Which takes more skill: Rank 1 or World First?

[Warwithin]

Question in title. This is pretty much what the "PvE vs. PvP" debate boils down to. PvE'ers argue that a world first (We're talking h.Rag/h.DW, not "omg h.Morchok world first!!" is the pinnacle of the WoW-experience while PvP'ers spit in their faces and laugh - trying to explain how Rank 1 is the toughest thing to achieve in World of Warcraft.

So it all boils down to one poll (which is incoming): Which takes more skill: Rank 1 or World First?

I'm putting my money on Rank 1. With the release of the Dungeon Manual (Or whatever the name is), you know exactly what your opponent (The heroic end-boss) will do, when it will happen, and how often said mechanics will occur. From there, it's all a matter of grinding it out, staying awake, and avoiding fatigue.

In contrast, attaining (and maintaining, mind you) Rank 1 is an immensely difficult task. There are hundreds of thousands of PvPers, a wide variety of comps you can potentially face, and no room for error.

Though there is room for debate. If you wipe on a boss, you lose time. If you lose in arena, you lose rating - both of which are pivotal to getting a World First and achieving Rank 1.

So place your bets and show your hands, ladies n' gents. Let's hear some opinions.

-=Edit=-

For those of you who may not have been keeping an eye to the poll....



While I assumed it would be a divisive topic, I don't think any of us were expecting this. A tie with over 600 votes in a poll is a pretty good indicator that there's a bit of a divide in the community..

[Maelle]

This discussion will totally not end well...

I'll sit on the fence, they both require time and skill, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

[Giantfoamhat]

Rank 1 has been exploited with win trading and selective queuing and world firsts have been exploited by faction xfers and lock out bugs. At that level it's all about how well you can cheat and how much time you have.

[PvPisthelifeforme]

Rank 1, because it is something you have to maintain, and is skill based on that is constantly changing. World first is a good feat, but it is just a matter of having better gear at some point or another.

[Jeffyjimbob]

For me personally, anything PvP is harder than PvE.

Simply put: CPUs are more forgiving than other humans. But that's just my opinion.

[Chort]

Even though world first required a lot of skills - still it depends more on time you spend : Paragon, Exodus, Kinraiders and others were raiding 15 hours each day before heroic kill. Check your top raiding guilds - they mostly raid 3 - 5 times a week on your server.

PvP on another hand - still requires you a lot of time spend - but at the end most of the time it is you and 2 - 4 friends agains group of other players. And matches last maximum an hour now.

So i think Rank 1 > World First.

[bluechiefs]

The two aren't really something that is comparable. Both are completely different. rank 1 isn't something all classes can typically do. And in PvE, those top end world first competitors have been doing said raids on the PTR as long as possible so they already have a general idea of how it should work, or at least getting up to that point. on a "skill" basis it's like comparing peanut butter to running shoes on the basis of purple.

People are talking about time it takes, how long, maintaining.. none of which is about skill. PvPers will fight to the death that PvP takes much more skill and because they have to keep working at it.. PvE will say you only get that one shot at it and any delay can mean you lose to someone else.. However neither are comparing skill because the "skills" required are completely different. putting the right pressure on at the perfect moments, ccing, kiting, forcing moves to be made., and keeping at it throughout the season. vs top end dmg, perfect CD usage, not standing in "the fire", and spending 50+ hrs a week doing this over and over for that one moment when it goes live.

Simply arguing over which takes more generic skill isn't really saying much about the two. It only allows for " well I pvp an PvE is easy mode for scrubs!" "lawl, pvp is for OP classes at the time!" flame wars.

[Treeskee]

Both have been earned through cheating or exploiting, but rank one is technically harder. Although I would have said world firsts if this thread popped up in wrath when everyone was doing TSG.

[ImpTaimer]

God damnit, I knew I should've read further, I was assuming this was a PvE discussion. Changing my vote to World First.

You might as well change it to Arena or Raiding.

World First is much harder than Rank 1 simply because anyone can be Rank 1 after someone becomes Rank 1. It just becomes an unscrupulous act to maintain Rank 1.

World First can only happen once per act. Whether or not it was done scrupulously makes no difference.

So to say, if you were World First x Rank, then that's more difficult than saying you're x Rank because anyone can get x Rank.

*edit* To clarify my vote change, if this were a PvE discussion, it's much harder to maintain Rank 1 because in order to be Rank 1 you have to gain World Firsts.

[Curanhadin]

I think both take a lot of skill but to a large degree luck is invovled in both.

[Deleted]

With the release of the Dungeon Manual (Or whatever the name is), you know exactly what your opponent (The heroic end-boss) will do, when it will happen, and how often said mechanics will occur. From there, it's all a matter of grinding it out, staying awake, and avoiding fatigue.

This is not entirely true, you know what skills the boss will use, but not how and when and how to counter it. It's the same as that you KNOW a holy paladin will bubble in the match sometime, but you don't know when.
Although I agree rank one is probably harder than world first, but being top being top 0,5% is in pve is probably harder than getting top 0,5% in pvp. It all depends what you compare, don't really think there is a definite answer on wether pvp or pve requires more skill.

[Solmyr13]

Yeah you can't compare them tbh. A world first just means dedicating hours and hours and hours, having tons of alts fully raid geared and ready to go on standby and the willingness to wipe endlessly to figure out every little niche. That takes INSANE amounts of dedication and truly shows who the best PvE'ers are. However this does have people who cheat the system too (looking at the latest LFR fiasco and people basically cheating to get max 4 piece tier pieces).

Rank 1 means endless amounts of PvP but can also be cheated to get through win trading. A successful comp will roflstomp most comps regardless of skill (who remember RMP for as long as it reigned). The fact that humans essentially get 2 DPS trinkets means anyone playing a serious comp will want to run humans in their side to get that extra DPS advantage.

Both can be exploited, both can be obtained through insane amounts of effort and each deserve their own achievement. Which they both have. No point in trying to figure out which is the "best" of the two, they're both equally as outstanding.

[Niyari]

Easy. In terms of individual skill, getting rank 1 requires more individual skill. World first just means you raid with 24 other people that can follow instructions correctly AND have lots of free time.

[stopbeingdumb]

i can't read sorry, i say rank 1.

[notorious98]

The two aren't really something that is comparable. Both are completely different. rank 1 isn't something all classes can typically do. And in PvE, those top end world first competitors have been doing said raids on the PTR as long as possible so they already have a general idea of how it should work, or at least getting up to that point. on a "skill" basis it's like comparing peanut butter to running shoes on the basis of purple.

Your initial argument against PvP also applies to PvE. That's why you see specific class stacking on fights. Anyone see ret pallies on any of the World first heroics when Cata first came out? Probably not because their dps was shit.

[guanqi]

both takes immense amount of skill but they are different kind of skills.

Rank 1 is about knowing every class inside out and have the synergy with two team mates all figured out and then practice, practice, practice till you think you have all the opponent comps down then practice some more

World first is about knowing your class inside out, be able to squeeze out the maximum output (DPS) mostly, the coordination between 9 to 24 other people and the dedication to sit though 300+ wipes.

So, Rank 1 is skill learned through experience complimented by theory-crafting with dedication through out; while world first is skill through theory-crafting complimented by experience with a crap load of dedication in the first 2 weeks of content push

[notbob]

rank 1 requires more skill. no matter how broken your class is, at the very least you have to be better than almost everyone at your class and at arena in general.
it requires skill and thats all.

World first on the other hand requires time, effort, dedication, ect. but the closest thing to skill required is a matter of reaction time to fairly predictable events.

Not that one or the other is harder or easier, but rank 1 definitely requires more skill.

[Deleted]

Rank 1, because it is something you have to maintain, and is skill based on that is constantly changing. World first is a good feat, but it is just a matter of having better gear at some point or another.

Worst analysis I've ever seen.

[zpiff]

I would say world first, Paragon dit rag hc. in t11 hc gear, and trust me. that fight was a nightmare even in t12 hc gear.. imo thats skill. and hard work.
But that said, rank 1. is pure skill. so not a easy call
Bouth Amazing achievs..

[notorious98]

This is not entirely true, you know what skills the boss will use, but not how and when and how to counter it. It's the same as that you KNOW a holy paladin will bubble in the match sometime, but you don't know when.
Although I agree rank one is probably harder than world first, but being top being top 0,5% is in pve is probably harder than getting top 0,5% in pvp. It all depends what you compare, don't really think there is a definite answer on wether pvp or pve requires more skill.

DBM usually tells you when the boss will do their special attacks. It even has a countdown and makes a shitload of noise. The same cannot be applied to PvP.