Disc Priest Help Heroic Garrosh 10m

[tannzenator]

Hi All,

My raid group has been struggling on Heroic Garrosh and I wanted more insight on the performance of our disc priest. From my non-priest knowledge I have seen: Low AA uptime/non-optimal times used. Low Atonement usage (maybe this is a playstyle choice?), Late starting Spirit Shells (my understanding is that these should be finished building prior to actual damage going out). I will include a link to logs at the bottom.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks in advance!

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...aling&source=3

[Deleted]

He should not have Renew keybound, and Halo is sighnificantly better on this fight. ToT is better than PI as well here.
Attonement is about half of what should have been, same applies to Archangel uptime, Binding Heal is missing entirely. 5 pain suppressions in 23 attempts is a bit low.

And yes, SS should be finished before the Iron Star Impact and before channel of Whirling Corruption, but it can be used during the Annihilates.

Why is he using Shadow Word: Pain and Mind Sear...?

[kenn9530]

He is using Divine star which is good but in the 6 mins 43 secs of the fight he uses it 11 times when it could of been used 26 times, each whirling it can be used twice so this should add a lot more healing, also keep PoM on cd, use PoH during heavy aoe when needed, along with pre shielding the raid with SS before major damage even starts and that should tighten up any lose areas of disc healing.

[Deleted]

He should switch PI for ToF, sniping for the uptime smiting low % weapons or adds.
Halo is huge in this fight and he should def use it instead of divine star. During aoes he should be far from the rest of the raid. Halo's heal will be huge, it's a Lay on Hand on every member. He'll have time anyway to go back and stack with the others before the next desacrate.
He should keep the Grace uptime on tank too, it's a huge help.
He used pain suppression rarely, i suggest you to coordinate raid cds better. In my raid we decided when to use every cd we had. (eg. barrier on 2nd impact P1, pain on tank soaking swings interphase 1, pain on emp whirl and so on). Set when to use your HTT, Aura Mastery, Smoke bomb and Ascendance.
Also, your warlocks should use rain of fire before every mind control to gain a lot of shards(even more if THEY get controlled).
I see your Priest is using Chi-Ji's cloak. What are you wiping to? If you need more dps, using the dps cloak is totally acceptable since chi ji's effect is quite trivial and the dps one will boost his damage by at least 50%.
Glyph of Smite should also be changed, it doesn't affect atonement and he's not smiting enough anyway to profit from it. In your longest fight it provided roughly 200k damage total. Glyph of Fade or Glyph of Inner Sanctum will grant better survivability, i'd go for the latter though since fading might prove dangerous during emp ww.
Also, since he has a normal head, he might want to try to use 4p for Garr. I sticked to 2p + 3 offset for all SoO but went for 4p at Garrosh. With 4p during SS fits one more PoH, which is really helpful. he also shouldn't use Mind Sear, smiting Embodied Doubts will be far better than MS them.

[Hypasonic]

Far too much spirit, nearly 15k......totally wasted and should be put into crit/mastery instead. Tell him to use ToF on every single fight, especially this one. He should use the DPS cloak, helps with ToF uptime and does a decent amount of "free" damage. Remove renew, star is fine. His attonement healing is dreadfully low, needs to up that really. Need to use Shell during AA, rule of thumb Pop AA>Throw Star/Shell/Star again.

You can shell every other whirl, and use IF+PoH in between.

[Deleted]

Far too much spirit, nearly 15k......totally wasted and should be put into crit/mastery instead. Tell him to use ToF on every single fight, especially this one. He should use the DPS cloak, helps with ToF uptime and does a decent amount of "free" damage. Remove renew, star is fine. His attonement healing is dreadfully low, needs to up that really. Need to use Shell during AA, rule of thumb Pop AA>Throw Star/Shell/Star again.

You can shell every other whirl, and use IF+PoH in between.

But he needs that spirit for those Mind Sears and Shadow Words: Pain, because he is a disc priest and they heal through doing damage!
[/sarcasm]

[Deleted]

As ppl already said he has way to much spirit, we killed it some time ago and I was under 9k spirit. Make sure the healers and everyone else with big raid cooldowns that reduces dmg have sorted them out correct. For example we only used SS on the first iron star - you dont need anymore cooldowns if used properly. You have a disc and a holydin - perfect setup but make sure they are not using big cooldowns together or some major shielding, less is better imo and its no need to throw down shields making the raid survive with 100% after a big aoe hit. Also u have both a shaman and a rogue - great cds both healing and reduction.

Might wanna think of picking the 6% dmg reduction glyph from inner fire also, it does wonders on the fight.

The gear looks fine apart from gems - some yellow crit gems in items that only gives spirit as socket bonus, screw spirit and go full crit there. He has way better gear then i did, i was 575 with a flex trinket and the timeless trinket with crit lol.

For me it all came down to proper use of cooldowns, especially SS, in phase 2-3 with the adds proper pre shielding is crucial. With the 4 piece bonus he should get out 2 prayers with ss on each group easy - its worth taking it. Also actually trusting atonement do to the trick in situations where u panic when raid is low. I used feathers for this fight - might be a small thing, but that burst speed is very importent in transitions + whirlwinds.

I used Divine star and it was HUGE on the fight, but make sure he uses it as often as a precast for DA as an actual heal, a crit on ds before big dmg impact is OP. DA with the current gear scaling is way stronger then SS.

Also he should not be afraid to use especially binding heal but also flash heal in case of big emergency, again dont underestimate DA.

For me it came down to learning the fight - when to use what, abit mana management and especially preshielding, the fight is like built for disc with all those big aoe hits that u have timers on. This u learn quite quickly cause its the same all the time. The real hard thing is for the raid to manage the big cds and sort the dps burst out, thats what took us 200 tries, not the healing imo. The healing also gets so much easier when dps steps up, reducing the amount of whirlwinds, ironstars, add phases etc. There he really can help with the dps, i was doing around 130k dmg - use that dps cloak imo - healing cloak for disc is not so good.

[Jimjam38]

If I'm looking at the right armory, this guys gear is even better than mine(in terms of ilevel anyway). Damn. Sad that he's such a spaz (or appears to be from his logs). 15k Spirit is an insane amount. As disc, good player is fine with 8-9.5k, the world best (looking at paragon's 25man team in this situation), need 6k. 15k + Siegecrafter trinket is bordering on holy-priest-solo-heal-world-first-10man-hc-garrosh spirit levels, nom sayin, which he isnt, cause hes disc, and not Jhazrun.

Looking at his gear, not only does he need to reforge out of all spirit and in this case I'd even be reforging out of spirit before haste, but he actually needs re-gearing. If he's with you guys to stay, try to get him any of the following: The helm from immerseus, the boots from shamans, the staff from sha, the chest from thok, the gloves from siegecrafter. Basically anything that is crit/mastery.
And look at his reforging, its so inconsistent and spastic. He seems to get the whole crit is good idea, but the haste is bad (or at least not as good as everything else (except maybe 6k too much spirit)) thing seems to have missed him totally, and he even reforged OUT of mastery. Wat? He's geared like a 25man Holy Priest or something. Doesn't make sense at any rate.

Anyway I'd agree with most of this advice. In 10man he should be making much more/better use of binding heal, possibly glyph it too. Needs much better up time on archangel. His seems to be making excessive use of PoH, which isnt all that necessary on garrosh, or in MoP in general. Burst healing and spike damage is the name of the mists healing game, and luckly for disc, absorbs + level 90 godmode tallents cover the burst healing, and atonement covers the spike damage. Not a lot of room left for PoH really. Admittedly I use it more than most fights on 10man garrosh (norm, admittedly i havent done hc garry yet), because its great between DS for the whrilings (and desc weaps if stack method), and is good between annihilates too. Still, 46 casts seems excessive...
Not enough DS, not enough Spirit Shell, not enough PoM, and (imo) definitely not enough atonement. And...
He shouldn't be using renew. To put it anecdotally, as I did in another recent post:

Renew is retarded as disc, only time i'd ever bother with it is when you categorically know the tank is about to take intense damage and will need all the throughput it can get. An example of this is the tower bosses (especially the 2nd tower) on hc galakras, whose auto attack damage is intense as it gets. I solo heal the tower group on 25man hc, and begin with a pain sup and renew on the tank followed by PWS then PoM then penance and then usually the boss has begun its smash phase and isnt attacking the tank and is dead before it begins again. That's 1 moment on 1 out of the 7 hc bosses i've done that i ever use renew on.

Anyway...
The only thing I absolutely disagree with mentioned above is suggesting halo. I cant comprehend how it can be better than DS. DS is basically available for every iron star and every whirling, and most of the desecrates in between. Halo would get maybe the just whirlings, and if you're getting empowered whirlings should aggro every bears too. Not good.
Just the fact that the cape did 4% of his healing seems wrong to me. As disc, mine rarely does over 1% maybe 2%. The dps cape not only provides so much more dps, but has an extra 1.1k of crit on it, and doesnt have spirit.

[Adinora]

With the 4 piece bonus he should get out 2 prayers with ss on each group easy - its worth taking it.

Just wanted to mention that it's not actually needed for 10 man - you can easily get 2 prayers off without the 4pc.

- - - Updated - - -

15k Spirit is an insane amount.

15k + Siegecrafter trinket is bordering on holy-priest-solo-heal-world-first-10man-hc-garrosh spirit levels, nom sayin, which he isnt, cause hes disc, and not Jhazrun.

Totally agree. Makes me wonder - is he using AMR default weights or something silly to gear himself? Not to mention he's going out of his way to get the gem bonuses for 60 spirit - sooo not worth it.

And look at his reforging, its so inconsistent and spastic. He seems to get the whole crit is good idea, but the haste is bad (or at least not as good as everything else (except maybe 6k too much spirit)) thing seems to have missed him totally, and he even reforged OUT of mastery. Wat? He's geared like a 25man Holy Priest or something. Doesn't make sense at any rate.

He also reforged out of haste on his cloak which was a good idea but then back into haste on his shoulders, ring and belt (bad idea, should have reforged into mastery, which for his ilevel is shockingly low.) To repeat what you said - doesn't make any sense!

His seems to be making excessive use of PoH, which isnt all that necessary on garrosh, or in MoP in general. Burst healing and spike damage is the name of the mists healing game, and luckly for disc, absorbs + level 90 godmode tallents cover the burst healing, and atonement covers the spike damage. Not a lot of room left for PoH really.

This might explain why he's using so much spirit. Definitely needs to smite heal more (which is weird advice to give to a disc priest - usually we have to tell them that healing sometimes is good too!)

The only thing I absolutely disagree with mentioned above is suggesting halo. I cant comprehend how it can be better than DS. DS is basically available for every iron star and every whirling, and most of the desecrates in between. Halo would get maybe the just whirlings, and if you're getting empowered whirlings should aggro every bears too. Not good.

As much as I love halo, I agree. It looks like all the top ranked priests are using DS anyway so there's probably good reason.

[Dracodraco]

The only thing I absolutely disagree with mentioned above is suggesting halo. I cant comprehend how it can be better than DS. DS is basically available for every iron star and every whirling, and most of the desecrates in between. Halo would get maybe the just whirlings, and if you're getting empowered whirlings should aggro every bears too. Not good.

This is where it shows that you've never done heroic garrosh. Put it this way - The desecrates, Iron stars and normal whirlings are completely irrelevant. If you are wiping due to people dying on any of that, the issue isn't "switch talents to help combat the effects", but rather, "tell the healers to shape the fuck up". Halo is actually up for every normal whirl aswell, and if you bait desecrates, your disc can easily run out and get a super-tuned halo off on the entire raid during them.

That said, Empowered whirls is the one "hard" aspect of healing this entire encounter. If you want to optimise for something, you optimise for THAT. And Halo is just by far the strongest talent for dealing with the emp whirls as the entire raid is largely spread around the room, giving it optimal conditions. Not to mention it helps in the Jade Temple phase (300-400K hit on 9x adds if used when you enter, helping the dps requirement in there - the only hard DPS part of the encounter).
If the priest gets aggro from minions because of halo, he's got to trust that dps/tank(s) will taunt the extra ones off of him. Nothing else to do. But consider what you'd be doing with Divine star during empowered whirl... Twiddling your thumbs? It'll hit two people, maybe three if lucky, MAX.

[PosPosPos]

T
That said, Empowered whirls is the one "hard" aspect of healing this entire encounter. If you want to optimise for something, you optimise for THAT. And Halo is just by far the strongest talent for dealing with the emp whirls as the entire raid is largely spread around the room, giving it optimal conditions.

This is only true if you are spread around the room as opposed to running together for emp whirling. Otherwise Divine Star is stronger.

[Dracodraco]

This is only true if you are spread around the room as opposed to running together for emp whirling. Otherwise Divine Star is stronger.

Show me examples of 10 man raids that are stacking for adds and running together *on progress* (fuck some farm-mode guild that gets 1 wave of adds and just have someone grab them and kite for 20 seconds, we both know that's not relevant). The sole reason for doing it in 25 man is to allow the kiter of the adds to pick them up as they will all be stacked together. Doing it in 10 man seems borderline asinine if you want to kill the adds due to the very simple reason that if you spread, you move once when the add spawns beneath you, and can stand and dps/grab adds/heal during the rest of the whirl/after.
If you run together, that means the entire raid has to keep moving during the entire whirl (allowing only instant casts), it ups the chances of someone being hit due to multiple swirls spawning together (not that anyone SHOULD get hit, but regardless, it's a con), and it puts everyone in the same position after all the adds are spawned (forcing you to grab random adds, hope they dont die from cloak procs/ a few people hitting the same one), along with putting the desecrate that spawns seconds after the whirl on top of everyone.

So yea, sure. If you stay stacked, divine star will always win. It's completly irrelevant to this topic, though, as you don't do that in 10 man, and this post is specificly about 10 man.

[PosPosPos]

Show me examples of 10 man raids that are stacking for adds and running together *on progress* (fuck some farm-mode guild that gets 1 wave of adds and just have someone grab them and kite for 20 seconds, we both know that's not relevant).

You can do this on 10 man regardless of whether it's progression or not. It's a matter of choice and whether people have sufficient gear.

[Henriksson]

This is only true if you are spread around the room as opposed to running together for emp whirling. Otherwise Divine Star is stronger.

Why would you not spread out before empowered whirling in 10-man? Add pick-up is way easier/obvious and you're already spread so you kill them instantly-ish. Even in the case where you are stacked for emp whirling, I would still pick halo and stand away from the stack to land huge halo on both Melee and Ranged.

[PosPosPos]

Why would you not spread out before empowered whirling in 10-man? Add pick-up is way easier/obvious and you're already spread so you kill them instantly-ish. Even in the case where you are stacked for emp whirling, I would still pick halo and stand away from the stack to land huge halo on both Melee and Ranged.

That's because people can't comprehend strats that they don't use in their own raids.

[Dracodraco]

You can do this on 10 man regardless of whether it's progression or not. It's a matter of choice and whether people have sufficient gear.

Yea, okay, ignore the entire post. I'm not really sure what I expect of you anymore. Again, link me some progress parses where people are relying on this tactic. Considering the far bigger downsides to the above tactic (having to use two tanks, needing two healers or insane amount of raid cds due to not being able to stand still and heal during whirl, thus putting strain on the DPS that are probably not stellar to start with due to, you know, only recently starting garrosh progress), I'd imagine you'd be hard stressed to find one.
But I already stated - if you do stack and run, Divine star will be better. But if you're doing 10 man garrosh, you won't be stacking and running, so it's completly fucking irrelevant. You must be able to understand that .

That's because people can't comprehend strats that they don't use in their own raids.

Considering you have never killed the boss in 10 man on either of your heroic-raiding chars that can be easily located (pospospos on frostmourne, and sopsopsop on Dath'Remar), I'm more inclined to believe that you just don't have a clue about what you are actually saying. Your comment implies that you use this strategy in "your" raid, but clearly, you don't. So where have you seen it effectively used? Link.

[Jimjam38]

This is where it shows that you've never done heroic garrosh.

You're right, as I said in my post, I haven't. And you make a very solid argument for Halo, and I'm sure there's equally valid arguments for DS too. Strange as it is to realise, for once its not the level 90 tallent choice that's this guys biggest issue right now.

This is a small (though still relevant) aspect of the fight and one which we ALL could debate all day without actually helping the OP. As someone somewhere probably once said, the internet is no place for a reasonable discussion, so lets drop it this part for now and get back to the OTHER things this guy needs to change.

[Dracodraco]

You're right, as I said in my post, I haven't. And you make a very solid argument for Halo, and I'm sure there's equally valid arguments for DS too. Strange as it is to realise, for once its not the level 90 tallent choice that's this guys biggest issue right now.

This is a small (though still relevant) aspect of the fight and one which we ALL could debate all day without actually helping the OP. As someone somewhere probably once said, the internet is no place for a reasonable discussion, so lets drop it this part for now and get back to the OTHER things this guy needs to change.

All has pretty much been pointed out. Just offering some insight as to why one choise is, in my experience, better than another.

[Henriksson]

That's because people can't comprehend strats that they don't use in their own raids.

Looks to me you've never done 10-man garrosh. The reason you run stacked like that in 25-man is for add pick up by the monk kiter. You know, the thing you're not using in 10-man, especially in OP's case where a Guardian druid is solo tanking.

[Jimjam38]

All has pretty much been pointed out. Just offering some insight as to why one choice is, in my experience, better than another.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have the insight, having not done hc garry these were points I hadn't considered yet, and I like to try to know as much about my class and a fight as possible before I do it (not sure my guild will ever get to garry hc though :| )