bad things about pvp atm

[Deleted]

1. neededing to queue for ashran to get bonus 200 points

2. lowering the weekly cap but not lowering the item prices hmm sounds familiar yes cos thats how real life is low wages and high item prices

3.increased rating to increase cap at 1597 and the cap only increases by 63 points wow, so for 2200 point cap you will have to be high warlord rated or something

4. the loot from rated bg's is stupid twice ive got the same item i already ahve the cape there should be some loot rules that stops yo ugetting dupes of dupes

[Madus]

1. neededing to queue for ashran to get bonus 200 points

2. lowering the weekly cap but not lowering the item prices hmm sounds familiar yes cos thats how real life is low wages and high item prices

3.increased rating to increase cap at 1597 and the cap only increases by 63 points wow, so for 2200 point cap you will have to be high warlord rated or something

4. the loot from rated bg's is stupid twice ive got the same item i already ahve the cape there should be some loot rules that stops yo ugetting dupes of dupes

1. Half of the gladiator sanctum cp is going to Asshran bonus points.
2. Deal with it, get better rating
3. Same as 2. and btw you need just 1650 rating for 2200 cap (2000+200 assbonus)
4. RNG

All these things what you named as "bad things about pvp atm" are basically negligible while you forgot name massive racial imbalance and stupid realmbased (not instance) asshran.

[Thelxi]

The only thing I really dislike about PvP atm is how terrible crit and multistrike are.

For classes who don't want them in pve it's fine, for those who do though, well enjoy your best stats being only half as good in pvp and your overall damage lowered in comparison.
Even worse if you have mechanics based on them.


As for your points:
Ashran is only an issue on some servers and IF blizz finally fixed queue times wouldn't be one at all.
And getting things twice sucks, yes. But that's part of the loot mechanics since forever. And at least you get the free items to begin with.

Other than that I don't really have any issues with the things you mention.

I knew that crit was not as good in PvP, but multistrike? is that nerfed too in pvp combat?

[Anzen]

I knew that crit was not as good in PvP, but multistrike? is that nerfed too in pvp combat?

It only rolls damage once instead of twice. Personally I don't think it's that bad, just like crit in PvP there's a lot of classes that will still stack it.

[Aryah]

I knew that crit was not as good in PvP, but multistrike? is that nerfed too in pvp combat?

Yep. Blizzard added a new secondary stat and then nerfed it into ineffectiveness, essentially making it a dead-weight stats wise.

It only rolls damage once instead of twice. Personally I don't think it's that bad, just like crit in PvP there's a lot of classes that will still stack it.

Problem is that it's not as good as other stuff like mastery, versatility or haste (depending on the class), so it's kind of just a burden and something you work around when gearing. I mean, it's not better than any of those stats for any class purely because of its nerf in PvP.

[stickyjam]

1. Half of the gladiator sanctum cp is going to Asshran bonus points.

Isn't that a bug?

The only way I can get that bonus points to go in is if i get into ashran as the mail is sent saying "we found these lost points"

Else opening the tribute when i'm capped results in them doing nothing except the mail.

[Rucati]

1. You don't "need" to queue for Ashran to get 200 extra points. If you're taking PvP seriously enough that you care then you should be high enough rated for the extra 200 points to not really matter. You'll be full geared like 1 week after others if you don't do it, hardly game changing.

2. Again, if you're at all a serious player this shouldn't be a problem. Getting to ~1850 for a 2k cap isn't hard.

3. See number 2. Again, getting a higher cap isn't that hard.

4. The loot from RBGs shouldn't even exist, it's completely idiotic and significantly worse than the Ashran bonus. But still, after a couple months it won't matter any more.

[Prag]

Things I dislike about current PvP:

1. Melee - they make zero sense. Disarms removed but Interrupts don't just stay, but aren't even on the same lockout? GG Stun -> Silence -> 10s of lockouts (because I'm still getting locked out after the cast has ended by success or fake). Roots break on damage and, guess what, Silences/Lockouts should too. With the damage every Melee is able to put out, there's no reason they should have an extra way to keep casters down. Alternate option - provide a passive interrupt immunity to DPS casters so that it doesn't turn into turret healing.

2. Racials. They need to just be removed from PvP experiences entirely.

3. Speed enhancements/boosts while FC'ing should be disabled entirely, including Burst of Speed. If someone can't drop combat, get on their ground mount and eventually catch up to you, it's broken.

4. Strongbox loot RNG... Ugh. It hates me so much.

5. You still can't purchase level 100 honor gear as you level up... For a game that pretty much ignores low level PvP balance citing "max level PvP is our concern", they aren't really making it any easier. This would go a long way in easing into max level BG's and PvP if you could farm out most of your gear while leveling.

That's all my QQ at the moment. Hold while I grab myself a tissue.

[ellieg]

1. neededing to queue for ashran to get bonus 200 points

2. lowering the weekly cap but not lowering the item prices hmm sounds familiar yes cos thats how real life is low wages and high item prices

3.increased rating to increase cap at 1597 and the cap only increases by 63 points wow, so for 2200 point cap you will have to be high warlord rated or something

4. the loot from rated bg's is stupid twice ive got the same item i already ahve the cape there should be some loot rules that stops yo ugetting dupes of dupes

1. 200 pt over15 weeks will getyou about 2 pieces of gear. you will be fullygeared by this time aslong as you have a decent rating. its not as big as you think it is.
2. get a better rating, not hard.
3. at 1900 in 2v2 im getting 2200 pts a week. it scales differently than you think. get a better rating.
4. suck it up. youre not entitled to upgrades. Yes it would be nice but once again, by about 1/2 way t 2/3 of the way through the season, you will be fully geared anyway. This is when you should really push rating. If you don't plan on pushing rating, why do you care how fast you gear up anyway? Never understood why 1500 rrated people actually care.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing I really dislike about PvP atm is how terrible crit and multistrike are.

For classes who don't want them in pve it's fine, for those who do though, well enjoy your best stats being only half as good in pvp and your overall damage lowered in comparison.
Even worse if you have mechanics based on them.

Its not that bad though. crit and multistrike are half as good. Haste takes a cut too because of movement, not like in pve where you sit there and perform your rotation. Versa is a bad stat in pve cause its bland, not as good as other stats but does get boosted in pvp. Mastery is tough to figure out how good it is. Depending on your class it could definitely be a good stat because it isn't "nerfed" in pvp. But, if it affects certain abilities which are not used as frequently in pvp, it could very well be bad.

Point is, its not as black and white as you think.

- - - Updated - - -

Things I dislike about current PvP:

1. Melee - they make zero sense. Disarms removed but Interrupts don't just stay, but aren't even on the same lockout? GG Stun -> Silence -> 10s of lockouts (because I'm still getting locked out after the cast has ended by success or fake). Roots break on damage and, guess what, Silences/Lockouts should too. With the damage every Melee is able to put out, there's no reason they should have an extra way to keep casters down. Alternate option - provide a passive interrupt immunity to DPS casters so that it doesn't turn into turret healing.

2. Racials. They need to just be removed from PvP experiences entirely.

3. Speed enhancements/boosts while FC'ing should be disabled entirely, including Burst of Speed. If someone can't drop combat, get on their ground mount and eventually catch up to you, it's broken.

4. Strongbox loot RNG... Ugh. It hates me so much.

5. You still can't purchase level 100 honor gear as you level up... For a game that pretty much ignores low level PvP balance citing "max level PvP is our concern", they aren't really making it any easier. This would go a long way in easing into max level BG's and PvP if you could farm out most of your gear while leveling.

That's all my QQ at the moment. Hold while I grab myself a tissue.

1. this is the way interrupts have always worked. Yes I believe casters are in a bad spot, but nerfing interrupts isn't the way to do it. Youre alternate option is alright, some classes have that. I guess just work better with your teammate.
2. racials are not nearly as good as people think they are. I can understand removing them to make things "more fair" but I don't think its really needed. Just more homogenization. all classes already feel the same, why keep removing everything fun from the game?
3. there should be some speed cap but completely removing them would make tanks like blood dDK's necessary for an FC game. BoS is too good for running flags but its fairly well balanced in 3v3, which is what they care abt.
4. any loot is better than no loot. they just added this. I too get frustrated tho.
5. I see no reason not to add this

[ellieg]

Haste is mediocre for melees, yep, but for casters, especially casting dependant ones, it's as good as it has always been in PvP.
And I just find it very annoying how 2/5 stats are severely cut back in effectiveness in PvP, without anything to compensate for that.
While I understand the reasoning behind the changes, they should be applied to PvE as well and then balanced so that those 2 stats don't lag behind and feel like a bad thing to have on an item.

Yes, the difference between the gear choices in PvP, due to their limitation for the set pieces, is small, but still, it just feel bad to me, when my best stats are suddenly my worst or close to them. And I don't like going " urgh, that thing has crit AND ms on it, and the off-set one still has crit...meh, "wasted" item" in my head, even though I know it's not that bad. ^^

Yea is definitely frustrating. Especially with the lack of sockets. I understand why they did that though. I like to think (whether its true or not) that blizzard balances around the gear that's available. They made crit and ms worse cause they wanted to make gameplay less bursty. Not sure how they would counteract this but would be nice if they did something. I play mainly frost DK, multistrike is still my best stat. If they buffed it id be pretty op

[ellieg]

*implying frost dks aren't op* :P

In all seriousness though...or something that comes close to that:
They should have kept sockets for PvP items and reduce the baseline stats they give (so they aren't too good for PvE again).
And as boring and clunky and "let the addon do it" as reforging was.....I miss it. A lot.
Even though it's no longer bc or wrath, where pvp gear had crit on it and you were going to like that!, having no control about what stats we take and how we want to play our spec kinda sucks. :/


But it really is hard to tone down burst for pvp only, w/o resorting to blanket solutions like resilience and similar things.
Welp. ^^

Yea i burst hard but my mobility sucks. i really should play with a ret... There are definitely things that could be changed but i think overall pvp is in a good place. IMO melee is easy to play, but casters can do just as well if not better in the right scenario with the right teammates. I think most people that complain about pvp imbalance aren't very good and are playing in terrible comps, or just crying about Battlegrounds.

[Anzen]

I wanna add to the things I don't enjoy about PvP at the moment:

> Rets
> Burst of Speed (remove or increase cost to 50 or something, christ.)
> SV Trap Perk (increase cooldown on trap to something not ridiculous).
> Ice Nova & Prismatic Crystal (not that mages are OP, would prefer a FB buff and a nerf to said abilities).
> Spammable purging (BM Hunters/Enhance for example).
> Moving Disc healing out from absorbs and back into actual heals (which I thought they were planning on? 100k+ Clarity of Will's just take the piss now).

That's the stuff that I think is borderline broken, I'd making numerous class changes after that (changing WW & Elemental, probably adjusting Melee mobility) but I think that would be a great start.)

[Prag]

Yea i burst hard but my mobility sucks. i really should play with a ret... There are definitely things that could be changed but i think overall pvp is in a good place. IMO melee is easy to play, but casters can do just as well if not better in the right scenario with the right teammates. I think most people that complain about pvp imbalance aren't very good and are playing in terrible comps, or just crying about Battlegrounds.

"Right scenario" being no melee present. That's not balance, that's just luck. They pretty much went in the polar opposite direction they originally stated with the CC tuning and ability pruning - it really only affected casters.

More important even than balance is the fact that being a caster in PvP right now is not fun. So much more effort, gear and luck are required than melee who can just run around like retarded gorillas, destroying everything.

[ellieg]

"Right scenario" being no melee present. That's not balance, that's just luck. They pretty much went in the polar opposite direction they originally stated with the CC tuning and ability pruning - it really only affected casters.

More important even than balance is the fact that being a caster in PvP right now is not fun. So much more effort, gear and luck are required than melee who can just run around like retarded gorillas, destroying everything.

Look at the top 100 in 3v3. sure there are more melee than casters (unless you count healers as casters), but there are still casters up there. are you assuming that they never fought a team with a melee on it? I'm having a ton of fun on my affliction lock. not having fun is just your opinion.
Gear is required on every character. not much more effort is required, i play many dif characters and none of them are too hard. What class do you play? just curious.

[Deleted]

More important even than balance is the fact that being a caster in PvP right now is not fun.

true words

[Prag]

Look at the top 100 in 3v3. sure there are more melee than casters (unless you count healers as casters), but there are still casters up there. are you assuming that they never fought a team with a melee on it? I'm having a ton of fun on my affliction lock. not having fun is just your opinion.
Gear is required on every character. not much more effort is required, i play many dif characters and none of them are too hard. What class do you play? just curious.

The random spattering of casters in the top 100 are players that would excel at any class they play, melee or caster. There are 14 non-healing casters in the top 100, 9 of which are Warlocks. I'm not at all surprised that you're enjoying it - Affliction is great, somehow.

As I said - it's less about balance, because I've accepted the fact that the dev team is just incapable of balancing for more than 6 players at a time (in a game of millions). It's more about the experience because, if I'm having fun but not dominating, at least I'm still having fun.

Against a Rogue:
- Stuns, Cloak, Vanish, Immune to slows/roots, Silences, Interrupts, Incapacitates.

Against a Warrior:
- Gap closer, reflect, stun, interrupt. Not bad to deal with.

Against a DK:
- Gap closer (DG), Interrupts, Silence, Stun(s), Slows, Immunity to Magic.

Against a Ret:
- Insane damage, 6s stun (ROFL), self-sustain (meh), immunity, baseline snare/root breaks, ability to deal massive damage even from range.

Against a Feral:
- Lol. Not even worth listing.

It just makes for an exceptionally frustrating experience and feels extremely one-sided, especially against Rets, Rogues and DKs who kept their anti-caster abilities while casters lost most of their anti-melee abilities.

[ellieg]

The random spattering of casters in the top 100 are players that would excel at any class they play, melee or caster. There are 14 non-healing casters in the top 100, 9 of which are Warlocks. I'm not at all surprised that you're enjoying it - Affliction is great, somehow.

As I said - it's less about balance, because I've accepted the fact that the dev team is just incapable of balancing for more than 6 players at a time (in a game of millions). It's more about the experience because, if I'm having fun but not dominating, at least I'm still having fun.

Against a Rogue:
- Stuns, Cloak, Vanish, Immune to slows/roots, Silences, Interrupts, Incapacitates.

Against a Warrior:
- Gap closer, reflect, stun, interrupt. Not bad to deal with.

Against a DK:
- Gap closer (DG), Interrupts, Silence, Stun(s), Slows, Immunity to Magic.

Against a Ret:
- Insane damage, 6s stun (ROFL), self-sustain (meh), immunity, baseline snare/root breaks, ability to deal massive damage even from range.

Against a Feral:
- Lol. Not even worth listing.

It just makes for an exceptionally frustrating experience and feels extremely one-sided, especially against Rets, Rogues and DKs who kept their anti-caster abilities while casters lost most of their anti-melee abilities.

I can understand the frustration. what class are you playing? who are your teammates? Are they dispelling the silences on you? Perhaps you should play with a rogue to help keep them ccd and locked down so you can cast on them.

What exactly would you change though? less gap closers?

[Deleted]

Sorry OP needing to queue for 2hours for Ashran is bad.

Needing to queue for 2 hours for Ashran > Pushing in the zerg for 2 hours to get to boss > Tanking and killing boss > reward bugging out and not receiving anything is unacceptable.

[Prag]

I can understand the frustration. what class are you playing? who are your teammates? Are they dispelling the silences on you? Perhaps you should play with a rogue to help keep them ccd and locked down so you can cast on them.

What exactly would you change though? less gap closers?

Ele Shaman and no, I'm trying to find teammates but it's going pretty poorly based on the stigma of the spec and being new to it. I'm hesitant to say things like overpowered because there's obviously some L2P issues going on, but I'm pretty comfortable saying that my pvp experiences as a whole have been pretty poor this expansion. While the ability to play well is my responsibility, the game feeling fun is a responsibility of the developers and there's definitely room to improve.

What I would change immediately? Rogues - 8s stun has to go along with the potency of BoS. It goes against everything they said about CC abilities being too prevalent. Interrupts against DPS casters are too prevalent and is essentially the same thing as a Disarm, which was removed for some reason. Rets? Damage tuning.

[ellieg]

For starters they should add some sort of DR to interrupts. They shouldn't work this way if they want to make casting more rewarding (ha ha)
They should also get rid of Ferals shifting out of roots, Burst of Speed and double HoF (possibly also nerf Emancipate, because Ret's have too much range damage): this may have been fine when you could spam instants to still have some kind of pressure going but with the current state of the game it makes no sense.

In order for interupts to get DR's, they would just make them into 4 sec silences, instead of 4 sec interupts. Because interrupts can be juked. Interrupts are the only ability that can technically "miss" now. If they make interrupts DR, they would have to completely change how they work.

Also, with burst of speed and shapeshift and all of that, they are kinda needed. Contrary to what people say, rets ferals and rogues are pretty squishy. Look at warriors and DK's, not nearly as squishy but they have to sit in roots and slows. No way to get out of them. The last thing anyone wants is to go back to the days of frost mages endlessly kiting every single melee without them being able to touch them. i do agree that something needs to be done to improve casters but not sure. i like that they removed spells like fel flame because it made casters too good. not sure how i would change casters tho tbh.