crucible is gonna be a nightmare for raid leaders

[shaunika123]

930 relic drops

let's see who needs it

guy 1: i got a 925 relic with mediocre traits and mediocre crucible procs
guy 2: i got a 915 relic with my best trait and the best crucible procs
guy 3: i got a 930 relic but it's my worst trait and it gives the worst crucible procs


okay, let's wait till all of you sim yourselves, compare relics, cure cancer and fly to mars.


didnt blizzard remove reforging specifically because it made the gearing process too elaborate and unnecessarily complicated?


edit: and then after deliberations they give it to the 925 relic guy, but his crucible procs so shitty traits that he cant even equip it, because you cant know beforehand how much RNG will fuck you over since there are potentially 20-50k dps differences between traits

[Deleted]

Their excuse is that this time it will ONLY happen with relics, so far less often. Also, previewing the relic trait in the crucible binds it.

[Chanja]

Honest Blizzard answer: "We removed reforging because there was no RNG involved. Kappa"

[Feanoro]

The stated reason was it was disruptive to raids if you went to reforge as well as your shiny new "upgrade?" sat in your bags if you didn't.

This is just as bad, especially if previewing a relic still prevents trading it to raid members. You rolled shit traits? Too bad for you and anyone else who could have used it. Please tell me that changed from PTR...

[shaunika123]

Honest Blizzard answer: "We removed reforging because there was no RNG involved. Kappa"

blizzard's deliberate attempt to make skill less and less important in dealing dps is kindof starting to be staggering.

if i get bad/mediocre traits i wont ever be able to compete with a guy with the best traits on the logs
basically your crucible decides if it's even worth trying to compete for the next month before you can get new relics just to try and reroll the traits

[Karon]

930 relic drops

let's see who needs it

guy 1: i got a 925 relic with mediocre traits and mediocre crucible procs
guy 2: i got a 915 relic with my best trait and the best crucible procs
guy 3: i got a 930 relic but it's my worst trait and it gives the worst crucible procs


okay, let's wait till all of you sim yourselves, compare relics, cure cancer and fly to mars.


didnt blizzard remove reforging specifically because it made the gearing process too elaborate and unnecessarily complicated?


edit: and then after deliberations they give it to the 925 relic guy, but his crucible procs so shitty traits that he cant even equip it, because you cant know beforehand how much RNG will fuck you over since there are potentially 20-50k dps differences between traits

There is a preview function in the NLC.

[Xtrm]

I thought they removed reforging because it was trivial with addons.

No, no, they removed it because they wanted you to be able to throw on new gear on the fly. It's why they removed a bunch of enchants, guaranteed gem sockets, etc.

We all get to throw on new gear immediately right? I for sure won't worry about simming multiple sets of gear to figure out which peice of my tier set to replace.

[shaunika123]

There is a preview function in the NLC.

which prevents it from being traded

No, no, they removed it because they wanted you to be able to throw on new gear on the fly. It's why they removed a bunch of enchants, guaranteed gem sockets, etc.

We all get to throw on new gear immediately right? I for sure won't worry about simming multiple sets of gear to figure out which peice of my tier set to replace.

and now you wont be able to throw relics on the fly because you have to get to the crucible to upgrade them

i mean what was it 4 years ago they came out to speak against this very thing in their wod previews, do they forget that quickly?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Both my current guild and previous one use Personal Loot. May not be perfect, but it is 100% free of drama. Everyone is good about sharing what they don't expect to use. There may be less sharing of relics now, but that's better than most relics being D/E because they weren't good for anyone.

[Xtrm]

There is a preview function in the NLC.

You can't expect everyone who wants a relic to hearth and go to the Crucible, trade the relic back and forth just so people can see who has the best rolls.

[shaunika123]

Both my current guild and previous one use Personal Loot. May not be perfect, but it is 100% free of drama. Everyone is good about sharing what they don't expect to use. There may be less sharing of relics now, but that's better than most relics being D/E because they weren't good for anyone.

yeah but for us who dont just raid heroic and normal master looter is a must, im saying this without any attempt at condescension
but if we gear healers/tanks during progress and scatter set items etc, then that significantly hinders raid performance

You can't expect everyone who wants a relic to hearth and go to the Crucible, trade the relic back and forth just so people can see who has the best rolls.

if you COULD do that, that'd be something, but you cant

[shaunika123]

Yeah, but guy 1 always stands in fire, guy 2 is actually a girl and sleeps with the GM and guy 3 is an awesome player no matter what. Then ofc there is guy 4, who has the most awesome gear and BiS legendaries, but a specc that "Blizzard does not care for" and not to forget guy 5, who is never prepared because he is constantly bitching on forums how everything is Blizzard's fault, why guy 6 just joins a guild and gets things done.

I am guy 6...who are you?

I'm the guy who likes when doing dps is about skill and is fair, not about who lucks the most in an arbitrary and vague attempt at some form of horizontal character progression

[Deleted]

Honest Blizzard answer: "We removed reforging because there was no RNG involved. Kappa"

This. Reforging countered RNG which made grinding BiS less important. Crucible fosters RNG.

[Lochton]

I thought they removed reforging because the majority couldn't think about gear management.

Currently, I enjoy the idea.

[Karon]

which prevents it from being traded




and now you wont be able to throw relics on the fly because you have to get to the crucible to upgrade them

i mean what was it 4 years ago they came out to speak against this very thing in their wod previews, do they forget that quickly?

If previewing it makes it soulbound then by all means, fuck this shit o.O

[shaunika123]

I thought they removed reforging because the majority couldn't think about gear management.

Currently, I enjoy the idea.

and what makes you think they can now?

their major points were:

1. it complicates the gearing process, which crucible definitely does
2. it makes you go out of the raid to complete the gearing process, which crucible definitely does
3. it makes you more uncertain of upgrades, which crucible definitely does

4. in legion they also said: We'd like higher ilvl items to be mostly a clear upgrade, which this clearly complicates and makes less likely

add to it that's it's completely random
and congratulations, youve got a horrible system

literally no way of knowing if a dropped item is an upgrade or not without having to go outside the raid, to a stone on a spaceship, and then do a simulationcraft on then randomly generated bonuses it yields, is just not good.

if you knew what the relic would give right away when it drops, it'd be a tad less horrible(it'd still be horrible dont get me wrong, but more managable)

[rhorle]

I'm the guy who likes when doing dps is about skill and is fair, not about who lucks the most in an arbitrary and vague attempt at some form of horizontal character progression

WoW is never that game. WoW has always been about random drops impacting your dps. If you didn't get them and someone else did you would suffer. There are people that went entire expansions without seeing their "BIS" drops. Skill has always been the thing that allows you to overcome the gear gap.

[Kakera]

Most sane people either quit during this expansion and don't plan to return or are going to see how 8.0 looks before completely uninstalling so unsure why this is an issue.

[Shakou]

Meanwhile in reality, as they already do people are only going to go after relics with the best traits or close 2nd place and as far as 2nd NCL traits go those are all mediocre unless you get procs of the same 2nd NCL tcl trait on multiple relics.

Also what strange animal is this that relies on raids 100% for relics?

[rhorle]

1. it complicates the gearing process, which crucible definitely does

Not really. If it has one of your better traits when it drops it has a chance of being useful.

3. it makes you more uncertain of upgrades, which crucible definitely does

Not really. You have 3 chances at a useful second trait and two chances at at a useful passive per relic. You still base if it is an upgrade or not off of what information you can see when it drops. Because the Primary trait and item level are still the two most important factors of a relic even with NLC.

4. in legion they also said: We'd like higher ilvl items to be mostly a clear upgrade, which this clearly complicates and makes less likely

Mostly. And they mostly are.

and congratulations, youve got a horrible system

Only to those that don't have a good grasp of their class or those who are to focused on min maxing. Unless you are the top 1% of WoW raiders you don't need to min max to that degree.