XXL Guide to Feral PvP: Cataclysm Edition

[Duilliath]

Possibly, I do enjoy the feeling of panic most mages get when they blink away only to find they're rooted. It's nice because, mostly when they do that is after you got novaed into place preventing you from charging. They're not used to having that applied to them instead and I find that's nearly as important: to surprise the other party.

[Wolfdragon]

Surprising the other party would be popping treeform after berserk, roots are more of a nuicence than a big surprise, but depends on the mage I guess

[Duilliath]

Wait, you mean you're not playing a 31/31/31 spec like all ferals?

And, tbh, it's not something I'll do often, (most times another spell is more effective), but it's still fun. Nearly as much as fun as reflecting a death coil back to a Warlock.

[Shmanky]

Why do you say Hunters are just "laughable" 1v1 with a feral? Dueling a good hunter 1v1 is a very, very hard fight. It actually rivals fighting a frost mage.

[Obblivion]

Are you remembering to charge, skull bash, stun and root to keep the gap closed?

[Balduvian]

Why do you say Hunters are just "laughable" 1v1 with a feral? Dueling a good hunter 1v1 is a very, very hard fight. It actually rivals fighting a frost mage.

Mostly because it's outdated. They're certainly not "laughable" anymore idd, but I'd say they should be won at least 7/10 times. Bleed them up asap, use Bear Form, Bear Charge, Bash and Skullbash as often as you can. After your bleeds run out, the Hunter should be on or around 50% already. Berserk in Bear Form is really good vs. Hunters as well. Charge/Skullbash + Mangle (Bear) spam can easily eat the last 50% while not taking too much damage.

[axxey]

An equally skilled hunter will not lose to a feral druid, at all.

[Balduvian]

An equally skilled hunter will not lose to a feral druid, at all.

Thanks for your great contribution again, as always.

In arena, Hunter comps will be insanely hard for any Feral comp to beat. That's true for sure. However, in 1v1 they're really not THAT much of a problem. Sure, they're one of the hardest classes in 1v1 for you to beat, but that's more because Feral is basically the best class for 1v1 after Frost Mages. You should be able to beat all other classes about 8 or 9/10 times, Hunters a bit less, Frost Mages a whole lot less.

[Voodoo Boyz]

Question,

I'm considering trying out my 85 Druid in PVP as Feral and I'm still fairly green to PVP. This guide is very helpful, but the one thing I'd like to know is what abilities are used as Feral to generate combo points? To a lesser extent, what finishers should be used, aside from Rip?

What to do when Stealthed to open is not so much of a problem as it is on what to do when in the thick of fighting. I know enough to realize that I need Mangle, Rake, and Rip going on the target ideally, and Shred is great if I'm behind the target, but I've no clue what else to use if I can't get behind my opponent.

Thanks!

[Wolfdragon]

Basically finishers are all very situational, is rip up, will you be on your target if it is ? do you have tigers fury or any agility procs up to reapply rip shall you fear peels? it's somewhat finnese, depends on the situation aswell. Assume 3v3, you're playing against a cc heavy setup let's say MLS, as FMP, you're eating fears novas and rings due to no dispells cuz UA, they aren't focusing you, you're trying to get on the mage, the only finishers you would be using in this situation are rip and savage roar shall the mage call for cyclones if you need instants.
Assume a different situation, Junglecleave(feral hunter healer(assume paladin) vs. libertycleave(dk mage priest) assuming you rush the mage for a quick block, you open up get rip with tigers fury up, waste 1 rootbreak- assuming hunter is good he gets a trap in the meanwhile, you get a healer trinket and you cyclone mage blocks- this happened in the time span of 16-ish seconds, tigers fury is up in 14, you swap on the dk get debuffs rolling, and prepare for berserk, make sure you don't trinket anything before tigers fury and berserk are running, you have the dk on a continious back and forth for a while and you notice tigers fury is coming up, assuming novaed you use second rootbreak, use both tigers fury AND berserk, apply bleeds because your pvp trinket is up, then proceed to shred and ferocious bite untill dead, a cyclone on the healer when he is out of cc is also a plus- This is some situations from which you can get what it's about-
Basically you're reapplying rip against most comps preety retroactively, because you're getting peeled, however that same second you're confident you're gonna get your uptime high, you're only applying it once, and wasting everything else on ferocious bite, savage roar only when peeled and in need of an instant.

[Balduvian]

what abilities are used as Feral to generate combo points?

1. Shred whenever you can.
2. Mangle to keep the 1-minute debuff up and/or when you can't shred.
3. Rake, only to keep up the bleed.

To a lesser extent, what finishers should be used, aside from Rip?

Maim, Ferocious Bite and even SR to a lesser extent are all used, and all (like Wolfdragon already stated) situational. Maim is a stun, so you basically use it whenever you want to make sure someone doesn't run or cast, it's really that simple. Ferocious Bite is usually only used when a target is on low HP, as a sort of execute finishing move. SR is really rarely applied. You might take it in to consideration when one of the 3 follow situations occur:

- When you are in a desperate need of a PS proc
- When you have enough time/CP to add this as an extra bonus when you're setting up burst with Berserk/TF/Trinket/whatever. (Usually 1-2 CP should be enough)
- When you are switching from 1 target with 1-4 CP (at 5 you should still consider Maim or Rip over SR) to another target.

but I've no clue what else to use if I can't get behind my opponent.

Usually, not being able to get behind your opponent means you're having positioning-issues, so work on that! It's pretty much always doable except when he/she is standing with his ass in a wall (even then it's possible to Shred from the side, except at some spots on several arena maps).

In case he's standing with his ass in the wall, you should consider switching to another target. The loss of not using Shred AT ALL but Mangle instead is pretty huge in the end, and should not be considered a viable option.

[axxey]

Thanks for your great contribution again, as always.

In arena, Hunter comps will be insanely hard for any Feral comp to beat. That's true for sure. However, in 1v1 they're really not THAT much of a problem. Sure, they're one of the hardest classes in 1v1 for you to beat, but that's more because Feral is basically the best class for 1v1 after Frost Mages. You should be able to beat all other classes about 8 or 9/10 times, Hunters a bit less, Frost Mages a whole lot less.

Please give me a blow by blow of what happens with a good hunter Vs you. How do you close and stay closed with a hunter using your 25yard feral charge and 13 yard skull bash? Masters call, trap, disengage, pet net, scatter and scare beast should leave you not winning vs a hunter of equal skill.

[Wolfdragon]

It really depends on where you start and your opening pressure, if you don't start in trap(as in he doesn't play it totally gay) he is going to monkeystun your opener, granted this should take more skill than you might think is worth investing, but focuskicking the monkey stops the stun making your oppening pressure enough to have him on the back foot till the end, don't trinket nothin but trap and don't use distance closers badly, all I really got. (I never focused really hard on duels, when I really wanted to prove I knew what I was doing with dueling it just happaned naturally, no fancy tactics or dueling tricks)

[Balduvian]

Please give me a blow by blow of what happens with a good hunter Vs you. How do you close and stay closed with a hunter using your 25yard feral charge and 13 yard skull bash? Masters call, trap, disengage, pet net, scatter and scare beast should leave you not winning vs a hunter of equal skill.

Dash, Stampeding Roar, passive 45% speed in Cat, Skull Bash on a 10 sec CD, Feral Charge Bear (15) or Cat (30) sec CD, Bash, Maim, Instant Roots/Cyclones, a basically "passive" 50% slow.

But honestly, 10 sec CD on Skullbash and 15 sec CD on Feral Charge Bear alone means you can close those gaps OFTEN. Really often.

Not to mention, Scare Beast in 1v1? Shouldn't happen. Not ever.

[axxey]

So as expected you're fighting bad huntards... of course you're going to win.

[Duilliath]

Can't speak for Balduvian, but I for one really appreciate your carefully constructed posts and well reasoned out responses. You do a wonderful job providing the community with insight with the extensive reasons you are providing us with and the detailed answers really shed a new light on this discussion.

[axxey]

I kind of stated them and he says nothing of how he deals with them.

Feral charge is 25 yard vs hunter 40yard abilities that also daze, skull bash is only 13 yards.

Not to mention, Scare Beast in 1v1? Shouldn't happen. Not ever.

If i had a trinket for every trap as well as a trinket for every scatter shot I'd never get scare beast on me either.

If hunter is breaking their own CC early vs a feral before making use of their range allowing you to reclose quickly then they're bad pvp hunters(or not pvp spec, many use PvE).
Back when berserk made you fear immune hunters weren't difficult.

[Duilliath]

You can shift whilst stunned or disoriented. There is no reason to get feared.

[Balduvian]

If i had a trinket for every trap as well as a trinket for every scatter shot I'd never get scare beast on me either.

If hunter is breaking their own CC early vs a feral before making use of their range allowing you to reclose quickly then they're bad pvp hunters(or not pvp spec, many use PvE).
Back when berserk made you fear immune hunters weren't difficult.

Like Duilliath said, you can still shift out of any form while stunned/disoriented, so also while trapped and/or scattered...

Are you sure I'm fighting terrible Hunters? Or maybe YOU are doing something wrong instead? This sure looks like it.

EDIT: if it wasn't difficult just because of the Fear immunity, then it's exactly the same right now. In both cases, you never get feared by a Hunter in 1v1.

Can't speak for Balduvian

Oh yes you can.

[Wolfdragon]

Ok CK's dueling attempt vs. Rudd a hunter that loses about 10 duels/year (he don't duel much, he barely ever loses though, multi rank 1 (I think 3 times))
I opened on him with my focus on his monkey the first thing I did after pounce was focus kick the monkey stun, Rudd thus trinketed the pounce and decided to drop a freezing(8sec cc one I don't know if it's freezing or frost, sue me) trap, knowing he'd have monkey stun and scatter shall i trinket I however decided to sit it, knowing I'd be able to get back on him eventually and get blooms running, during the trap he didn't attempt to scare beast me, however in the scatter he started casting it to get me into caster form for his burst, (I can't SI in caster form)
He proceeded to cast a fully cooldowned aimed shot-I had barkskin up before it landed, and as soon as it did I tried to mitigate the incoming damage from chimera shot by bearform+SI(I call it shieldwall) to no avail,I was sub 50% health(In bearform with natural reaction AND shieldwall) I popped enrage and charged him thus he freedomed himself and disengaged leaving me in a snake trap I used Stampeding Roar and as soon as I was in range(you require good MS for this if he is jumping) I used Skullbash to close distance and bashed instantly after in the bash I ate a monkey stun as my bash lasted 1 second longer I was able to get a rake up on him luckily it crit so I was at 2cp at this point it would be optimal to cyclone him to get blooms and rejuv going, so I attempted to get a PS procc with 2 cp with SR(savage roar) surprisingly I did,
I thus cycloned him got blooms going got rejuv, and hugged the clone in catform, as soon as he got out of it he scattered me and dropped a trap he ran quite a considerable distance so I was worried, I trinketed the trap however the same second it got on me as I knew his monkey stun was on cooldown-
He detteranced my charge dismissed pet summoned a new monkey and stunned me there where I stood at this point preety frustrated I was getting desperate having had my blooms dispelled by tranquilize in the stun, and him jumping around at 90+% with me dropping slowly below 40%(he had bad crit rng) I was at this point preety desperate, thus the next chance I got I used my ravagge mangled him and maimed him with 3cp just to get some uptime, I used TF and berserk at this point getting off 2 shreds and a rip surprisingly enough what I had done in those few globals put him at 50%, he dropped a snake trap which I sprinted out of obviously eating concussive shot/barrage from glyphed chimera shot, so I lost a couple globals shifting, but in the next 4 sec I connected I mangled his face twice, tried to get to his back to shred, soon realising I was too optimistic thus putting a rake up and savage roaring for the instant healing touch(I was dangerously low- at 20% killshots would've killed me)-
At this point we're both at about 30%, both with no trinkets and no major defencive cooldowns, I thus know he is waiting for my bear charge with his freedom and disengage, I shifted bear and skullbashed him instead, to my content he disengaged it, so I charged him right after only to get a scatter in the charge, I lost the duel quickly after that, I stood no chance- But this has yielded success over many hunters even some gladiators, I guess Rudd is just out of my league at the moment.

---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 02:00 AM ----------

Consider the above post an in-depth feral v hunter duel have fun. (I call myself CK cuz it currently abbreviates my name) I'm also a Gladiator Feral druid, so I think you should be content.