Better Loot Distribution.

[Kouki]

Too often this forum and other sites are ablaze with anger and frustration over loot.

In Raidfinder this week a tank rolled need on pants but already had them.
He and his friends started to act high mighty and rude to anyone who asked why.

He said its his right to roll for his offspec, and blizz says its his right because he CAN hit the button need.

Why is it that in wow and the other mmo's that clone from it
We give 4 items of loot out in a group of 25?

Is it that we need a reason to return? To that id say well if the dungeon is truly fun people will return.

Is it that we need that random roll to get some kind of high when we complete a 2 or 4 set?


What i propose is this:

Total overhaul of the loot system as a whole:

Every boss has a loot table still a list of things he drops.
But now its all boe, And each raider gets 1 random item from him.

You wont win all your loot for your class and spec in one week, so to the people who want us to take longer for some reason its still a good system.

You promote trading items and forming a community on your server, you will thank and remember the guy who sold you your last item for your set, in exchange for one of his that you had.

You might roll an alt and put these items on but most people will take advantage of selling it on an AH since its boe, so its not a big issue. And its your alt if you want to gear it why not?

---------- Post added 2012-04-02 at 12:30 AM ----------

In response to somone on the official forum.
Who suggested that ppl would gear 5x faster and sell all the items for pennies on the AH

is there a problem with people sharing loot with other people?

As i said only a small number will sell it.

And a small number will use it on alts.

What if instead we had it that you can share loot inside the dungeon only then when its over its bound to you.

We do allow trading for an hour at the moment but this is under a system that gives out 4 items.

Say 25 people get 1 item each thats 25 items now the paladin gets some healer shield he could use but is not holy so he gives it to the shaman who got a lock item, the lock gets the item he needs the shaman gets an item he needs and the paly gets something.

They also make a sort of friendship.

EDIT

Just Wanted to Add this.

Has no one considered that the Loot system is flawed when ppl offer loot runs for real money and tons of gold?

[jbombard]

You do realize they are changing the loot system in MoP LFR so that everyone gets loot individually and you don't roll against each other any more?

It will be non-tradeable and spec-specific. It may not be any faster, but hopefully it will help all the frustration and anger from people needing on stuff they don't need. Blizzard has done a lousy job of creating an environment that encourages good social behavior. It seems like they go out of their way to put people at each others throats, and hopefully this change will start to fix that. You would think for games that are supposed to be group oriented more thought would be put into making the social aspects of the game more fun by encouraging good behavior, and removing reasons for people to argue needlessly.

[Kouki]

You do realize they are changing the loot system in MoP LFR so that everyone gets loot individually and you don't roll against each other any more?

It will be non-tradeable and spec-specific. It may not be any faster, but hopefully it will help all the frustration and anger from people needing on stuff they don't need. Blizzard has done a lousy job of creating an environment that encourages good social behavior. It seems like they go out of their way to put people at each others throats, and hopefully this change will start to fix that. You would think for games that are supposed to be group oriented more thought would be put into making the social aspects of the game more fun by encouraging good behavior, and removing reasons for people to argue needlessly.

Its almost too little too late, i hate how blizz always says look to the next expansion we can fix things then.

[jbombard]

I agree. And people always say it isn't Blizzard's fault, blame the players. Which is total crap, Blizzard designs the systems and those systems can encourage or discourage the kind of behavior they want. When they design loot systems, mechanics, etc... that put the players against each other it hurts the game. I would love to see the new loots system hot-fixed in, but I know it isn't going to happen.

[Kouki]

I agree. And people always say it isn't Blizzard's fault, blame the players. Which is total crap, Blizzard designs the systems and those systems can encourage or discourage the kind of behavior they want. When they design loot systems, mechanics, etc... that put the players against each other it hurts the game. I would love to see the new loots system hot-fixed in, but I know it isn't going to happen.

Thank you, see this is reason why im so excited for the games coming out this year.

Guildwars2 takes out any way to grief other players the hopeful result is people wont act like dbags.

Tera has a political system, and this results in players becoming a positive community.

Both games stand to eliminate the dbaggery in mmos today.

[koltara]

You are childish that you expect every new thing to run perfect from the beginning. LFR was first implemented in DS with some basic rules.
You saw changes when they blocked classes from rolling to everything. The system is improving and Cata is near to over now.

Stop QQ about things that will get better, they heard your wish for a change, but they focus on the new stuff. So just wait.

And yes, rolling for offspec is allowed and you and your friends can do that too.

[jbombard]

Thank you, see this is reason why im so excited for the games coming out this year.

Guildwars2 takes out any way to grief other players the hopeful result is people wont act like dbags.

Tera has a political system, and this results in players becoming a positive community.

Both games stand to eliminate the dbaggery in mmos today.

While I am also very excited about GW2, the way combat works means players will have A LOT more individual responsibility in dungeons... this will either be awesome or a nightmare depending on the other players you are with.

[aztr0]

Your proposition don't mean jack shit since the loot system is already being tweaked in MoP. Let it go.

Please post constructively

[ZehGeek]

I agree. And people always say it isn't Blizzard's fault, blame the players. Which is total crap, Blizzard designs the systems and those systems can encourage or discourage the kind of behavior they want. When they design loot systems, mechanics, etc... that put the players against each other it hurts the game. I would love to see the new loots system hot-fixed in, but I know it isn't going to happen.

Let me pose a question, if someone takes a hammer, and hurts someone very badly with it, do you blame the hammer manufacturer or the person who beats said person's legs in? Obviously, you blame the guy who beats a guy's legs in, since the Hammer Manufacturer means for people to drive nails in, or get dents out, not cause harm to a person. Name of the game is all about how you use a tool, wether for 'good' like hammering nails in, or bad like causing harm.

Blizzard gave a system with basic rules because I'm guessing it had trust in it's playerbase to not be what it is..but such as life so now we get a personalized loot table, to solve said issue.

[Ryve]

It sounds to me like you want nothing more than instant gratification. If you can gear your raid up in 2 or 3 weeks, what is the point of coming back for most? Your entire raid now greatly outgear all of the encounters so there is little challenge. Not to mention the fact that during progression your entire raid will be getting much stronger much faster.

A lot of us use raiding as something to do with our time. Giving us incentive like mounts, titles and the chance to better our gear is part of the appeal. If you want instant gratification, obviously MMOs are not for you.

[jbombard]

Let me pose a question, if someone takes a hammer, and hurts someone very badly with it, do you blame the hammer manufacturer or the person who beats said person's legs in? Obviously, you blame the guy who beats a guy's legs in, since the Hammer Manufacturer means for people to drive nails in, or get dents out, not cause harm to a person. Name of the game is all about how you use a tool, wether for 'good' like hammering nails in, or bad like causing harm.

Blizzard gave a system with basic rules because I'm guessing it had trust in it's playerbase to not be what it is..but such as life so now we get a personalized loot table, to solve said issue.

Ahh no. Change your example to hammer manufacturer gives a guy a hammer starves him for 3 days, put's him a hot room playing trance music for an additional day then lets him loose on a guy with a turkey sandwich. Blizzard has complete and total control over the environment. They can make whatever rules they please. They choose to make rules that are gray and prone to misinterpretation and argument, when they*could have made rules that are black and white and leave no room for argument. When there are 5 guys that play together every day you can probably trust them to work it out, when there are 10 million people thrown together at random with no accountability you cannot trust them to play nice, you design an environment that eliminates as much room for confrontation as possible and do everything in your power to encourage team work and cooperation. Blizzard has failed and continues to fail in designing environments that encourage a good community.

[Dhurn]

Its almost too little too late, i hate how blizz always says look to the next expansion we can fix things then.

One patch cycle. They're fixing an issue with a completely new feature in one patch cycle and it's "too little too late". I don't even know what to say anymore...

[jbombard]

One patch cycle. They're fixing an issue with a completely new feature in one patch cycle and it's "too little too late". I don't even know what to say anymore...

It's a been a problem since LFD was released, it's just gotten big enough for Blizz to finally fix it. But honestly I'm just happy to see them fix it, I'll take it when I can get it.

[Kouki]

Your proposition don't mean jack shit since the loot system is already being tweaked in MoP. Let it go.

MoP only adjusts it for Raidfinder, there is still the problem in other raid modes.

You can go on and on about join a different guild , but the problem is in guilds the loot drama, especially in legendary chains.

When 25 ppl fight a boss and only 4 ppl get loot asuming your not disenchanting the same bow over and over, then some ppl wont ever get loot at all.
There have been ppl in guilds on my server who get 1 or 2 items per expansion, they pretend to not mind.

There are guilds who break up over loot, and fights over loot every raid on some realms/guilds.

What id like and what ive tried to outline is fair loot distribution, but you guys have your heads so far up your ass you cant see it.
You just want to win and have others lose to compensate for something.

[Illisar]

MoP only adjusts it for Raidfinder, there is still the problem in other raid modes.

You can go on and on about join a different guild , but the problem is in guilds the loot drama, especially in legendary chains.

When 25 ppl fight a boss and only 4 ppl get loot asuming your not disenchanting the same bow over and over, then some ppl wont ever get loot at all.
There have been ppl in guilds on my server who get 1 or 2 items per expansion, they pretend to not mind.

There are guilds who break up over loot, and fights over loot every raid on some realms/guilds.

What id like and what ive tried to outline is fair loot distribution, but you guys have your heads so far up your ass you cant see it.
You just want to win and have others lose to compensate for something.

As someone who has gone an entire expansion recieving one or two minor read MINOR upgrades, I honestly didn't mind. I raid to pass time, spend time with my friends and have fun. Loot is just icing. Mounts, icing, titles, icing.

Your initial idea is interesting, and could lead to both good and bad, i give you props for atleast thinking outside the box, however, I see a huge flaw with this design. Server first guilds typically have one to two possibly three raid teams going at a time for 10m groups, thats 30 people all getting boe's. And if at the end of the day 10 of those boe's don't get used, you will see massive server-wide AH inflation.

A prime example of this was in FL, my server had over 100 boe's from FL on the AH first week, spire's of scarlet pain going for 150k, molten screams for 75k, volcanospikes 200k, You're method would destroy economies quickly, and efficiently, while yes it MIGHT eliminate player QQ about gear and gear drama it most certainly wont help draw a community or realm together.

Another big issue is the individual players. If the loot received isn't for their specific spec/class, Most are probably going to go straight to the AH with it. Because who cares? Get Gkicked, go to another guild.

The biggest issue I see however is with the guilds running loot council, or dkp systems in which typically non BiS Boe's go to Gbank, if that rule stays, you will see Gbanks flooded with extra crap that no-one needs and a few select gm's getting ridiculously rich from their raid teams.

[yjmark]

What i propose is this:

Total overhaul of the loot system as a whole:

Every boss has a loot table still a list of things he drops.
But now its all boe, And each raider gets 1 random item from him.

You wont win all your loot for your class and spec in one week, so to the people who want us to take longer for some reason its still a good system.

You promote trading items and forming a community on your server, you will thank and remember the guy who sold you your last item for your set, in exchange for one of his that you had.

You might roll an alt and put these items on but most people will take advantage of selling it on an AH since its boe, so its not a big issue. And its your alt if you want to gear it why not?

I like your thinking, but I disagree with the BoE part. imho - a majority of anyone's raiding gear should come from actually raiding. Not BoEs. However, keeping the current system fucntion where you can trade with anyone within the raid could help resolve a lot of issues. Personally, I think the idea is pretty solid.

I know that Blizz is changing the loot system for MoP, but I disagree about the "can't trade item within raid" and "only getting stuff for your spec". Maybe a combination of the OPs proposed system and Blizzard's proposed system would work well?

[Illisar]

I like your thinking, but I disagree with the BoE part. imho - a majority of anyone's raiding gear should come from actually raiding. Not BoEs. However, keeping the current system fucntion where you can trade with anyone within the raid could help resolve a lot of issues. Personally, I think the idea is pretty solid.

I know that Blizz is changing the loot system for MoP, but I disagree about the "can't trade item within raid" and "only getting stuff for your spec". Maybe a combination of the OPs proposed system and Blizzard's proposed system would work well?

Now theres an Idea, a combination of the two systems could yeild good results, and further the community as a whole, honestly my biggest issue was the boe portion, make it a bop item that can be traded in a set time frame and you've got a better system. If someone gets an item not for them, no risk of it going to AH or Gbank as it's bop, they are going to want to trade it to someone else who may have gotten an item that the other needs. Sure you will have the occasional ass who just DE's everything he doesn't need, or vendors it rather than sharing with others, but you'll get that with any system.

[loki504]

I agree. And people always say it isn't Blizzard's fault, blame the players. Which is total crap, Blizzard designs the systems and those systems can encourage or discourage the kind of behavior they want. When they design loot systems, mechanics, etc... that put the players against each other it hurts the game. I would love to see the new loots system hot-fixed in, but I know it isn't going to happen.

blizzard didnt really designed a system for LFR. they just used the LFD system.
and would you be happy if blizzard put on a awkward system right away?

it would feel awkward if they put in this sytem right away.
and they would say he just in cause.
and they changed it in MoP/other expension because 1. it take alot of time to make/create/test it.
and 2. they might be some coding needed that is not ready for live WoW.

pls stop talking like you know everyting about WoW better then blizz does.

yes it takes blizzard more then to add extra content then rift/swotor. but that is because they use a code that is like 7 years younger then WoW code.

[Dhurn]

[B]
Why is it that in wow and the other mmo's that clone from it
We give 4 items of loot out in a group of 25?

Is it that we need a reason to return? To that id say well if the dungeon is truly fun people will return.

Yea sure in an ideal world that would be why everyone raids but look at it objectively. How many people are raiding Firelands these days? Very few, and mostly for the Legendary staff. How many are raiding BWD/TotFW/BoT? Even less.

Why? Because the loot is not relevant when 378/384s are easily acquired in 5 mans/LFR

You want to hand out 25 pieces per boss, or 175-200 pieces per raid in something like FL/DS, let them be BoE, and you don't realize how it could have any negative effect? The fact is many people raid for loot, plain and simple. If you give someone everything they want in their first 2-4 weeks of raiding, the motivation to return the following weeks is significantly less. Not to mention it makes the content trivial because you're completely outgearing it within a month of it's release. It's not good for the game, there has to be things for people to strive for to keep them interested.

It's just not true that people who raid consistently will often be so unlucky they never get a piece for an entire expansion. 4 per boss is still 28 per lockout, most raiding guilds clear content for 15-20 weeks or more. You can't tell me that somehow someone would show up for all those 15-20 weeks and manage to get passed over on all ~480 pieces that drop, especially with 1/3 chance of their tokens dropping and many pieces of loot being relevant for multiple classes these days. Maybe one or two isolated incidents, but most people I know get 20-30 pieces per tier when you include offset loot.

[Deleted]

It's not neccessarily a bad idea, but I see a few issues.

1. The economy would just break when it comes to items. LFR (which I'm assuming is what you're talking about here) items would flood the AH for dimes and pennies, while world BoEs and craftables would be riddiciously expensive.

2. In enough given time, every alt would be able to gear completely in LFR ilevel for about a days worth of daily questing gold. This is not a good thing, I believe that you HAVE to earn your gear, regardless of how easy or hard it is.

You mention how this could potentially promote friendship and trading. I'm saying it would probably just flood the market, most likely trade chat, people setting up their own personalized "vendors" everywhere. It wouldn't really promote friendship, it would promote entrepreneurship.

Could work, but I don't like it.