.5sec less of 'casting'. 33% of a 3sec cast gives you 1sec less casting? Please correct me if this is wrong though

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    I'm under the impression longer cast times benefit more from haste than shorter cast time.

    33% haste on a GCD gives you 0.5sec less of 'casting'. 33% of a 3sec cast gives you 1sec less casting? Please correct me if this is wrong though
    Actually, that would be 50% haste that gives you 0.5 seconds less on the GCD and 1 second less of casting on a 3 second.

    1/1.5 = 2/3. It's the same percentage wise, no matter how you cut it up.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  12. #12
    Well, here you go.

    From the perspective you're taking most of your healing comes from big aoe spikes. So don't be confused when the simulator values mastery over haste. That's only theoretical extra healing from echo messing up the results. Since 40% of that echo will overheal, and the sim can't account for that, haste still wins.

    http://home.comcast.net/~aaronvan310/holy/spike.html

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zakaluka View Post
    Well, here you go.

    From the perspective you're taking most of your healing comes from big aoe spikes. So don't be confused when the simulator values mastery over haste. That's only theoretical extra healing from echo messing up the results. Since 40% of that echo will overheal, and the sim can't account for that, haste still wins.

    http://home.comcast.net/~aaronvan310/holy/spike.html
    thanks for running that, i really need to figure out how to do custom healing sims myself xD

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    thanks for running that, i really need to figure out how to do custom healing sims myself xD
    Yea I could use that knowledge too.. guide anyone? <3
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