Blizzard has proven that Raiding is dying

[Elfezen]

What Blizzard did in this expansion has proven to all gamers out there that raiding is dying alltogether, this is also tied to the fact that almost all the other MMOs are not focused on raids as end content anymore but instead the ''raids'' there are big soloable story events and the end content is mostly either a soloable boss or 4 to 5 man dungeons. Wildstar was the only one that tried to go oldschool WoW raiding type but failed big time and it's servers are dead.

The fact that they put the ''Loremaster'' achievement behind raids means that not only the hard raids are done by a minority (normal/heroic/mythic) but even Raid Finder in WoD and MoP was done by a less amount of people than what they expected so in a desperate attempt to bring more people to bother with raids they locked the 2 last Suramar storylines behind Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold.

This brought only negativity however, and people will do these 2 raids just once to complete the quests so i won't be surprised if the next step is to make Raids like the modern age - to be big soloable story events and instead the endgame content will be focused on dungeons, either mythic or whatever they bring up.

[Makorus]

I don't see the connection.

[ShiyoKozuki]

End game should be 5 man dungeons and equally as difficult 10 man raids.
20 man raids need to go away forever and never come back, they don't belong in 2016.

[Socialhealer]

to be big soloable story events and instead the endgame content will be focused on dungeons, either mythic or whatever they bring up.

lol'd saw it coming a noob who can't talk to people and wants to solo everything in an mmo, go play a single player game.

this raiding is dying bullshit is getting old.

[Veyne]

so i won't be surprised if the next step is to make Raids like the modern age - to be big soloable story events and instead the endgame content will be focused on dungeons, either mythic or whatever they bring up.

Absolutely not.

[Deleted]

people only raid to get lore master
people only get lore master to get pathfinder
people only get pathfinder to get flying
people only play wow to fly.
wow is becoming flight simulator, it is inevitable.

[Jazzhands]

End game should be 5 man dungeons and equally as difficult 10 man raids.
20 man raids need to go away forever and never come back, they don't belong in 2016.

You can already do 10 man raids of equal difficulty to heroic dungeons, bring 10 people into normal EN, also happens that EN is the current end game.

Sounds like WoW has what you want, and also 20 man raiding for people who want a challenge more than content that can be done with their eyes shut. Why remove 20 man raiding?

[judgementofantonidas]

What Blizzard did in this expansion has proven to all gamers out there that raiding is dying alltogether, this is also tied to the fact that almost all the other MMOs are not focused on raids as end content anymore but instead the ''raids'' there are big soloable story events and the end content is mostly either a soloable boss or 4 to 5 man dungeons. Wildstar was the only one that tried to go oldschool WoW raiding type but failed big time and it's servers are dead.

The fact that they put the ''Loremaster'' achievement behind raids means that not only the hard raids are done by a minority (normal/heroic/mythic) but even Raid Finder in WoD and MoP was done by a less amount of people than what they expected so in a desperate attempt to bring more people to bother with raids they locked the 2 last Suramar storylines behind Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold.

This brought only negativity however, and people will do these 2 raids just once to complete the quests so i won't be surprised if the next step is to make Raids like the modern age - to be big soloable story events and instead the endgame content will be focused on dungeons, either mythic or whatever they bring up.

Oh look another incapable player wanting "end game" content to suit their level of play threads.

[Socialhealer]

End game should be 5 man dungeons and equally as difficult 10 man raids.
20 man raids need to go away forever and never come back, they don't belong in 2016.

raids don't belong - says LFR "raider"

can i do a random battleground and tell people rated battlegrounds don't belong in 2016 i should pvp some npcs solo rofl.

[Amsden]

End game should be 5 man dungeons and equally as difficult 10 man raids.
20 man raids need to go away forever and never come back, they don't belong in 2016.

If you want to raid with 10 then raid with 10. Personally, I prefer the larger raids.

[Deleted]

yes ALL those other MMOs, you mean the ones that got claimed as wow-killers and never managed to make an impact? Maybe the fact that they dont have raids as endgame is the simple reason as to why they havent become popular yet.

[Izenhart]

End game should be 5 man dungeons and equally as difficult 10 man raids.
20 man raids need to go away forever and never come back, they don't belong in 2016.

Neither do dumb animeposters

[Baine]

What Blizzard did in this expansion has proven to all gamers out there that raiding is dying alltogether, this is also tied to the fact that almost all the other MMOs are not focused on raids as end content anymore but instead the ''raids'' there are big soloable story events and the end content is mostly either a soloable boss or 4 to 5 man dungeons. Wildstar was the only one that tried to go oldschool WoW raiding type but failed big time and it's servers are dead.

The fact that they put the ''Loremaster'' achievement behind raids means that not only the hard raids are done by a minority (normal/heroic/mythic) but even Raid Finder in WoD and MoP was done by a less amount of people than what they expected so in a desperate attempt to bring more people to bother with raids they locked the 2 last Suramar storylines behind Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold.

This brought only negativity however, and people will do these 2 raids just once to complete the quests so i won't be surprised if the next step is to make Raids like the modern age - to be big soloable story events and instead the endgame content will be focused on dungeons, either mythic or whatever they bring up.

I do not agree that raiding is dying but I agree it is a stupid decision to tie reputation with raids.

[WowIsDead64]

Simple thing. Loremaster is needed for Pathfinder. And Pathfinder is needed for flying. So Blizzard use sneaky trick to force pro-flyers to also do raids. Raids aren't related to flying. But Loremaster does, as Loremaster in the past = completing all quests. So. Gate Loremaster behind raids = require doing raids for flying, despite of fact, that you can't fly in raids, so completing raids =/= "completing content on a ground for the first time to earn ability to fly there". I.e. it's simply "chain-gating" to force players to consume as much content, as possible, even if this content doesn't suit them and they aren't interested in doing it.

[Shaddam IV]

No connection, at all.
But you keep that tinfoil hat on. You know, just in case.

[Xenyatta]

The bigger the raid the happier I get. If it were up to me, I'd have 30 man raids or at least 25 mans back again.

[Irian]

Sounds like WoW has what you want, and also 20 man raiding for people who want a challenge more than content that can be done with their eyes shut. Why remove 20 man raiding?

Because it's not working.

The participation rates for it so far have been alarmingly low from the onset. This says to me that something about it needs to change, and I think that thing would be a smaller raid size. At the very least, something needs to be happening because it's not being done. It's past niche level, it's straight up dead on the vast majority of servers. Most US and I would assume EU servers didn't even have an active mythic guild that passed Gorefiend.

I don't really agree with the OP but I don't think it can really be said that the current system is popular or successful when most people on a WoW raiding-focused fansite don't even seem to be doing it anymore.

[MikeBogina]

Eventually this game is gonna offer single player versions of the 5mans and raids and you just go with npcs...

I think i might actually enjoy that more xD

[Auxora]

Far, far, more people raid than the # of people that care about getting the loremaster achievement. Like not even close. So that kind of shoots the whole idea down that somehow raiding only exists as a requirement for that achieve. That's not even a plausible theory. Raiding has been around since vanilla almost 3 years before wow achievements even existed.

The only thing that has changed with raiding is that the groups have shrunk from a vanilla 40m raids to much more manageable 10-25m raids. More than ~20m raids just start to get like herding cats (funny that Blizz put a herding cats quest in Suramar btw), with someone always late, going afk, dc'ing, etc. That and the awfulness of wod and to a lesser degree cata and mop drove a lot of top raiding guilds to disband. But that was more about the quality of the content including >1 year of SoO and then HFC with nothing new rather than raiding itself. But raiding is still going strong and just ramping up now with Emerald Nightmare. Even looking at other mmo's the focus is always on end-game raiding, and the smaller dungeons are just a means to get to the raids where the real complex and challenging fights are.

[hulkgor]

What a silly association.

Seriously.