Shadowy apparition, your toughts about it.

[Lufia]

Hey guys!

Since Cata came up we got some nice new talents. For exemple, we finally have a CD to pop "Dark archangel" when needed. Mind sear is getting a boost in next patch, so we should have less to worry about our AE damage. Also, our mastery is getting boosted a bit.

There is one talent that could still use a boost tough, and I'dd like to know what you guys think about it : shadowy apparition.

I know they are intended to move slow...but perhaps a bit too slow. On non-boss fight, I rarelly see them hitting mobs, because they are usually dead before they reach them. Maybe they could increase their speed a bit? Up the % for them to spawn? Or make them go automaticaly to a new target when the main target die, rather then vanishing?

I'm also looking at the 4-set bonus of tier 11....+30% damage to shadowy apparition. I'm really wondering how much of a dps boost it will be. Personnaly, I don't think shadowy apparitions are THAT great to get a spot at our 4-set bonus (2-set bonus seems a bigger boost to me).

Think the talent need a boost? Or it's fine as it is?

[Deleted]

Yes, i've been noticing that in pvp, my shadow apperition never hits. 30%?! each shadow apperition crits 10-12k, I mean thats really nice, If they can hit ofc.

[Lufia]

I was mainly talking about pve, since I don't pvp much, but I'dd be glad to hear more opinions about pvp too .

[New]

I simmed this out a couple weeks ago but I suppose a re-run of the simulation could prove useful:

Using Patchwerk Style Fights:

Priest_Shadow_T11_372 : 24006dps

			DPS	DPS%	Count	Interval    DPE	     Hit    Crit     Max    Crit%
shadowy_apparition	1049	4.4%	29.9	16.43sec  17548	1   13259   26536   30184   32.3%

Priest_Shadow_T11_372 4-Piece Disabled : 23769dps

			DPS	DPS%	Count	Interval    DPE	     Hit    Crit     Max    Crit%
shadowy_apparition	809	3.4%	30.0	16.28sec   17548    13482   20416   23218   32.1%

This leads to a DPS increase of 237 or ~80 Intellect.

Helter Skelter Style Fights:

Priest_Shadow_T11_372 : 21305dps

			DPS	DPS%	Count	Interval    DPE	     Hit    Crit     Max    Crit%
shadowy_apparition	1538	7.2%	43.9	11.21sec   17497    13234   26480   30184   32.2%

Priest_Shadow_T11_372 4-Piece disabled : 20966

			DPS	DPS%	Count	Interval    DPE	     Hit    Crit     Max    Crit%
shadowy_apparition	1190	5.7%	44.1	11.16sec   13482    10180   20368   23218   32.4%

This is a difference of 339 DPS or ~114 Intellect.

Conclusion: I would expect the DPS increase on these to be even higher in practice. Therefore, I believe it is a good idea to go with the 4-set bonus.

[Wiarumas]

I was mainly talking about pve, since I don't pvp much, but I'dd be glad to hear more opinions about pvp too .

Same with pvp honestly. Nobody ever stands still, so there will be 3 or 4 apparitions wandering slowly towards some guy 100 yards away or dead. Honestly it's more of a decoy than anything. I've seen warriors target and charge apparitions rather than me in BGs. I suppose it's the result of tab targeting rather than checking name and guild.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I don't really like the Shadowy Apparitions. They don't spawn nearly as much as they should, even when I'm frantically running. Plus the fact that you can only have 4 of them at a time killed the cool shadow army you could make from putting SW: P on a bunch of mobs and running in circles. Could've been a great crutch of an AoE during these trying times while we wait for Mind Seer to be viable

[Lufia]

Same with pvp honestly. Nobody ever stands still, so there will be 3 or 4 apparitions wandering slowly towards some guy 100 yards away or dead. Honestly it's more of a decoy than anything. I've seen warriors target and charge apparitions rather than me in BGs. I suppose it's the result of tab targeting rather than checking name and guild.

I'dd have to agree with the decoy part. In a few Tol barad I did, since I mostly tab to switch target, I sometimes tab an apparition and I'm like "doh!".

[Obtuse]

I dropped Shadowy Apparitions in PvP altogether as they would never reach their target in time or were easily avoided. Those 3 points are better spent elsewhere.

As for PvE, I know they improve my dps and damn do they look good when they do actually proc but I secretly loathe that I need my shadowy apparitions to proc in order to reach max dps. Especially with the 4 piece set bonus, it will be even more important.

Plus I'm a terrible shadow priest and probably shouldn't play that class.

[zerachiel]

I miss having 30-40 of these things at the choke-point in AV slowly marching up the hill

[Arlee]

I actually like the shadowy apparitions a lot. I think they are different and fun. Maybe they could stand to have a little bit of a boost but honestly I feel like Shadow dps is pretty awesome as it is right (and especially after they fix mind sear). I do miss having an army of them though, that was just fun

Also, this is entirely a pve point of view

[adilina]

I wish they can fly coz lots of pve bosses has air phase and become unhittable by shadowy apparition. Their proc chance remains as 12% when you are jumping, no matter if you are jumping on the same spot or around. So run, and stay close to targets if you are multi-dotting.

In single target fights, spriest is on the weak side. Its power shows only when there are multiple targets to put dots on.

Mind sear will be buffed but only by 15% according to the latest note. So don't put too much hope on it.

Also, has anyone noticed that spriest dps shows up about 1000 lower on other people's recount? Other classes seemed to be on spot.

[Laorne]

I wish they can fly coz lots of pve bosses has air phase and become unhittable by shadowy apparition. Their proc chance remains as 12% when you are jumping, no matter if you are jumping on the same spot or around. So run, and stay close to targets if you are multi-dotting.

In single target fights, spriest is on the weak side. Its power shows only when there are multiple targets to put dots on.

Mind sear will be buffed but only by 15% according to the latest note. So don't put too much hope on it.

Also, has anyone noticed that spriest dps shows up about 1000 lower on other people's recount? Other classes seemed to be on spot.

The reason for this is because the combat log does not track shadowy apparations to it's owner. So it tracks properly on your own recount but to anyone else the apparations are not linked to you. This is also true for world of logs and if you have multiple shadow priests in your raid the shadowy apparations are all clumped together. I have submitted tickets hoping for a fix but so far on the PTR it has not been fixed. This is true across the board for any guardian type pets for the most part. Doomguards are not being tacked on to warlock's either.

[Arlee]

In single target fights, spriest is on the weak side. Its power shows only when there are multiple targets to put dots on.

Mind sear will be buffed but only by 15% according to the latest note. So don't put too much hope on it.

Also, has anyone noticed that spriest dps shows up about 1000 lower on other people's recount? Other classes seemed to be on spot.

Actually I find multidotting to be where dps goes down because that's when I start to have mana issues. Single target I seem to stay right with and sometimes go above other classes on dps. Post above is exactly why recount gives different results and why some people under value them.

[Lufia]

I actually like the shadowy apparitions a lot. I think they are different and fun. Maybe they could stand to have a little bit of a boost but honestly I feel like Shadow dps is pretty awesome as it is right (and especially after they fix mind sear). I do miss having an army of them though, that was just fun

Spriest dps do feel alright currently. But still, I don't think it's a reason to rely on that talent so much for "max dps", especially not as a 4-set bonus.

[Akiraislonggone]

It was a lot cooler in ptr, I recall like 30 of those things coming out, one by one, owning fools in bgs and in dungeons, I wish they didn't tone them down

[Aleksej89]

Worst talent ever.
Redesign it please.

[MoanaLisa]

I wanted to add Silence to my build for PVE. I needed 3 points to do it. I took two out of Improved Mind Blast because we don't cast MB on CD any longer and 1 out of SA because SA accounts for about 4% of my damage usually. Now it accounts for about 3.7% which inside margin of error for stuff happening.

And now I have Silence.

So unless they get redesigned into something else, I'm happy enough when they proc but other than that I don't pay attention to them nor do anything much to generate them. If I'm moving, I'm moving for some other reason than to proc Apparitions.

[SISSRU]

The reason for this is because the combat log does not track shadowy apparations to it's owner. So it tracks properly on your own recount but to anyone else the apparations are not linked to you. This is also true for world of logs and if you have multiple shadow priests in your raid the shadowy apparations are all clumped together. I have submitted tickets hoping for a fix but so far on the PTR it has not been fixed. This is true across the board for any guardian type pets for the most part. Doomguards are not being tacked on to warlock's either.

yeah I REALLY hate the combat log problem with shadowy apparation. I'm afraid Bliizard even recognize this

[Lufia]

I wanted to add Silence to my build for PVE. I needed 3 points to do it. I took two out of Improved Mind Blast because we don't cast MB on CD any longer and 1 out of SA because SA accounts for about 4% of my damage usually. Now it accounts for about 3.7% which inside margin of error for stuff happening.

And now I have Silence.

So unless they get redesigned into something else, I'm happy enough when they proc but other than that I don't pay attention to them nor do anything much to generate them. If I'm moving, I'm moving for some other reason than to proc Apparitions.

Been a while since I actually picked silence, because of the 2 damn points we STILL need to put into IPS to get it (wich is worthless in pve). If only we could just put one point and get it, like Psychic horror. Also, like you, I'll only move for a reason, not just for a chance to proc apparitions.

[Nesco]

They're male for me.


I'd say, stand closer to the mobs in heroics and trash. Some trash from raids and heroics have targetted AoE abilities so this helps the healing.