Koralon Mentallity

[Aerikaya]

So did Koralon last night on 25man, on shot, easy mode. Boss is down, and we move to Emalon. One dumb warlock facepulls the Emalon trash while were doing loot. He leaves the raid, followed by 2 other DPS. Our DPS was high enough so we head to Emalon down 3. We get to the 3rd overcharge and the DPS fail horribly, several dead from chain lightning and one moron warrior from nova. Run back in and over the course of the loading screen we lose 4 more dps. At this point we are in shock that so many people just ditched. And of course no one is going to join a group with the new boss down so we have to abandon Emalon, which still had upgrades for several members and most of us could use offset/PvP gear. I port back to Dalaran and see several more complaints about this in trade chat.

Anyone else experiencing this? My solution is two-fold. Due to the new loot trade feature, I am not giving out loot until the very end, also will NEVER do Koralon first again.

[Theatrice]

You should never pug in the first place.

OR if you do, expect this to happen.

[_Cin]

i still think the bosses in VoA should be consecutive, in that you HAVE to kill archavon to reach emalon, then after killing emalon koralon is opened. When i rerolled to join a mate on a diff server, i could NEVER get into voa groups (this was pre-3.2, so just arc and ema) simply because i wasnt geared for emalon. Now i can understand thing, but i think people have gotten too selfish in that they will get a raid for emalon, do it, and will only do arc for shits and giggles cos they obviously dont NEED the loot if they can do emalon easy enough. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense on blizzards part, to make content unavailable due to the fact that noone will do it. Sure it's still there... but find me a raid that will just do arc, or at least do arc first THEN emalon. I don't expect to be carried through Emalon, i'm happy to be replaced if my deeps suck ass.

But yes, my 2 cents.

tl:dr = make koralon and emalon available only after killing the boss before it. So Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon.

[ullie]

tl:dr = make koralon and emalon available only after killing the boss before it. So Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon.

^this

[Deralte]

Again, such problems doesnt exist to this extend on german realms. I pugged Koralon 10 and 25, and even though we didnt one shot either, people didnt leave until the end.

[bockbear]

I've seen people dropping for Arch many times in the last month or so, since obviously no one needs it. For me, I see it as 2 free badges in <5 minutes so why not do it. But I can see this happening more and more as people get more gear. It does suck, you go into an instance to clear it (at least I do).

I've seen the same thing in Heroics. Old kingdom the other day only did the bosses necessary to get the daily quest done. I understand why people do that (>350 conquest badges, who really needs more), but still.

[Daez]

We downed Korolon and it took us three attempts. By the time we got him down, WG reset, so now I am pretty much missing Emalon for the week although Emalon drops upgrades. I'm dealing with it though.

Emalon is a much harder fight then Korolon in that the dps needs to not suck. DPS by their very nature just suck. In Korolon, they have to move out of fires and most of them fail to do that. What was even more sad is that the only wipes we have had so far on Korolon is from healers not moving out of the fire and that is just sad.

[Daez]

You should never pug in the first place.

OR if you do, expect this to happen.

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

[Daez]

Again, such problems doesnt exist to this extend on german realms. I pugged Koralon 10 and 25, and even though we didnt one shot either, people didnt leave until the end.

That is because German people are at heart socialist. Socialist is not a dirty word (unless you are speaking at a Repug convention). It means the people actually give a damn about each other more than they do themselves. That is a foreign concept here in the states for the vast majority of people.

[Deleted]

also will NEVER do Koralon first again.

I will never PUG with a group that doesn't kill Koralon first. He is the hardest and I don't want to be locked out of Triumph badges. I would rather find a group sometime else.

[Daez]

I will never PUG with a group that doesn't kill Koralon first. He is the hardest and I don't want to be locked out of Triumph badges. I would rather find a group sometime else.

I don't even think he is the hardest. He is the hardest on the healers. That is about it. However, Blizzard balances everything on the back of healers in this game. So, healers are used to rocking. Emalon actually requires amazing dps, and those are hard to find in a pug, so I still say Emalon is harder.

Korolon also won't be as hard once everyone gets into T9 gear and gets enough stamina to leave some room for error in the flame whirl thing that he does.

[treston323]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

With Koralon just coming out this week and t9 pretty hard to get in 25man ToC, I can't see any good guild NOT doing it weekly

[Butterball]

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA. So, people pug it all the time, so try not to bring your holier than thou attitude to the thread.

My guild fits it in at the start or end of a raid when we have WG. Much easier, faster kills, no loot drama. Guilds FTW.

[dino]

people are in general very selfish and or self centered. so if you pug, expect it to happen indeed.

the suggestion of making bosses available one after another is pretty good I want to add... why?

I did pug 10man yesterday, killed kora, then ema and stood before archa when the DK tank says something along the lines of "you know after killing kora and ema, archa should just kneel down and hand over the loot."

I don't think I need anything from ema anymore or archa for that matter but I still like to raid them. You're there, it's almost no effort associated with it if you have a decent group and badges can be used to buy runed orbs, even if you just sell them.

[Xianth]

i still think the bosses in VoA should be consecutive, in that you HAVE to kill archavon to reach emalon, then after killing emalon koralon is opened. When i rerolled to join a mate on a diff server, i could NEVER get into voa groups (this was pre-3.2, so just arc and ema) simply because i wasnt geared for emalon. Now i can understand thing, but i think people have gotten too selfish in that they will get a raid for emalon, do it, and will only do arc for shits and giggles cos they obviously dont NEED the loot if they can do emalon easy enough. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense on blizzards part, to make content unavailable due to the fact that noone will do it. Sure it's still there... but find me a raid that will just do arc, or at least do arc first THEN emalon. I don't expect to be carried through Emalon, i'm happy to be replaced if my deeps suck ass.

But yes, my 2 cents.

tl:dr = make koralon and emalon available only after killing the boss before it. So Archavon -> Emalon -> Koralon.

Or spend time doing heroics and getting better gear so you are able to do emalon?

I think you're only losing out because 90% of people who play wow are shit and pull 2k DPS in 213-226 epics and that's not blizzards fault.

[Fizzprocket]

My guild ran and will run VoA25 (although, only Koralon, and perhaps Emalon), because it's free badges and can drop PvE loot, which will help in heroic ToC and the weekly Ulduar farmage. Whoever said only fail guilds would do Koralon together, is probably in one of those. When you have WG, not going there before raid start for 5-6 minutes for a good chance of PvE upgrades would be rather stupid, in my opinion.

On my alt and 10-man, I PuG VoA, but I ain't joining a PuG that doesn't kill Koralon first, because those will invariably fail at Emalon, and I get saved to an instance with the only boss I care about still alive. No thanks.

The solution is to do good PuGs, bringing at least a good handful of people you already pugged with, so they won't leave.

[draconnie]

First, if you want to get a PuG going that does Archavon first, then Emalon, and then Koralon, I wish you goodluck with finding the people to do it.
Why is that so hard? because people don't want to be locked out of an instance for the duration of a week. If they join a PuG, they want to be sure they have a decent shot at Koralon and Emalon.
The idea of not handing the loot until the end does seem cleaver though.
But you have to make sure you clear it within 2 hours then

I've yet to see a guild run VOA together unless the guild was trash and the only thing they could actually clear was VOA.

My guild (which is not a bunch of retards, but a decent, semi-hardcore raiding guild) does run Guild-only VoA runs (only 25-mens though, 10-mens are up to the players discretion) for the simple reason it is fast, gives good loot (Koralon drops T9), and drops badges.
This helps us in the gearing up process to conquer Ulduar hardmodes, and ToC Hc.
So please get you facts straight.

[GlassShardx]

Assuming average drops and a decent guild, it takes about 12-14 weeks to give all 25 raiders 5/5 T8. Also keep in mind that that time is reduced because the helm and chestpiece have been buyable with Conquest badges, so lets assume everyone buys one tier piece.

25 raiders, 5 bosses that drop tier, and 2 tier from each. Each raider needs 4 token drops, so 100 token drops needed. With 10 token drops per week, that gives you 10 weeks. Now also factor in the fact that tier 8 wasn't all BiS, so not everyone needs the token. But some people will say, "my guild had bad luck with the token types that dropped" so lets just bring the amount of weeks needed back up to 12.

Now ulduar has been out since ...May? About 17 or 18 weeks I think. The first 2 weeks were full of bugs I think so lets not count those. That means the average raiding guild had plenty of time to get people Tier 8 gear, especially since the legs and gloves drop from 2 of the easier bosses, thats not even assuming everyone did VoA since emalon was released to get their tier piece.

In the end, my conclusions/points are pretty simple.

1. If your guild consistently raids and has been raiding ulduar, you more then likely shouldn't need the gear from emalon or the conquest badges.

2. If your guild started raiding ulduar really late, then they should really be farming 25man and 10man ToC for gear that is better then Tier 8 and is from an easier instance. Between farming ulduar and ToC, again you really don't need gear from Emalon.

3. People who aren't in raiding guilds are the only ones who should really complain but its still not a huge problem since ToC was designed to be puggable.

Really its not a huge deal, besides all that, the chances of emalon dropping gear you can use are kinda low anyways.

[elcher]

Again, such problems dont exist to this extend on german realms. I pugged Koralon 10 and 25, and even though we didnt one shot either, people didnt leave until the end.

yep, same mentality on my realm .

(why does it seem that all these people living in the US/england are so often letdowns or worse??)

[Fizzprocket]

In the end, my conclusions/points are pretty simple.

1. If your guild consistently raids and has been raiding ulduar, you more then likely shouldn't need the gear from emalon or the conquest badges.

2. If your guild started raiding ulduar really late, then they should really be farming 25man and 10man ToC for gear that is better then Tier 8 and is from an easier instance. Between farming ulduar and ToC, again you really don't need gear from Emalon.

3. People who aren't in raiding guilds are the only ones who should really complain but its still not a huge problem since ToC was designed to be puggable.

Really its not a huge deal, besides all that, the chances of emalon dropping gear you can use are kinda low anyways.

You forget offspecs & new recruits. Both of which might very well want gear from either conquest or emalon (I know I do. I still don't have T8.5 DPS legs, and dps being my offspec, my ArP is kinda wank, nor do I have Grim Toll or Mjolnir's, neither of which seem to drop when I'm in the raid, so I'm forced into 4t8(.5) to do okayish dps. Having only t8 legs is kinda meh.)