Heroic Dungeons too easy

[Orange Joe]

It doesn't give gear, its not new content. Its just a race to complete a dungeon as fast a possible. My best memories in WoW were spending 3-4 hours in a heroic dungeon on a Saturday afternoon working through difficult content and a tank with a shitty computer. I want actual challenging content that pushes players to actually playing near perfect. Heal too often and you are out of mana. Heal too slow and the tank dies.


And T11 was nerfed when firelands was released. It was pretty much the only good tier in all of Cataclysm. The shittastic firelands dailies were more of a problem than any raid content.

My worst time in wow was spending 3-4 hours clearing a heroic trying to gear up for raids that last for 3-4 hours....

why am i spending the same amount of time in a dungeon as I am a raid?

[Deleted]

The majority of the quits happened due to the massive failure that T11 was, so extremely overtuned and ridiculous that they openly stated that the playerbase took way too long and wasn't ready for a new raid in 4.1. So T12 (Abyssal Maw) was scrapped completely and replaced by 2 Zandalari dungeons, then a few months later FL became the new T12.

[Osmeric]

Actually no, nerfing the content and the DS launch stopped the sub loss. In the quarter where Firelands was nerfed subs lost dropped to 100k, in the DS launch quarter, subs loss stopped completely. Only after more than 8 months without content the sub loss resumed..

FL was nerfed in Q3 2011, when they had 800K sub losses. But about 500K of those losses were likely in China (which was on 4.1), and the FL nerf occurred only near the end of the quarter, so ascribing the western losses to it is dubious at best. More likely, the nerf was a response to losses in the quarter (and earlier), not a cause.

The only big net loss after all the nerfs was Q2 2012, and that can be blamed on D3 and expansion fatigue.

[Crashdummy]

The nerfing into the ground happened far before 4.3.

Blizzard has the survey people complete when unsubbing. Their reaction to the sub loss was to nerf content.

Now, use your brain, what do you think those surveys were saying, that content was too easy (remember Blizzards reaction was to nerf content and make easy heroics in 4.3) or that it was too hard?

Think, its a good thing to do.

[ripponesan]

They are easy, yes. But considering you need to do 34 a week to get your 1000 valor points they are still too timeconsuming.

[Crashdummy]

FL was nerfed in Q3 2011, when they had 800K sub losses. But about 500K of those losses were likely in China (which was on 4.1), and the FL nerf occurred only near the end of the quarter, so ascribing the western losses to it is dubious at best. More likely, the nerf was a response to losses in the quarter (and earlier), not a cause.

The only big net loss after all the nerfs was Q2 2012, and that can be blamed on D3 and expansion fatigue.

You should re read what i wrote and you quoted. I'm agreeing with you, i even said the nerfs STOPPED the sub loss.

[elderamy]

only these options? how biased can you be?

[Deleted]

They are easy, yes. But considering you need to do 34 a week to get your 1000 valor points they are still too timeconsuming.

Why 34? Do your dailys, and kill your 6 raid bosses every week.

[Deleted]

If only we had instances that required several hours of time investment to complete....Oh wait, we do. They're called raids.

Well, I don't need to spend hours in a single dungeon; I just want do do something besides stupid facerolling in dungeons.
In fact, our whole guild is that demotivated from the extremely dumb and lame braindead-easy-mode dungeons, they just don't want do do them any more; So gearing up for raids or challenge modes is a bit hard.

[Osmeric]

You should re read what i wrote and you quoted. I'm agreeing with you, i even said the nerfs STOPPED the sub loss.

I was just correcting and shoring up one minor problem in your post, so the person you were arguing with didn't jump all over it.

[Elegiac]

Well, I don't need to spend hours in a single dungeon; I just want do do something besides stupid facerolling in dungeons.
In fact, our whole guild is that demotivated from the extremely dumb and lame braindead-easy-mode dungeons, they just don't want do do them any more; So gearing up for raids or challenge modes is a bit hard.

And yet you have the gall to admonish people for some percieved lack of effort.

[Akshak]

And yet you have the gall to admonish people for some percieved lack of effort.

You can't make everyone happy obviously.
A shame the law doesn't allow us all one good "STFU" Smack for these types eh?

[Elegiac]

It's a shame the emphasis of challenge modes is on speed rather than avoiding avoidable damage or similar.

True, but they are a new feature. Perhaps in the future there will be new rankings other facets of the dungeon.

[Crashdummy]

It's a shame the emphasis of challenge modes is on speed rather than avoiding avoidable damage or similar, especially after the team that was interviewed on the front page admitted to using invisibility potions to skip trash.

I think this is a problem of the tool being in its initial stage. I expect them to change it in the future to give points for killing everything killable in the dungeon, for taking the least amount of damage int he dungeon as well as speed which could make them more interesting.

[Deleted]

With the inclusion of LFR easy mode raiding, it's realy natural that heroic 5 men have droped a little in dificulty, its only natural so that the more casual oriented playerbase has a more fluid gear progression.

The people that are over the average player already has access to 5 men chalenge modes, normal mode 10 men raiding, HC 10 men raiding, normal mode 25 men raiding, HC 25 men raiding, excluding any kind of PVP.


It's been clear that blizzard realy needs to give casual players and hard-core players something to do. Extremely hard heroic 5 men dungeons were too much in the middle ground... hard-core players didnt do them because they were raiding and casual players werent doing them (happily) because they were too hard in the beggining.

It's only natural this shift to lower dificulty in heroic 5 men since the inclusion of Chalenge modes for harder chalenge, and shifting heroics 5 men to a steping stone in gear progression into casual LFR raiding.

Imho, feels almoust perfect.

[Zka]

No, they were not. You just made yourself look like an idiot, since yesterday already. You really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to WoW anyway.

Yes they were. All except Loken and Skadi, which required blue gear to faceroll. You could not stand in Loken's aoe in green gear, you had too few hp. And Skadi was just exhausting to heal in bad gear. Basically nothing else required any kind of serious gear, skill or concentration to beat. So we can safely say that LK heroics were facerollable on the first week.

[Deleted]

Yes they were. All except Loken and Skadi, which required blue gear to faceroll. You could not stand in Loken's aoe in green gear, you had too few hp. And Skadi was just exhausting to heal in bad gear. Basically nothing else required any kind of serious gear, skill or concentration to beat. So we can safely say that LK heroics were facerollable on the first week.

Except for the wipefests at Bran Bronzebeard, King Dred, Xevozz, Ley-Guardian Eregos, and especially in Ahn'Kahet during the first few weeks.
Every 2nd person instantly left the group after the AK and Oculus loading screens, even during ToC times.

[Deleted]

Except for the wipefests at Bran Bronzebeard, King Dred, Xevozz, Ley-Guardian Eregos, and especially in Ahn'Kahet during the first few weeks.
Every 2nd person instantly left the group after the AK and Oculus loading screens, even during ToC times.

Don't forget the famous Occulus, the most "loved" heroic in entire LK expansion. :P

[Sam the Wiser]

way to easy...

[Deleted]

If you find it easy then play challenge modes. After the damage cata had done you'd think people here would have learnt.