Balance: Rotation, Talents, Stats ???

[Goodomens]

I apologize for all the questions but I am trying to understand the changes in 6.0.2 but it feels a lot like trying to throw darts at a dart board in a completely dark room.

Rotation:

1) It is a DPS increase to apply sunfire when you enter solar and at peek correct?
2) We only apply moonfire at pea lunar right?
3) We only cast starsurge at 3 stacks and on proc correct?
4) We only use our AOE at peak right?

Talents:

5) Which talent is an overall DPS increase FoN or SotF?

Stats:

6) Haste means nothing now right so we should gem either or or both Crit and/or Mastery?

Thanks.

Goodomens

[Batix]

I apologize for all the questions but I am trying to understand the changes in 6.0.2 but it feels a lot like trying to throw darts at a dart board in a completely dark room.

Rotation:

1) It is a DPS increase to apply sunfire when you enter solar and at peek correct?
2) We only apply moonfire at pea lunar right?
3) We only cast starsurge at 3 stacks and on proc correct?
4) We only use our AOE at peak right?

Talents:

5) Which talent is an overall DPS increase FoN or SotF?

Stats:

6) Haste means nothing now right so we should gem either or or both Crit and/or Mastery?

Thanks.

Goodomens

1) Correct
2) Correct
3) Incorrect. You use starsurge to buff your casts on the way up to a peak. It buffs your next 2 Starfire, or 3 Wrath casts.
4) Peak only affects the initial damage from your DoTs, nothing more, nothing less. For AoE, use appropriate spells as you see fit, when you see fit.

5) Incarnation

6) I wouldn't say it means NOTHING, but it's not a high priority. I have been gemming the following:

• Yellow = Fractured Sun's Radiance (+20 Mastery)
• Blue = Sensei's Wild Jade (+10 Crit +10 Mastery)
• Red = Artful Vermilion Onyx (+5 Int + 10 Mastery)

Hope this helps you somewhat.

[Goodomens]

1) Correct
2) Correct
3) Incorrect. You use starsurge to buff your casts on the way up to a peak. It buffs your next 2 Starfire, or 3 Wrath casts.
4) Peak only affects the initial damage from your DoTs, nothing more, nothing less. For AoE, use appropriate spells as you see fit, when you see fit.

5) Incarnation

6) I wouldn't say it means NOTHING, but it's not a high priority. I have been gemming the following:

• Yellow = Fractured Sun's Radiance (+20 Mastery)
• Blue = Sensei's Wild Jade (+10 Crit +10 Mastery)
• Red = Artful Vermilion Onyx (+5 Int + 10 Mastery)

Hope this helps you somewhat.

YES!! Thank you VERY much!

So you are getting good results with stacking Mastery then?

[Batix]

YES!! Thank you VERY much!

So you are getting good results with stacking Mastery then?

Yes, Mastery ≥ Crit > Haste

[Weisshorn]

If, "Agility and Intellect no longer give Critical Strike", why you're saying to use an Artful Vermillion Onyx +5 int/+ 10 mastery ? It's not better to use a Keen Vermillion Onyx +10 Haste/+10 Mastery ?

[Batix]

If, "Agility and Intellect no longer give Critical Strike", why you're saying to use an Artful Vermillion Onyx +5 int/+ 10 mastery ? It's not better to use a Keen Vermillion Onyx +10 Haste/+10 Mastery ?

I'm sure that you could... maybe at lower haste levels on gear? I'm finding the spell power to be more beneficial.

[Weisshorn]

I'm sure that you could... maybe at lower haste levels on gear? I'm finding the spell power to be more beneficial.

Makes sense, thank you.

[Deleted]

4) Peak only affects the initial damage from your DoTs, nothing more, nothing less. For AoE, use appropriate spells as you see fit, when you see fit.

Okay, this confuses me some... does eclipse level only affect starfire and wrath now?

[Batix]

Okay, this confuses me some... does eclipse level only affect starfire and wrath now?

The short buffs you gain at 100 called "Lunar Peak" and "Solar Peak" increase the damage done by your next Moonfire or Sunfire by 100%, respectively. This does not affect the DoT effect. Only the initial damage from applying the spell.

Essentially, if you "clip" your DoT, and you're not currently in peak... as long as it's done within the last 30% of the duration, you're not losing any DPS.

There is no more snapshotting. You used to only run eclipsed DoTs on the target, because if you applied one out of eclipse, all of the ticks for the entire duration of the spell would have done less damage than if it had been eclipsed. This is out the window.

Because of Moonfire's long duration, you now should only have to re-cast it @ Lunar Peak.
Sunfire's duration is significantly shorter, thus you will find yourself having to re-cast it as soon as you start to enter Solar, and it will be a net DPS gain to re-cast it again at Solar Peak, because of its initial damage/Eclipse snapshotting.

Hope that helps.

[Deleted]

Interesting, I was led to believe that eclipse was one of the snapshotting mechanics left in the game but I could be wrong!

I understand that you get the buff at peak which doubles the instant damage and in most situations you will want to be refreshing as close to peak as possible due to durations etc but that makes the rest of the eclipse mechanic meaningless except for good starsurge timing to avoid low values for the relevant spells at low eclipse levels.

Not that I mind, it means multidotting while moving is not going to be effected by current states.

[Batix]

Interesting, I was led to believe that eclipse was one of the snapshotting mechanics left in the game but I could be wrong!

I am pretty sure of this, but you're making me double-take... I'll look into this.

[Deleted]

Thanks!

I switched to moonkin mid way through SoO so had basically got my shit together just before they changed it all... trying to keep up with the game this time.

[Juicebox]

Pretty sure ecplise was changed to not snapshot dots, but update them dynamically as well. Someone do correct me if I'm wrong.

[Chimpyman]

is it me or is our aoe absolutely worthless now?

[Batix]

Pretty sure ecplise was changed to not snapshot dots, but update them dynamically as well. Someone do correct me if I'm wrong.

DoTs will snapshot the level of eclipse mastery you are at, at the time of the cast. This is the only thing that remains true. No longer will they factor in spell power and other related effects.

[Astraeus64]

DoTs will snapshot the level of eclipse mastery you are at, at the time of the cast. This is the only thing that remains true. No longer will they factor in spell power and other related effects.

I just moonfired some dummies, and watched the periodic damage scale upward and downward based on the level of eclipse. It does not snapshot the eclipse level. Go moonfire something at lunar peak and watch your damage scale downward from there.

Will edit to say I removed both of my trinkets and cape to stop messing with the #'s popping. Admittedly had my enchanted weapon still on but I repeated the test several times with the same results. On a level 85 dummy (not dealing with Shrine's lag) my moonfire tick at peak is about 18.5k~, but 0 energy it's down to 11k and at full solar it was at 9k. Watched it scale all the way back up as it reapproached full lunar.

[Batix]

is it me or is our aoe absolutely worthless now?

It's not like it was, but it definitely isn't worthless. I'm still one of the top 5 aoe'rs in our raid. Proper starfall usage is key. It is possible that Glyph of Solstice may yield a small DPS increase on fights with lots of adds, as well.

- - - Updated - - -

I just moonfired some dummies, and watched the periodic damage scale upward and downward based on the level of eclipse. It does not snapshot the eclipse level. Go moonfire something at lunar peak and watch your damage scale downward from there.

Will edit to say I removed both of my trinkets and cape to stop messing with the #'s popping. Admittedly had my enchanted weapon still on but I repeated the test several times with the same results. On a level 85 dummy (not dealing with Shrine's lag) my moonfire tick at peak is about 18.5k~, but 0 energy it's down to 11k and at full solar it was at 9k. Watched it scale all the way back up as it reapproached full lunar.

Ok, ok. So it's basically how Starfall was, then. So I was correct to begin with. Gah. I miss old snapshotting.

[Astraeus64]

Ok, ok. So it's basically how Starfall was, then. So I was correct to begin with. Gah. I miss old snapshotting.

Not going to totally disagree with you. I hope the raid mechanics offset how so many classes got so much easier to play.

[Batix]

Not going to totally disagree with you. I hope the raid mechanics offset how so many classes got so much easier to play.

Completely agree. I am hoping for it as well. All-in-all, I was very disappointed with most of the MoP boss mechanics. All very easy to deal with.

[Deleted]

It's not like it was, but it definitely isn't worthless. I'm still one of the top 5 aoe'rs in our raid. Proper starfall usage is key. It is possible that Glyph of Solstice may yield a small DPS increase on fights with lots of adds, as well.

- - - Updated - - -



Ok, ok. So it's basically how Starfall was, then. So I was correct to begin with. Gah. I miss old snapshotting.

Sorry for getting you confused, glad that is all sorted out though! makes me feel better too.