DK PvP Heals

[Diraunta]

Hey guys!

I checked for other threads on this subject and (surprisingly?) could not find any. I probably just suck at everything

I really only PvP in this game, and while I have generally learned to just accept that PvP is imbalanced, and I know it's not balanced around duels or 2s, etc. etc. it seems like the heals DKs have for themselves in PvP are a little ridiculous. But I don't play one, so I must be biased or something.

My main question is, can anyone explain to me why Blizzard nerfs stuff like (for example) Ret Paladin self-healing so heavily, but is okay with DKs healing themselves for ridiculous amounts in addition to all of their survival abilities, all while doing respectable amounts of damage? Do these DKs really need these heals for PvE that badly? Blood seems to heal the most, but that's... a tanking spec. And tanks are supposed to get heals, right?

I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, so I'm just gonna come right out and ask it. Why is Blizzard perfectly fine with DKs being so powerful (might I say, overpowered)?

I'm not asking this to say WTF I LOST IN A DUEL WHY DOES MY CLASS SUCK, or anything. I'm just asking because I'm sure I'm missing something, somewhere, some logical point that justifies DKs being so OMGWTF in PvP, and someone will tell it to me and I'll be all like, OHHH OKAY, makes sense, and DKs won't seem so overpowered anymore. Anyone know Blizzard's logic on this, or have any opinions?

Sorry if I typed too much. Thanks!

[DiscoGhost]

i concur, its op. i play the class and ill admit right now, its stupid how op it is. but here's the thing:

hero class!

[Ratscissors]

lol why u mad tho?

[Razorice]

Blood is just OP because it needs the heals for PvE and "nerfing" it would cause Blood dk's in PvE to be veru useless

[unholyskipper]

well id like to say our dps output is not the best compared to other classes
..Its not that much worse but still noticable
the heals also really help since we are pretty easy to kite (at low skill levels)(it took me at least 100+ arena matches to get the hand of fighting of being kited as a dk)(im speaking of course at 1500+ rating below that arena is a joke)
and noone uses blood dks at high ratings so im not talking about them

[Diraunta]

lol why u mad tho?

Hahaha not mad, just puzzled

i concur, its op. i play the class and ill admit right now, its stupid how op it is. but here's the thing:

hero class!

I'll admit I'm a little relieved to hear someone else say this. Is it really just this simple? Is it just crazy OP and Blizzard just doesn't give a hoot?

I'd like more opinions, if anyone has them

---------- Post added 2011-05-19 at 12:39 AM ----------

Blood is just OP because it needs the heals for PvE and "nerfing" it would cause Blood dk's in PvE to be veru useless

I saw a few videos a few weeks-ish ago (or around then) on MMOC of DKs soloing stuff like Cata Heroic bosses (2 at once, oh snap) and some pretty tough WotLK bosses (at least, tough to solo).

Do they really need those heals?

[Decan]

Well they need to fix blood so it takes less damage then for tanking not give then insane healing.

[unholyskipper]

I saw a few videos a few weeks-ish ago (or around then) on MMOC of DKs soloing stuff like Cata Heroic bosses (2 at once, oh snap) and some pretty tough WotLK bosses (at least, tough to solo).

Do they really need those heals?

Yes they do...It may be hard to believe but there are blood dks which are flat out amazing ...but most are just average and i really hope they dont change the blood tanking style its very new and unique and really it doesnt bother pvp at high ratings but its actually a really well done style for pve (they are the average tanks at the moment not the best nor worst)
obviously the healing style does make soloing quite simple but i still believe that pvp should not be the basis to take away dk blood healing

[DamnItDinkleberg]

Blood is just OP because it needs the heals for PvE and "nerfing" it would cause Blood dk's in PvE to be veru useless

I main a DK and know that Frost's and Unholy's PvP healing via Death Strike is a bit much(Especially for tree's that don't revolve around self healing. Not that I want it nerfed though :P), and the reason is because of the Dark Succor Glyph which makes it a guaranteed 15% heal. Originally they implemented the Glyph because self-healing was always a flavor of being a Dk, and the original 7% heal was too low. The 15% heal with 120k+ hp pools is too much though. Imo a 10-12% heal would be the most balanced option, but if it stays 15% again I'm not complaining.

[Laurik]

besides blood which is only used in rateds or 2v2's <(like they matter). Dks sacrifice dps to heal. Whether it be runic power or runes, we have to go almost completely defensive to heal ourselves sorta like a warrior walling/regen. I don't find it OP at all in higher ranked 3v3's or 5v5's. I only see it looking "OP" in 1v1 and that is bleh

[Diraunta]

Yes they do...It may be hard to believe but there are blood dks which are flat out amazing ...but most are just average and i really hope they dont change the blood tanking style its very new and unique and really it doesnt bother pvp at high ratings but its actually a really well done style for pve (they are the average tanks at the moment not the best nor worst)
obviously the healing style does make soloing quite simple but i still believe that pvp should not be the basis to take away dk blood healing

Well, here's where we disagree, I guess. I don't PvE on anything other than my resto shaman, so I know close to nothing about tanking, but I tend to feel like if something is this ridiculous...

But then again, it's not even just blood. It seems to be just about every DK spec.

I'm okay with a little imbalance in PvP - Some classes are naturally going to have advantages over others, with interrupts, snares, etc... so if I lose to a class that has a slight advantage over me, I can be like, awww, that sucks, oh well, I tried my best, and got close; if I ever feel like getting frustrated, I remind myself it's just a game.

But when it's like, wow, there is just no way to beat those heals, and those survival cooldowns, and I play everything exactly right, down to the wire, on almost any class, and no matter what happens there is just no way --- well, it just seems unfair.

I just wanted to get some thoughts here before I take a few questions/suggestions to the WoW forums (LOL AS IF that'll get anything done!). When something is this out of whack in PvP, and there are ways to change it without making PvE suffer - well, it just seems like that would be the right choice, but... I must still be missing something here

inb4 "life ain't fair"

---------- Post added 2011-05-19 at 01:05 AM ----------

I main a DK and know that Frost's and Unholy's PvP healing via Death Strike is a bit much(Especially for tree's that don't revolve around self healing. Not that I want it nerfed though :P), and the reason is because of the Dark Succor Glyph which makes it a guaranteed 15% heal. Originally they implemented the Glyph because self-healing was always a flavor of being a Dk, and the original 7% heal was too low. The 15% heal with 120k+ hp pools is too much though. Imo a 10-12% heal would be the most balanced option, but if it stays 15% again I'm not complaining.

I feel ya here; when your class is doing pretty well for itself, why complain? I guess I wouldn't either.

But it seems like a lot of DKs are like, "oh, yeah, we're a little OP, for sure. lol but don't tell blizz! shhhh" and, well... it just doesn't seem right.

If DKs sacrifice any amount of DPS for the sake of healing, I don't think I've ever noticed. I try to kite, run, DPS, all the normal stuff, and my health just keeps on going down at the same rate, only theirs suddenly starts to go up. Blahhh

[Ooldoong]

I find a lot of people don't approach DKs properly in a fight, lose, and complain on a forum.

[Yum]

I find a lot of people don't approach DKs properly in a fight, lose, and complain on a forum.

Precisely my friend.

[Crunkosaurus]

Blood is just OP because it needs the heals for PvE and "nerfing" it would cause Blood dk's in PvE to be very useless

Not a legitimate excuse imo, they changed Colossus Smash so that it wasn't as op in PvP but remained 100% in PvE, wtb this for DK abilities?

[tibbywinkz3]

uhh ya, just faced a dk/mage team in 2s and the dk was like 5%, popped anti magic shield and death striked to full hp in 3-5 swings....OP much?

[letsmangle]

blood is a little redic but beatable. keep distance dot and run.

Otherwise dks (if play em right) pretty much have lay on hands. But ret pally healin needed a nerf.

[Suphix]

They stopped mastery stacking in any presence but blood and this was really the major problem. If you still can't beat them now it's your problem really, and not the fault of the DK.

[Flexxtar]

uhh ya, just faced a dk/mage team in 2s and the dk was like 5%, popped anti magic shield and death striked to full hp in 3-5 swings....OP much?

Yes, your post is indeed OP
Because death strike only heals 15%, with 5 swings that would be 75% of his health. Which would mean he would have used 5 frost runes and 5 unholy runes, which is pretty much impossible, unless blowing the big cooldown (refreshing the runes, forgot the name).

Which also means he didn't do squat damage.

[Hellforge]

i dont thk so OP
DK heals is not OP at all, which part of their skill is healing them at all?
u dont use deathstrike in frost unholy? unlesss u are really dying and dont mind sacrificing one DS over obliterate

or if you are in blood spec, it only heals 7% of hp....
whats 7%? lol?
give DK a stun lock...thats it. no more healing...

---------- Post added 2011-05-19 at 02:14 PM ----------

Yes, your post is indeed OP
Because death strike only heals 15%, with 5 swings that would be 75% of his health. Which would mean he would have used 5 frost runes and 5 unholy runes, which is pretty much impossible, unless blowing the big cooldown (refreshing the runes, forgot the name).

Which also means he didn't do squat damage.

exactly...there's no way to say 15% heal is alot, in frost/unholy using DS?
you are going to be doing some spongbob strikes

[Deleted]

I saw a few videos a few weeks-ish ago (or around then) on MMOC of DKs soloing stuff like Cata Heroic bosses (2 at once, oh snap) and some pretty tough WotLK bosses (at least, tough to solo).

Do they really need those heals?

he was in unholy presence while kiting those mobs and the blood abilities were still fully healing him, they fixed it so you have to be in blood presance to get the heals now and in blood you do less damadge and don't run as fast.