Current Haste Plateaus for all 3 specs.

[Asrialol]

People keep asking, grr.. Since I've taken the time and money to make my own site with lots of hunters stuff, I naturally made a post about the haste plateaus. I'll keep it short here.

Note: If you mainly use Aimed Shot to focus dump, ignore haste plateaus. This play style doesn't prioritize using Chimera Shot on cooldown, thus you don't really need to be at a certain plateau. You want to stack as much haste as you can.

Marksmanship Plateau without the Chimera Glyph

Plateau 1: 4 SS, 2 AS and 1 CS in 10 seconds - 0 haste rating needed, only Imp. SS.
Plateau 2: 4 SS, 3 AS and 1 CS in 10 seconds - 299 haste rating, 5.40% haste with 3/3 pathing.
Plateau 3: 5 SS, 2 AS and 1 CS in 10 seconds - 1235 haste rating, 12.93% haste with 3/3 pathing.
Plateau 4: 5 SS, 3 AS and 1 CS in 10 seconds - 3575 haste rating, 31.75% haste with 3/3 pathing.

Recommendation: Go for the 3rd Plateau.


Marksmanship Plateau with the Chimera Glyph

Plateau 1: 4 SS, 2 AS and 1 CS in 9 seconds - 299 haste rating, 5.40% haste with 3/3 pathing
Plateau 2: 4 SS, 3 AS and 1 CS in 9 seconds - 2920 haste rating, 26.48% haste with 3/3 pathing.
Plateau 3: 5 SS, 2 AS and 1 CS in 9 seconds - 3575 haste rating, 31.75% haste with 3/3 pathing.
Plateau 4: 5 SS, 3 AS and 1 CS in 9 seconds - 6851 haste rating, 58.10% haste with 3/3 pathing.
"Plateau 5": 5 SS, 1 AS and 1 CS in 9 seconds - 1235 haste rating, 12.93% haste with 3/3 pathing.

Recommendation: The "5th" plateau will make you focus capped, but it's the only realistic one with T12 gear, unless you somehow manage to get your haste to 299, which is doubtful. There isn't any "good" plateaus for the Chimera Shot glyph with current tier gear. We might be able to get to the 2nd Plateau in T13. Bottom line, if you use more than 2 GCDs per cycle on Arcane Shot, Kill Shot, Instant Aimed Shot or similar, you will end up having to either wait for, or delay Chimera Shot.
You can of course go for the 1st Plateau and just wait for the Chimera cooldown with a bit higher haste level, but is it really worth it?


Survival Haste Plateaus

Plateau 1: 3 CS and 1 ES in 6 seconds - 758 haste rating, 9.09% haste with 3/3 pathing
Plateau 2: 4 CS and 1 ES in 6 seconds - 5278 haste rating, 45.45% haste with 3/3 pathing.
"Plateau 3": 4 CS and 1 ES in 7 seconds - 2264 haste rating, 21.21% haste with 3/3 pathing.

Recommendation: Go for the 758 plateau. There is a "3rd" plateau, you basically do the same dmg with 4 CS and 1 ES in 7 seconds as 3 CS and 1 ES in 6 seconds. You do of course get more auto shots, but the loss in crit to reach this haste level isn't really worth it.


Beast Mastery Haste Plateaus

Plateau 1: 3 CS, 1 AS and 1 KC in 7 seconds - 0 haste rating needed, already there.
Plateau 2: 3 CS, 1 AS and 1 KC in 6 seconds - 1937 haste rating, 18.58% haste with 3/3 pathing.

Recommendation: The 2nd plateau is easily reachable with T12 gear, specially if it's 391 ilvl. If you can get there with your current gear, go for it, even if you have to sacrifice crit.


That sums it up for the haste plateaus, which has been updated to NOT reflect T11 4cp, and is only for T12. It is also what you want for T13 as long as the cast times aren't changing, and of course you'll be able to MAYBE hit the next plateaus, depending on how much haste you can get from T13 gear.

If I've messed up somewhere, let me know.

You can click my signature for the whole thing.

[krallamulla]

Good job sir!

[Deleted]

The only thing i would like to mention and i dont have math to back this up only some what i feel is common sense, if the only thing you do during a fight is stand still and shoot at the boss then i dont think you are doing the fight wrong, because of movement, utility spells such as traps, tranq or multi shot or running away to another add/boss kiting or what ever the idea of haste platoues is good in theory but i feel that it wont really make much difference unless its a patchwerk fight.

Any math or anything to prove me wrong would be good because i my self dont have anything to back this up its just that fitting x steady x arcane between chimera shot cooldown only work if thats the only thing you do.

And such as RF, trinket procs BL/hero will screw your "rotation".

[Firebyrd]

The only thing i would like to mention and i dont have math to back this up only some what i feel is common sense, if the only thing you do during a fight is stand still and shoot at the boss then i dont think you are doing the fight wrong, because of movement, utility spells such as traps, tranq or multi shot or running away to another add/boss kiting or what ever the idea of haste platoues is good in theory but i feel that it wont really make much difference unless its a patchwerk fight.

Any math or anything to prove me wrong would be good because i my self dont have anything to back this up its just that fitting x steady x arcane between chimera shot cooldown only work if thats the only thing you do.

And such as RF, trinket procs BL/hero will screw your "rotation".

I can't speak for MM, but for BM, getting to the 1937 really makes for a different feel. It makes it so you have to watch your focus even more closely with the T12 4pc proc, but it makes things like movement much easier because more often than not the shot cycle is KC-2xCoS-2xAS. With three instants available in a six second time period (four if RF or hero are up), it gives a lot of flexibility without having to switch into fox. Last week I went for the haste, this week I went for the crit just because FD shows it as a higher dps for me, but I think I'm going to swap back to getting the haste because it just felt like things snapped into place better.

[Shazzia]

Thank you! <33333

[Deleted]

I can't speak for MM, but for BM, getting to the 1937 really makes for a different feel. It makes it so you have to watch your focus even more closely with the T12 4pc proc, but it makes things like movement much easier because more often than not the shot cycle is KC-2xCoS-2xAS. With three instants available in a six second time period (four if RF or hero are up), it gives a lot of flexibility without having to switch into fox. Last week I went for the haste, this week I went for the crit just because FD shows it as a higher dps for me, but I think I'm going to swap back to getting the haste because it just felt like things snapped into place better.

Yea but you still need to use utility spells or possibly AoE.

If we take FL as a example and from my perspective.
Shannox, i need to break facerage and kite the dog and because of that i save my chimera shot for that and dont use chimera on shannox att all: On shannox the haste platoue dont work for me.
Beth, i solo the spiderlings and broderlings witch makes me jump around and do a lot of AoE and ofc singletarget between spawns, p2 tank&spank, haste platoues dont really work there because of the AoE is the most important part.
Rhyo, singlerarget on spark and leg with AoE on fragments, p2 tank&spank, wouldnt really advice going for haste platoues on this fight.
Alyz i take the meteor and one sides druid, down phase we get haste from rings and BL/hero, cant really gear with haste platoues on this fight.
Baleroc, im 1st backup on shard so i need to move a lot if im unlucky but yes mostly tank&spank so haste platoues on this fight good to go for.
Domo, cat jumps and orbs so i need to move a lot but i can move using instants so that shouldnt really change my dps to much.
Rag, p1 tank&spank from a hunter PoV, p2 single target with AoE and movement during WiF p3 high dps req with high movement, p4 mostly tank&spank with low to medium movement depending on 1 or 2 meteors and if you need to clear dreadflames.

Personaly i wouldnt gear or reforge for haste platoues but thats just me.

[Naaw]

Asrialol for president !

[Firebyrd]

Yea but you still need to use utility spells or possibly AoE.

If we take FL as a example and from my perspective.
Shannox, i need to break facerage and kite the dog and because of that i save my chimera shot for that and dont use chimera on shannox att all: On shannox the haste platoue dont work for me.
Beth, i solo the spiderlings and broderlings witch makes me jump around and do a lot of AoE and ofc singletarget between spawns, p2 tank&spank, haste platoues dont really work there because of the AoE is the most important part.
Rhyo, singlerarget on spark and leg with AoE on fragments, p2 tank&spank, wouldnt really advice going for haste platoues on this fight.
Alyz i take the meteor and one sides druid, down phase we get haste from rings and BL/hero, cant really gear with haste platoues on this fight.
Baleroc, im 1st backup on shard so i need to move a lot if im unlucky but yes mostly tank&spank so haste platoues on this fight good to go for.
Domo, cat jumps and orbs so i need to move a lot but i can move using instants so that shouldnt really change my dps to much.
Rag, p1 tank&spank from a hunter PoV, p2 single target with AoE and movement during WiF p3 high dps req with high movement, p4 mostly tank&spank with low to medium movement depending on 1 or 2 meteors and if you need to clear dreadflames.

Personaly i wouldnt gear or reforge for haste platoues but thats just me.

I specifically noted that I was not talking about MM. I am talking about my opinion for BM haste plateaus. Different spec, different playstyle, even different roles (for example, I can't break Face Rage except in Kill Shot range, and given that I'm top dps in my group by a fair margin, gimping me by having my target in my face is generally a poor idea anyway).

[Deleted]

So as BM you never do anything but dps and also because your the grps highest dpser?

[Deepfriedegg]

Thanks Asrialol, nice work. However, I doubt this will be effective for T13. I mean, the haste plateaus themselves will be the same in T13 but the practical application will be very problematic - you would be sooooo much swimming in focus with T13 2 PC bonus that you will have to adjust the plateaus to include less Steady/Cobra Shots. Which will be kind of hard when you need to do 4 steadies to keep ISS up as MM anyway...
Not to mention T13 4PC bonus, our personal Heroism/BL that will modify our rotations even more and will make haste plateaus, or maybe in that case rather "plateaus" even more messy.

EDIT:
And well, even in T12 number of instant/cast shots change wildly depending on Hungerer procs, T12 4PC procs, Aimed procs, Kill Shot range, Termination and of course Rapid Fire and Hero. If you go for 12.93% plateau without CS glyph, how many cycles over the course of 5 minutes will actually be 1 CS, 2 AS, 5 SS - the cycle that fits your haste perfectly? Not a single one during 1 minute of Rapid fire. Not a single one during 40 seconds of Heroism. Not a single one during KS phase, that might be another 40 seconds to be conservative. You have 2:40 left. you will spent another 25% (40 seconds) with additional 15% haste from Hungerer proc. You have 2 minutes left. That is 12 Chimera cycles. On average every second cycle you will get Aimed proc. That leaves us with 6 cycles. On those 6 cycles, you will have 2.1 auto-shot speed which renders 29 autoshots during that period which will on average proc 3 Burning Adrenalines. That means another 3 cycles where you will not shoot 5 steadies and 3 instants. We have 3 CS cycles left...

Because some Aimed and BA procs occur during the same CS cycle, you will have actually more "regular" CS cycles but not more than 6. In total, on average, in 5 minutes fight, you will not use your "plateaued" rotation more than 5 times per fight... That tells quite a lot about usefulnes of those plateaus for MM, doesnt it?

Correct me if I am wrong, please.

[Firebyrd]

So as BM you never do anything but dps and also because your the grps highest dpser?

Do you even know how BM plays? It's far more flexible than MM and what you do within your shot cycles is extremely fluid. The important thing is hitting KC on cd. So yeah, hitting the haste plateau is helpful a huge majority of the time. Gotta use concussive on Riplimb? Oh, look, all I did is replace an arcane and because of the length of my cobras, I'm able to hit KC without pushing it back still! Spiderlings getting close to the drone? Oh, look, I can hit a multi-shot, again replacing an arcane, and still be able to hit KC on cd! Need to disengage to stay within shooting range of Rhyolith? Oh, look, I can do that, have the focus to hit a couple of arcanes while in the air, and still hit KC on cd! And so on and so forth.

This is my experience and my opinion with my particular raid group. I'm not claiming it's anymore than anecdotal, but for me and what I do, it works to go for the plateau.

ETA: Just as an added note, for one example, I did anywhere from 2k-14k more dps than the other people in my raid group last week on Baleroc. So yeah, maximizing my dps potential and putting me into situation where I'm focusing more on that than utility or aoe, which can often be handled better by others anyway, is important for my group's success. Yes, I know, my group is horrible, I'm horrible, we should all be ashamed, blah, blah, blah, but we kill bosses and we have fun even if we're not cutting edge. Point is, for me, it at least feels like I see a benefit from the haste plateau.

[Deleted]

Ye my bad i guess it is a lot dependent on raid composition and spec, but i still believe that haste platoues for MM hutnters is kinda over rated. As for BM as my knowledge and experience with them is very limited i cant comment on that.

[Aertea]

I'm curious how doing other jobs during a fight somehow devalues haste plateaus. Regardless of what gimmick specific fights have, we are dps class and are more often than not called to do the absolute maximum single target DPS possible. That is what plateaus are for.

[Deleted]

Please tell me you arent serious when you say just because you are a pure dps you should do nothing but dps.

[Lucyinthesky]

Please tell me you arent serious when you say just because you are a pure dps you should do nothing but dps.

Totally agree with you bro, do you mind writing my gm saying the same thing ?

[Deleted]

Why do i see hunters from top guilds with around 1800-2000 haste? Is it an aimed shot focus dump build and whats the difference in dps between that and the recommended 1235 haste arcane shot shot build?

[Asrialol]

Why do i see hunters from top guilds with around 1800-2000 haste? Is it an aimed shot focus dump build and whats the difference in dps between that and the recommended 1235 haste arcane shot shot build?

Either because they are using a Aimed Shot dump setup, or because they feel the most comfortable with that amount of haste.

[microtonal]

Survival Haste Plateaus

Plateau 1: 3 CS and 1 ES in 6 seconds - 758 haste rating, 9.09% haste with 3/3 pathing
Plateau 2: 4 CS and 1 ES in 6 seconds - 5278 haste rating, 45.45% haste with 3/3 pathing.
"Plateau 3": 4 CS and 1 ES in 7 seconds - 2264 haste rating, 21.21% haste with 3/3 pathing.

Recommendation: Go for the 758 plateau. There is a "3rd" plateau, you basically do the same dmg with 4 CS and 1 ES in 7 seconds as 3 CS and 1 ES in 6 seconds. You do of course get more auto shots, but the loss in crit to reach this haste level isn't really worth it.

The last I read at WHU, mastery was Survival's weakest secondary stat regardless of where you were in relation to the plateaus. Is that still the case?

For the sake of being informative, I'm at 1981 static haste (only 167 of which comes from reforging) with The Hungerer (N). And 3/3 Pathing, of course.

[sheffield]

so when reforging for MM plateau 3, no glyph w/ 3/3 pathing would be

961!hit>crit>1235haste>mastery

??

[Lucetia]

The last I read at WHU, mastery was Survival's weakest secondary stat regardless of where you were in relation to the plateaus. Is that still the case?

For the sake of being informative, I'm at 1981 static haste (only 167 of which comes from reforging) with The Hungerer (N). And 3/3 Pathing, of course.

It is the weakest stat, but at the same time you compare the two. Do you go above the 758 haste to get more autoshots as your CS isn't going to be sped up to make a difference. At that point it becomes which one is worth more Auto Shots or doing more damage per attack. Though if you have a trinket proc/troll racial/something similiar then it wouldn't be a bad idea to go for 2264 - "proc" = base haste to use.

Right now my hunter doesn't have enough gear to where he can have the excess haste vs mastery, though I have thought about setting up my haste to where I can get 4 CS in during Bloodlust then go rest mastery. As right now you can hit 4 CS during Rapid Fire.