Guild applicants STILL not including logs?

[Max Rebo]

I'm not in a hardcore guild, but I do see the value in combat logs. I even upload some for our guild runs a couple days per week even though I'm not required to do so.

It's easy, too.

1) Get a WoL account for your guild.
2) /combatlog (in-game, to start recording)
3) /combatlog (to stop recording)
4) Start the WoL client from the link on their site.
5) Click on the big button that says "open log file" and then follow the prompts.

An applicant doesn't even have to analyze the combat log. Just upload and call it a day. Let the guild to whom you are applying analyze the data.

I don't really know how to use the expression editor very well, but at a basic level one can quickly see whether someone is using cooldowns properly, how much avoidable damage they're taking, etc.

We usually have a trial period for new folks to see how well they mesh with other guild members and to see how well they do in an actual raid. Many of us have been gaming together for 6-7 years, so there's something to be said for personal interaction. Obviously, hardcore guilds may have different criteria. My $0.02.

[Deleted]

Even if somebody is a good enough player to be correct in that a guild is lucky to have him/her app in the first place, it's a terrible attitude and one that would give me pause no matter how good somebody is.

Performance is way more important than attitude. You aren't gonna get kills with good attitude, but with good performance you will.
There's nothing wrong with asking to include logs, but when it comes to questions like "What do you do outside WoW?" and any other kind of personal information, it's where I draw the line.
It's no guild's business to ask what someone does outside WoW, nor what their real name and location/nationality is.
Someone's trade chat activity is none of their business either, seeing as this is being often stated as reason for many declines on some servers.

[Deja Thoris]

Jesus,

Just decline their app with "no logs as required" as the reason. This isn't worth a 5 page debate.

It's their guild. It's their rules.

[Svava]

I think it's worth posting a link to a youtube vid of how to parse.

They still wont do it but it just makes it even more clear who the idiots are.

[refire]

Performance is way more important than attitude. You aren't gonna get kills with good attitude, but with good performance you will.
There's nothing wrong with asking to include logs, but when it comes to questions like "What do you do outside WoW?" and any other kind of personal information, it's where I draw the line.
It's no guild's business to ask what someone does outside WoW, nor what their real name and location/nationality is.
Someone's trade chat activity is none of their business either, seeing as this is being often stated as reason for many declines on some servers.

I cannot disagree with this more. For the guilds that have strict application policies they're playing together with other members during progression for a lot of the time 25+ hours a week. If someone has a crappy attitude or is someone that I just can't stand and I'm suppose to be in vent for 25+ hours it will not be enjoyable at all.

[Deleted]

Do whatever you want but if you're looking for people saying you're doing the right thing you should look at your officers maybe.
Some just don't bother with registering on another facebook site, looka me mario so hard to edit them before uploading.

It's okay alot of guilds think they can ask for more personal stuff then the goverment when recruiting so youre not worst case but no not everyone considers this smart.
Especially if you just can raid with them once to check their performance.

[Deleted]

Performance is way more important than attitude. You aren't gonna get kills with good attitude, but with good performance you will.

Oh man I couldn't disagree with that statement more. I've been in a great (progressionwise) guild that was founded on that mindset.
They invited any douchbag on the server as long as he was a good enough player.

The guild was very effective while it lasted. It didn't last very long though. In the end the whole guild turned on one another and it all was a big ragefest.

While performance is nice I'd rather keep people out that would destroy the guild climate and only create trouble.

And no obviously you don't determine what kind of person your applicant is by his social security number. You just have to try to gauge the person like you would in real life. Good GLs make great head hunters too usually.

[refire]

Oh man I couldn't disagree with that statement more. I've been in a great (progressionwise) guild that was founded on that mindset.
They invited any douchbag on the server as long as he was a good enough player.

The guild was very effective while it lasted. It didn't last very long though. In the end the whole guild turned on one another and it all was a big ragefest.

While performance is nice I'd rather keep people out that would destroy the guild climate and only create trouble.

And no obviously you don't determine what kind of person your applicant is by his social security number. You just have to try to gauge the person like you would in real life. Good GLs make great head hunters too usually.

That's a funny point you make at the end. I watched that Blood Legion documentary that was on the front page of this since it was free and that was one of the few things that really struck me as odd. Coordinating on the scale that Blood Legion does which is probably over 100 characters when you include all of the alts and mains is one hell of a task. If in the real world you could project that to someone, it would be such a good thing to have on a resume. Possibly in the future with professional gaming growing we'll get to a point where the average HR person hiring understands something of that nature. Sorry it was a bit off topic from the thread but relevant to the post I quoted. Attitude and how well you can get along with other people is pretty important in progression guilds. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Paragon, Method, Premo, Vodka, Exodus, etc. raider that would say differently.

[Herecius]

Performance is way more important than attitude. You aren't gonna get kills with good attitude, but with good performance you will.
There's nothing wrong with asking to include logs, but when it comes to questions like "What do you do outside WoW?" and any other kind of personal information, it's where I draw the line.
It's no guild's business to ask what someone does outside WoW, nor what their real name and location/nationality is.
Someone's trade chat activity is none of their business either, seeing as this is being often stated as reason for many declines on some servers.

I respectfully disagree. If I didn't like the attitude of my guildies, I wouldn't be playing in my guild. Guildmates have become friends in this way, and because of that good mindset, I've gotten way more enjoyment out of my time on WoW by playing with people I enjoy actually playing with.

[anveena]

Deny them, because if they aren't able to follow a simple application how on earth are they going to handle learning new boss fights.

[Magzilla]

Deny them, because if they aren't able to follow a simple application how on earth are they going to handle learning new boss fights.

Mindless compliance does not correlate to learning boss mechanics, or the guild leader would be the worst player in the raid.

[Deleted]

I am _so_ glad the game never pushed me into the hardmode terrirory, in all the 7 years it stayed a fun time sink, and the length some of you go for that extra nothing is trully baffling. And the illusion that server turns head in awe at your sight, made my day!

[Herecius]

I am _so_ glad the game never pushed me into the hardmode terrirory, in all the 7 years it stayed a fun time sink, and the length some of you go for that extra nothing is trully baffling. And the illusion that server turns head in awe at your sight, made my day!

I think the problem some people are having is that they seem to believe that obtaining combat logs is somehow difficult or time consuming. It literally takes a couple minutes at most to set this stuff up. There's no big difficulty or time investment involved in getting some simple combat logs of yourself. Especially with the accessibility of LFR; even though LFR doesn't really show that you necessarily get mechanics, it does at the very least show some bare bones logs.

Trust me, I get the whole 'gaming shouldn't be working' mindset and I absolutely agree with it. But getting some simple combat logs isn't work; you probably spent more time logging into WoW and waiting for a blue bar to load than you would getting some logs.

[Gunslinger]

I've been from fresh recruit up to co-gm and on the best guilds on my server back when I was playing more for the "realm firsts". I have never placed a log into an application. If some1 wanted to see a log then they could just search on the internet about my character and find stuff for themselves. How you were does not reflect into how you currently are nor how will you be with the guild that you are applying to.

The best way to settle it is to bring that guild's best dpser/tank/healer from said class and face off into a competition (Target Dummy, 5man & Raid) and check out their performance in REAL TIME.

I would ALWAYS test my applicants in REAL TIME regardless of what their logs showed. I've seen a LOT of people with logs that would show them high up and when they'd come in raid they'd wipe us due to "forgetting" a mechanic or "2 tired to dps right". Not to mention all those "not focused".

Some people even tho they perform well may hinder guild progress because of the way they BEHAVE. I've seen some 12year-old kids that can pump the numbers but go bananas in a raid environment and piss off people.

And honestly, people who require logs instead of investing time to actually GET TO KNOW their applicants are taking this game faaaaar to seriously. Numbers can improve fast but personality evolves slowly.

[darkpower]

Jesus,

Just decline their app with "no logs as required" as the reason. This isn't worth a 5 page debate.

It's their guild. It's their rules.

So no one is allowed to discuss or debate the validity of needing them, whether it's necessary to ask for them in the first place, if the people who DO ask for them are just being too picky/elitist and are not worth the applicant's time, or if they are even as accurate as they are claimed to be? We're never allowed to discuss stuff like that when these things are brought up?

Seriously, this is WHY message boards EXIST, mind you!