[MOP] What do you think about the new and (I hope so.) better Enhancement Shaman?

[Veyne]

They didn't do anything to make the playstyle more interesting, makes me a sad panda.

Bring back WOTLK enhc playstyle plz, or hell, even totem twisting.

I can't understand how anyone could possibly think our playstyle is much different from WotLK anyway. We use Unleash Elements for Flame Shock, and our Lava Lash is attached to Searing Flames, but ultimately, you'll almost always have 5x SF by the time LL is off cooldown anyway.

I think the Enhancement rotation is the best it's ever been.

Am I also the only one that likes Enhancement AoE? I've found it fun ever since they made Lava Lash spread Flame Shock.

[Omanley]

Flametongue was nerfed by 20%+

I am kinda confused right now as far as imbue damage goes.
On live it seems like WF deals more damage than FT does, like it is supposed to be.

-I've then heard though that for some reason FT did to well, surpassing WF. My thought was that it was because of Searing Flames (at least partly).
-Then I hear that WF has been properly above FT
-Then there's the change to FT now. As far as raw numbers go, FT seems to be just like always, but with additional Spellpower scaling. However, you're now saying it is actually a nerf. Was our attack power scaling replaced by spellpower scaling? This would explain a loss in dmg.
-And then there's the nerf to WF extra ap

I dont know what to think anymore about imbue damage, and other changes like the buff to Static Shock make it even more confusing especially when factoring in Unleashes.

I would really appriciate it if someone on beta could do a view dps tests with comparisons of imbue damage, preferably also pvp setups.

[takolin]

The latest simcraft numbers put both imbues at the same damage, each accounting for 5.1% of our damage with an EotE and UF talentsetup. This also puts them below FS and ES if you the add the damage of EotE to the Shocks.

[Deleted]

I am extremely disappointed with Enhancement on the PTR. It is the least enjoyable melee class for me.

The passive damage is just brutal, it is so much that it feels active buttons do nothing. Only Stormstrike got buffed a bit, but lava lash is very poor and shocks are still weak.

I could summarize enhancement with the phrase: "A class that has 10 different ways of dealing 10k damage".

In PVE it will be just fine and do nice DPS of course, with the added benefit that if you fall asleep and the boss doesn't move, you'll still do well.

[Endus]

I am extremely disappointed with Enhancement on the PTR. It is the least enjoyable melee class for me.

The passive damage is just brutal, it is so much that it feels active buttons do nothing. Only Stormstrike got buffed a bit, but lava lash is very poor and shocks are still weak.

I could summarize enhancement with the phrase: "A class that has 10 different ways of dealing 10k damage".

In PVE it will be just fine and do nice DPS of course, with the added benefit that if you fall asleep and the boss doesn't move, you'll still do well.

I ran through a breakdown of active vs passive damage, and more than 75% of Enhancement's damage on the PTR is active, according to sim data at least. I have no idea where you got the idea that it was mostly passive.

[Orrion]

I can't understand how anyone could possibly think our playstyle is much different from WotLK anyway. We use Unleash Elements for Flame Shock, and our Lava Lash is attached to Searing Flames, but ultimately, you'll almost always have 5x SF by the time LL is off cooldown anyway.

I think the Enhancement rotation is the best it's ever been.

Am I also the only one that likes Enhancement AoE? I've found it fun ever since they made Lava Lash spread Flame Shock.

Well, part of the reason I don't like Enhancement's AoE is that it messes with that rotation you think is awesome. When AoE is going to come around, you have to stop Shocking and hold Lava Lash or else start the AoE phase in the dumps (and possibly miss it entirely in some cases). I can barely touch Lava Lash on Heroic Madness during the last platform anymore because I've got to hold it for the blood phases. The other big factor is, as usual, ramp-up time. If AoE phases last 20+ seconds in Mists, then this AoE system will be fine (until nerfs). If AoE phases are very quick blast-'em-all-dead like the majority of Cataclysm, then this AoE system will blow chunks.

As far as the old AoE systems that Enhancement had, this one is a vast improvement. Night and day.

As far as most other AoE systems, this one still sucks. Night and day.

[Emophia]

I can't understand how anyone could possibly think our playstyle is much different from WotLK anyway. We use Unleash Elements for Flame Shock, and our Lava Lash is attached to Searing Flames, but ultimately, you'll almost always have 5x SF by the time LL is off cooldown anyway.

I think the Enhancement rotation is the best it's ever been.

It felt like we had a lot more buttons to press and LB being most important meant we always had to look out to use MW5 as soon as possible instead of delaying ir for SS or LL made it more exciting.

Now it's like press 5 buttons and use your proc when 1 and 2 are on CD. I want something to make it exciting again, we have the most easygoing simple playstyle of all melee.

[takolin]

It felt like we had a lot more buttons to press and LB being most important meant we always had to look out to use MW5 as soon as possible instead of delaying ir for SS or LL made it more exciting.

Now it's like press 5 buttons and use your proc when 1 and 2 are on CD. I want something to make it exciting again, we have the most easygoing simple playstyle of all melee.

MW5 should be on top again in MoP, even with the latest nerfs.

[Teriz]

It felt like we had a lot more buttons to press and LB being most important meant we always had to look out to use MW5 as soon as possible instead of delaying ir for SS or LL made it more exciting.

Now it's like press 5 buttons and use your proc when 1 and 2 are on CD. I want something to make it exciting again, we have the most easygoing simple playstyle of all melee.

You might want to give Retribution Paladin or Frost DK a try. Their playstyle is similar to Enhance, but they also have quite a few more layers of complexity.

[Deleted]

Well, part of the reason I don't like Enhancement's AoE is that it messes with that rotation you think is awesome. When AoE is going to come around, you have to stop Shocking and hold Lava Lash or else start the AoE phase in the dumps (and possibly miss it entirely in some cases). I can barely touch Lava Lash on Heroic Madness during the last platform anymore because I've got to hold it for the blood phases. The other big factor is, as usual, ramp-up time. If AoE phases last 20+ seconds in Mists, then this AoE system will be fine (until nerfs). If AoE phases are very quick blast-'em-all-dead like the majority of Cataclysm, then this AoE system will blow chunks.

As far as the old AoE systems that Enhancement had, this one is a vast improvement. Night and day.

As far as most other AoE systems, this one still sucks. Night and day.

I could summarize enhancement with the phrase: "A class that has 10 different ways of dealing 10k damage".

In PVE it will be just fine and do nice DPS of course, with the added benefit that if you fall asleep and the boss doesn't move, you'll still do well.

It appears there are alot of folks out there with the same experiences as me.

A pattern, perhaps?

[Delanath]

Everyone knows our ramp up is the "draw back" to our AOE, thats nothing new. So saying it's a pattern is a bit of an understatement. How does our AOE damage stack up against everyone else's after we get our 12 or so stacks up though? No one can touch us.

I can't really speak to the rest. I hope it's not that bad. Theyve been talking about nerfing passive and buffing active; if they haven't done that with all these changes recently then there's some problems with their hands not knowing what their brain is thinking.

---------- Post added 2012-08-20 at 12:53 AM ----------

You might want to give Retribution Paladin or Frost DK a try. Their playstyle is similar to Enhance, but they also have quite a few more layers of complexity.

Complexity? Really? I haven't raided with my ret toon, but I never follow a strict rotation on my frost DK and still pull out numbers in 10 man quite a bit higher than my much more well geared enhance shammy, a toon which I practice my priority list on almost daily. It's just an anecdote, take it as you will, but just because the class has a bonafide resource system that holds back the DPS, doesn't mean it's more complex. Frost DK's are like Edward Cullen character from the twilight series, at first glance they seem complex due to their rough exterior and penchant for melodrama. But then you get to know them and realize it's all just an act, they really are as simple and predictable as they seem. Hit Obliterate whenever it's up, then frost strike, fill in the gaps with outbreak, howling blast or plague strike.

[Deleted]

MW5 should be on top again in MoP, even with the latest nerfs.

This is not true at all. Lightening Bolt is just a bit stronger then Earth Shock and currently it's one of the weakest source of our damage.

[takolin]

This is not true at all. Lightening Bolt is just a bit stronger then Earth Shock and currently it's one of the weakest source of our damage.

Well I'm basing myself on the latest simcraft profile. I would check it on the beta, but I don't have access to it.

And while LB has a lower DPET than SS, LL and FS, it's still being used as soon as MW stacks to 5. It's still the largest part of our damage profile outside lightning shield.

LB: 10.7%
LB EotE: 3.2%
LL: 9.9%
SS: 78%
LS: 11.2%

Now the LS damage is atributed to 3 different sources (SS, LL and Melee hits after you unleash) and thus the total damage of LL and SS is harder to quantify.


Now if you have other data, I'm more than happy to admit my mistake.

[Orrion]

Everyone knows our ramp up is the "draw back" to our AOE, thats nothing new. So saying it's a pattern is a bit of an understatement. How does our AOE damage stack up against everyone else's after we get our 12 or so stacks up though? No one can touch us.

I can't really speak to the rest. I hope it's not that bad. Theyve been talking about nerfing passive and buffing active; if they haven't done that with all these changes recently then there's some problems with their hands not knowing what their brain is thinking

It doesn't really matter how our awesome our AoE is with 12 stacks if we never get to the point where we have 12 stacks going.

Remember the AoE we had in Firelands? It had very, very high potential but that didn't matter because the AoE was over long before we got anywhere near it. This version isn't quite as bad, but there still wasn't a fight in Dragon Soul where our AoE reached full potential. Before the nerfs, Heroic Yor'sajh and Heroic Madness came close, but that's it.


I think they've nerfed the passives. Windfury's bonus AP was cut in half, Flametongue's scaling was nerfed, Flurry nerfed, Stormstrike, Flame Shock and Earth Shock buffed. I still think Lava Lash is low, though.

[Deleted]

It doesn't really matter how our awesome our AoE is with 12 stacks if we never get to the point where we have 12 stacks going.

Remember the AoE we had in Firelands? It had very, very high potential but that didn't matter because the AoE was over long before we got anywhere near it.

Prolly the most entertaining thing i've EVER done on my shaman besides 2 shottin peeps with Unstopabble Force -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIoqF...tailpage#t=75s (edit: thats not me)

I used to pull pyrelords and all the elementals (except the dogs, scorpids and turtles cus they all ran at diferent speeds) and when I managed to dot everything and spam fire nova, id get absurd amounts of dps.

If they retreated to a similar system of FL i wouldn't mind at all. FS something you want to AOE, blast everything around the mob with Fire Nova (just 1 nova hitting like a truck) but with a bigger CD like 10s would kind of make our AOE the fiery version of a super charged Howling Blast and we never would need to go melee to actually AOE.

Seriously in Ragnaros seed's there is no way to survive getting hit by one of those in 25m HC while they are all clustered up.

[Emophia]

You might want to give Retribution Paladin or Frost DK a try. Their playstyle is similar to Enhance, but they also have quite a few more layers of complexity.

I have both, I actually mained ret in WOTLK, and honestly, more than anything current/mop Enhc feels a lot like WOTLK ret. I always reccomend to those people that hate new ret and loved WOTLK ret (though I don't really get why since WoTLK ret was so boring but w/e) to reroll Enhc because gameplay wise it is was so similar.

But yeah I have raided with every melee class this expansion to some degree besides warrior but I just <3 enhances flavor. Nothing is cooler than windfury, fist weapons, and Spirit wolves, nothing.

[Orrion]

Prolly the most entertaining thing i've EVER done on my shaman besides 2 shottin peeps with Unstopabble Force -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIoqF...tailpage#t=75s (edit: thats not me)

I used to pull pyrelords and all the elementals (except the dogs, scorpids and turtles cus they all ran at diferent speeds) and when I managed to dot everything and spam fire nova, id get absurd amounts of dps.

If they retreated to a similar system of FL i wouldn't mind at all. FS something you want to AOE, blast everything around the mob with Fire Nova (just 1 nova hitting like a truck) but with a bigger CD like 10s would kind of make our AOE the fiery version of a super charged Howling Blast and we never would need to go melee to actually AOE.

Seriously in Ragnaros seed's there is no way to survive getting hit by one of those in 25m HC while they are all clustered up.

Yeah, solo farming trash mob damage. That's relevant.

You don't want an AoE with a 10 second CD. It'd be stupid. Way too constrained.

[Deleted]

Well I'm basing myself on the latest simcraft profile. I would check it on the beta, but I don't have access to it.

And while LB has a lower DPET than SS, LL and FS, it's still being used as soon as MW stacks to 5. It's still the largest part of our damage profile outside lightning shield.

LB: 10.7%
LB EotE: 3.2%
LL: 9.9%
SS: 78%
LS: 11.2%

Now the LS damage is atributed to 3 different sources (SS, LL and Melee hits after you unleash) and thus the total damage of LL and SS is harder to quantify.


Now if you have other data, I'm more than happy to admit my mistake.

Here are the resualts:
PVP 483 gear
1 red gem (320 expertise)
1 purple gem (160 expertise, 120 stamina)
1 green gem (160 hit, 160 mastery)
Reforged Crit/Haste to be capped, no enchants. Windfury on the mainhand, flametongue on the offhand.

Lightening Bolt 13,089
Earth Shock 12,816
Elemental Blast 42,036

Lightening Bolt (Elemental Blast's mastery buff) 14,188
Earth Shock (Elemental Blast's mastery buff) 13,892
Elemental Blast (Elemental Blast's mastery buff) 45,566

Lightening Bolt (agility trinket) 17,320
Earth Shock (agility trinket) 16,410
Elemental Blast (agility trinket) 55,103

Lightening Bolt (agility trinket on use) 19,084
Earth Shock (agility trinket on use) 17,908
Elemental Blast (agility trinket on use) 60,547

Lightening Bolt (agility trinket + EB's mastery buff) 18.775
Earth Shock (agility trinket + EB's mastery buff) 17,788
Elemental Blast (agility trinket + EB's mastery buff) 59,730

Lightening Bolt (agility trinket on use + EB's mastery buff) 20,686
Earth Shock (agility trinket on use + EB's mastery buff) 19,412
Elemental Blast (agility trinket on use + EB's mastery buff) 65,631

Lightening Bolt (both trinkets) 23,317
Earth Shock (both trinkets) 21,503
Elemental Blast (both trinkets) 73,617

Lightening Bolt (both trinkets + EB's mastery buff) 25,274
Earth Shock (both trinkets + EB's mastery buff) 23,309
Elemental Blast (both trinkets + EB's mastery buff) 79,798


I can't see how supposed I am to place MW5 on the first place, if Lightening Bolt is 3 times weaker than Elemental Blast and barely stronger than Earth Shock. No thanks, Simcraft.

[Nitwit]

I can't see how supposed I am to place MW5 on the first place, if Lightening Bolt is 3 times weaker than Elemental Blast and barely stronger than Earth Shock. No thanks, Simcraft.

1st, the simcraft profile is using UF, not EB, so nearly 2/3 of the LB casts are 30% stronger.

2nd, "barely stronger than earth shock" means a lot less in MoP than it did in Cata, because Earth Shock was buffed significantly.

3rd, the simcraft profile does place EB at the top (if you pick EB as your end talent).

4th, "min/max" means "minimizing losses, maximizing gains." You only seem to be focused on the 2nd part of that equation. Placing 5 stack MW above our weapon strikes minimizes the number of maelstrom charges we waste.

5th, neither those tooltip values nor the DPET chart on simcraft include Echo procs, which closes part of the gap between LB (+ES) and EB/SS/LL (if you pick echo as your t60 talent)

* EDIT: 6th, the simcraft output includes the tier 14 bonus

[Orrion]

Not sure about your 4th point. I mean, it's logical enough, but Cataclysm didn't follow it, so it's not a written in stone example.