U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Fuzzzie]

Please avoid flaming back when someone posts something bad. Report to us and let us handle it. It only complicates things for you if you respond in a negative way.

[ptwonline]

Looks like Iran may have blinked and are suspending some of their uranium enrichment. If this is true, then it's a HUGE vindication of Obama's policy towards Iran. AFAIK only Guardian (UK) covering this so far, so this is still tentative.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ium-enrichment

[Wells]

Looks like Iran may have blinked and are suspending some of their uranium enrichment. If this is true, then it's a HUGE vindication of Obama's policy towards Iran. AFAIK only Guardian (UK) covering this so far, so this is still tentative.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ium-enrichment

Clearly Iran is just doing it to help the weakling Obama get reelected.

[Grizzly Willy]

If Iran was part of a conspiracy to get Obama reelected, then there would be something fucking huge going on.

[ptwonline]

If Iran was part of a conspiracy to get Obama reelected, then there would be something fucking huge going on.

I'm waiting for conservative pundits to spin this as "Iran knows Romney will win, so they're scared and backing down because of his tough talk".

If Iran and Obama were conspiring together, then Iran is run by total idiots. Their economy is being destroyed by these sanctions.

[Kalyyn]

To be fair, we have seen that sort of behavior in the past from these regimes. They aren't blind to the inner workings of US politics. They know full well that Republicans are more heavy-handed in foreign policy, so they tend to pull a lot more crap when there is a Democrat in office. Then when a Republican gets in, they quiet down a lot.

I think if you all thought about it for a moment, you'd remember in 2008 when Iran was claiming they were ready to open talks again with President Bush. They feared him, that much was clear. But they dragged the whole thing out until after Obama took power, and then they walked away from the table.

Our enemies aren't stupid. They know that Democrats have a strong aversion to war. Iran would much rather see Obama reelected, because Romney is far more likely to take action against them.

[Wells]

To be fair, we have seen that sort of behavior in the past from these regimes. They aren't blind to the inner workings of US politics. They know full well that Republicans are more heavy-handed in foreign policy, so they tend to pull a lot more crap when there is a Democrat in office. Then when a Republican gets in, they quiet down a lot.

uummmmm....what? I mean are you seriously implying that the democrat in office, the one who only gives vague fucks about state sovereignty and green lights drone attacks on anyone who looks at us wrong is light on people in the middle east?

Democrats don't have an aversion to war. They have an aversion to wars they don't need. Democrats are fucking great at war when they're in charge of it.

[Kalyyn]

uummmmm....what? I mean are you seriously implying that the democrat in office, the one who only gives vague fucks about state sovereignty and green lights drone attacks on anyone who looks at us wrong is light on people in the middle east?

Democrats don't have an aversion to war. They have an aversion to wars they don't need. Democrats are fucking great at war when they're in charge of it.

Simple question: Who is more likely to begin raining bombs down on Iran? Romney or Obama?

[Rukentuts]

Simple question: Who is more likely to begin raining bombs down on Iran? Romney or Obama?

Depends. If they develop a nuke or get past that "red line" I'd say the chances are equal.

[Grizzly Willy]

Wait, so we are using the "they're scared of Romney" tactic then?

[Wells]

Simple question: Who is more likely to begin raining bombs down on Iran? Romney or Obama?

Kalyyn you might want to take a step back here and look at what you're claiming.

[Kalyyn]

Wait, so we are using the "they're scared of Romney" tactic then?

Here's the thing: Even if it bankrupts us and deeply divides our populace, once America commits to war with your nation, it's gone. You've lost it, and there's nothing you can do about it. Of course Iran is scared of a warmonger president. It's their existence on the line. You'd be scared to. They are hell-bent on getting this bomb, and they aren't going to stop. Anyone can see that. Even if they aren't trying to influence the election, they're definitely watching it closely.

---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 04:58 AM ----------

Kalyyn you might want to take a step back here and look at what you're claiming.

I'd rather you just answered the question.

[Grizzly Willy]

Because we did a swell job with North Korea and Vietnam.

[Rukentuts]

Both Obama and Romney will rain bombs on Iran if they continue developing a nuke. The chances are higher that Romney would begin on Jan. 21st, however.

[Wells]

I'd rather you just answered the question.

Who the fuck knows? And it doesn't matter. Obama is incredibly hawkish. To say that Iran wants him in power to avoid a war is nonsensical. You're seriously arguing here that they're giving him what he wants to keep a guy in power who won't use force to get what he wants. You're claiming they're giving America everything it wants to avoid having to give America everything it wants. Its piss poor reasoning.

---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 05:03 AM ----------

Not to mention Occam's Razor. What's simpler, that his foreign policy is working or that Iran is trying keep Obama in office because they think he's easier on them than Romney would be, even though they have essentially the same stance on Iran?

Also if they're trying to keep Obama in office wouldn't they have been making larger concessions for longer?

[Kalyyn]

Because we did a swell job with North Korea and Vietnam.

I think you'll find that a lot of what you believe about those wars are actually misconceptions. You should read the wikipedia entry on both of them. They actually happened a lot differently than what most people believe. Specifically the part where we were obliterating the ever-loving shit out of our enemies until our politicians lost their nerve.

For example, did you know that we were doing so well in Korea, that General Mcarthur was defeating the communist Koreans so thoroughly, that he actually wanted to keep going and conquer China while he was there? He was about to do it, too, when Eisenhower threatened him with court martial and demanded he pull back. Poor choice on Eisenhower's part, I think.

---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 05:12 AM ----------

Also if they're trying to keep Obama in office wouldn't they have been making larger concessions for longer?

I'll just put it this way. Let's you and me both write down a little note reminding ourselves of this conversation. We both know Obama is going to be reelected, so we'll certainly get to settle this. After the election, I promise you Iran will walk away from negotiations again. By January, they will be back to refusing to talk and working on their bomb.

Would you like to make this a wager? I'm sure we could work out some sort of prize.

[Wells]

McArther wanted to attack China because they were backing North Korea. He wanted to use nukes.

Kalyyn if you want to discuss the issue then great, but I'm not going to engage in e-peen stroking now or in the future.

[Grizzly Willy]

So, a Republican cost us Korea and possibly China?

[ptwonline]

To be fair, we have seen that sort of behavior in the past from these regimes. They aren't blind to the inner workings of US politics. They know full well that Republicans are more heavy-handed in foreign policy, so they tend to pull a lot more crap when there is a Democrat in office. Then when a Republican gets in, they quiet down a lot.

I think if you all thought about it for a moment, you'd remember in 2008 when Iran was claiming they were ready to open talks again with President Bush. They feared him, that much was clear. But they dragged the whole thing out until after Obama took power, and then they walked away from the table.

Our enemies aren't stupid. They know that Democrats have a strong aversion to war. Iran would much rather see Obama reelected, because Romney is far more likely to take action against them.

Ever heard the name "Saddam Hussein"? You know, the guy who pulled a lot of crap when a Republican was in office even when it turns out he had nothing to hide?

Ever heard the name Osama Bin Laden? He obviously was too terrified to try to pull anything with a Republican in office.

[Kalyyn]

So, a Republican cost us Korea and possibly China?

Was Eisenhower a Republican? Yes he was, how about that. But yeah, yes he did. I suppose in his defense, McArther wanted to use nuclear weapons to thin down the Chinese a bit, which would maybe have set a bad precedent, but I still think we should have taken it while it was weak. Now look at them...