Ganking - Official Blue Response

[Forumchibi]

Ugh guys, stop trying to play around with PvP as if the term has hidden meanings behind it. It's Player versus Player. Two people somewhere around the world with two characters who are against each other. It does not specify level, race, class, gender, talent tree, gear, or any of that nonsense.

I would love to know what a world PvPer thinks "good" PvP is. So getting beat up by someone higher than you is annoying, but so far all the complaining about is dislike over PvP because it's not "fair". Well where do you draw the line? Is 5 levels enough? 10 levels? 15? Just 1? What if you just hit 90, you have absolutely terrible green gear, and a top arena player smokes you and maybe even your friends, then camps you all for five hours straight? Are we going to restrict this to only certain item level ranges can duke it out, too?

I'm starting to imagine that every world PvPer must also be on an RP realm where they find the need to hail, bow to, officially challenge, and wait 30 seconds before attacking someone they randomly run across of the opposite faction in order to give both sides an equal chance at winning. World PvP has never been "fair", there has and will always be people ganking lowbies and someone skilled beating up people only to eventually be lose to someone else later, at any place, at any time. What's the joy in playing on a PvP server when you start imposing rules on where and when you can attack someone?

More than the people who supposedly have lost the "true definition" of PvP, it seems people have forgotten that the Alliance and Horde are openly at war, and neither side has to act honorably upon confrontation. Every time you see players of the opposite faction and are being merciful by simply letting them go and allowing them to live, Varian and Garrosh are facepalming in their throne rooms.

Edit: For the record, yes, it does suck that CRZ's introduction has brought lowbie ganking to an all time high and makes you feel like you're playing a different game, and I sympathize with anyone who doesn't want to start over elsewhere or pay the $25 to transfer out when low population servers gave you a false impression of what to expect.

[Deleted]

Personally I have no issue with ganking. My issue is how easy it is for the ganker to avoid combat once you have logged your main. They can fly off or move to a different zone which means if you follow you may not even be in the same CRZ with them.

Ganking is part of a PVP realm,and should not be stopped but at least in Vanilla you could follow them or even come across them again and exact retribution.

I am agree with you
I also have no problems with ganking even better now i have 2 accounts and some of mine 90 pvp geared toons is always around hidden in the bushes
Last time i cut off the heads on 3 persons before they understand whats going on Also mine favorite trick is to hide the pvp toon at some of tower in Helfire and come with mine small alt to capture it i use invisibility potions to can get hidden for a while till i alt tabbing to main toon and rape some stupid person who thinks that will oneshot me and fly off
Other trick is to jump on another zone using toon from diff realm helping alot also

BTW i very rarely see a ganker who have decent gear yes there are persons who kill your toon to force you to come with your main that is fair in mine eyes but they arent that much

[Katzuko]

I personally find ganking hilarious! I mean, there's a difference between ganking lvl 12s when you are 90 and ganking people while you're leveling yourself, doing dailies, or w/e :>

[philefluxx]

Ganking isn't a problem by itself. The problem is that with CRZ you get ganked with no ability to bring in your other, higher level character to drive off the ganker since they will likely be placed in a different instance. The devs always choose to ignore this fact when discussing world PVP via CRZ, and it's pretty annoying. Basically lowbies have to 'just deal with it' at this point, when even back in vanilla they had options.

Its becoming more clear that many of you dont know how the CRZ's work. Take some time and read the wiki, for now:

Q. Who will I be playing with?

You’ll be able to interact with players from within a select pool of realms which will make it possible to run into a player in Redridge that you already ran into within Westfall.

[Doktor Faustus]

Embrace the ganking... if you get annoyed, level with dungeons, battlegrounds or switch zones.

You are asking for trouble if you are levelling in:

The Blasted Lands (Both)
Northern Stranglethorn (Both)
Cape of Stranglethorn (Both)
Burning Steppes (Horde)
Searing Gorge (Horde)
Ashenvale Forest (Alliance)
Southern Barrens (Alliance)
Hellfire Peninsula (Both)
Sholozar Basin (Both)
Zul'Drak (Both)
Storm Peaks (Both)
Mount Hyjal (Both)
Deepholme (Both)

From my personal experience.

With heirlooms, rested XP and reduced XP for levels, 1-85 is easier than it's ever been XP wise - and you have multiple options as stated at the top of my post.

[Talen]

What you're describing is a PvE server. Where "honorable" behaviour is enforced.

PvP servers exist solely to allow for dishonorable no-holds-barred PvP.

People keep saying "I just want a server where I can PvP but 90s can't just gank me all day long". That's a PvE server. Nobody's making fun of you for preferring a PvE server. We're just asking that you play on them, rather than trying to turn PvP servers into PvE servers.

That is plainly ridiculous.

This is not a 100% "All or Nothing" scenario.

It ***IS*** possible for players to love PvP and yet hate the fact they are little more than a target for bored players who can't cut it in a real PvP environment and so manipulate events so that their target never gets a chance to experience PvP.

Nor do they. If these players - and there are a lot of them - refuse to actually engage in PvP by targetting others who can't possibly fight back, pose a challenge or even escape, then those gankers should march off to a PvE server whose environment actively supports that style of play and let those who wish to remain on PvP servers, and actively engage in PvP alone.

PvP should engender a sense of danger, unpredictability and excitement. Ganking offers none of this for either party. Especially when the ganker is one who runs away the moment he thinks his armor will get scratched. What it does offer such players is the feeling of power and the high that comes to any bully. It is ultimately behavior that is bad for the game, the community and PvP and - at best - is a set of rules that were devloped for the state of the game as it existed 6 years ago and have long since passed into near irrelevance. The only plus is that Blizzard doesn't have to put in time or effort to actually develop a working and balanced PvP system.

PvP servers were NOT designed "to allow for dishonorable no-holds-barred PvP". They were designed to allow players to engage in PvP. That isn't happening.

EJL

[Drfireburns]

I do hope this shuts some people up and they stop complaining as well. If you think it's bad now, you'd of quit the game in Vanilla/BC when trying to level.

[Endus]

That is plainly ridiculous.

It ***IS*** possible for players to love PvP and yet hate the fact they are little more than a target for bored players who can't cut it in a real PvP environment and so manipulate events so that their target never gets a chance to experience PvP.

Nor do they. If these players - and there are a lot of them - refuse to actually engage in PvP by targetting others who can't possibly fight back, pose a challenge or even escape, then those gankers should march off to a PvE server whose environment actively supports that style of play and let those who wish to remain on PvP servers, and actively engage in PvP alone.

PvP should engender a sense of danger, unpredictability and excitement. Ganking offers none of this for either party. Especially when the ganker is one who runs away the moment he thinks his armor will get scratched.

And all of that is available on PvE servers.

PvP servers wre NOT designed "to allow for dishonorable no-holds-barred PvP". They were designed to allow players to engage in PvP.

Not only is that not true, if you'd ever bothered to even read the PvP realm policy, you'd know it wasn't true;

PvP Realm Policies
Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable" are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master (GM) staff. Actions that fall into this category include, but are not limited to:

• Corpse camping.
• Tricking players into getting flagged for PvP (i.e. jumping in the middle of another player's area effect spell).
• Killing players well below your level

If this does not sound like an appealing gameplay experience, it is strongly recommended that you select a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. Although there will still be opportunities to occasionally test your PvP mettle on PvE servers, it is in a much more structured environment where you are empowered to choose when you wish to participate in PvP combat.

Source.

[Talen]

Embrace the ganking... if you get annoyed, level with dungeons, battlegrounds or switch zones.

Which is, ultimately a massive failure of the game design. I know more and more players levelling this way, which makes a complete mockery of Blizzards intention to put players back into the world. I don't know how widespread this is, but I'd love to know how much CRZ was covering this up, if at all.

And all of that is available on PvE servers.

Yes. But not, surprisingly enough, on PvP servers. If that is the type of environment gankers want, they shoudl move to a PvE realmw eher they can get it.

Not only is that not true, if you'd ever bothered to even read the PvP realm policy, you'd know it wasn't true

I know very well what the PvP policy states. That doesn't change the fact that PvP doesn't really happen that often on PvP servers. There is no Player vs Player.....there is bored noob with gear wandering through low level zone getting a rush of power by killing players who can't even touch him.

The "vs" part is missing. These attackers don't get any danger, they don't get any unpredictability, they don't get any suspense or challenge and often run away at the first sign their killing spree is about to end. If these players don't want to engage in PvP, they should step aside for those who do. There is, after all, a special place for players who don't want to engage in PvP - its called a PvE server.

EJL

[Jaylock]

Which is, ultimately a massive failure of the game design. I know more and more players levelling this way, which makes a complete mockery of Blizzards intention to put players back into the world. I don't know how widespread this is, but I'd love to know how much CRZ was covering this up, if at all.

Read Endus' post above yours which is OFFICIAL stance from blizzard. Pay special attention to the part where they recommend you to roll a PvE Server if you want a more structured experience and CHOOSE when you engage in PvP combat.

Yes. But not, surprisingly enough, on PvP servers. If that is the type of environment gankers want, they shoudl move to a PvE realmw eher they can get it.

Irrelevant, and not a smart idea.

I know very well what the PvP policy states. That doesn't change the fact that PvP doesn't really happen that often on PvP servers. There is no Player vs Player.....there is bored noob with gear wandering through low level zone getting a rush of power by killing players who can't even touch him.

You need to learn what Player Verses Player means. If you dont understand it, let me break it down for you: A level 90 player is: Player A. A level 1 player is: Player B

Player A Verses Player B = PvP. How else can you get it wrong?

[crakerjack]

What I don't understand is why people just don't hop on their main and kill the person killing their alt... if you can't kill him, then you're not as good as him at the game and you don't have very much to complain about... get better at the game and then you won't have so many issues, that's just how I see it. Back in TBC, people would hop on friends accounts or someone else's account just to bitch at me... "Hurr durr stop killing me rarrr i'll report you rerararereararerear" Almost makes me laugh thinking about those times.

What I'm trying to say is if you suck at the game, then get better.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Which is, ultimately a massive failure of the game design. I know more and more players levelling this way, which makes a complete mockery of Blizzards intention to put players back into the world. I don't know how widespread this is, but I'd love to know how much CRZ was covering this up, if at all.



Yes. But not, surprisingly enough, on PvP servers. If that is the type of environment gankers want, they shoudl move to a PvE realmw eher they can get it.



I know very well what the PvP policy states. That doesn't change the fact that PvP doesn't really happen that often on PvP servers. There is no Player vs Player.....there is bored noob with gear wandering through low level zone getting a rush of power by killing players who can't even touch him.

The "vs" part is missing. If these players don't want to engage in PvP, they should step aside for those who do. There is, after all, a special place for players who don't want to engage in PvP - its called a PvE server.

EJL

Oh dear, there is PvP on PvP realms, or we wouldn't have people crying here about how they got ganked, would we? No it's really as simple as that, I don't understand how people try to make out the only people that gank are things like "bored noobs" or idiots, or no skilled nubs etc etc, It's clear you're just mad at the fact you get ganked, It in no way whatsoever means the person is without skill, it means they are just killing lowbies, that's it

My opinion on "ganking" is i love it, I think it's awesome either way, when i recently leveled my shaman upto 90 i had a rather bothersome mage keep camping me, but i would just ress and hex, and flee, it's like a game of cat and mouse, i knew what i was getting myself in for when i signed up for a PvP server, and on my server WPvP happens ALL the time, ganking lowbies, Attacking citys, mass brawls in the dailys area, all over the place there is WPvP with 90s v 90s and there is also PvP with 90s v 12s or whatever, i will always kill lowbies, unless they're a druid (my mains a druid, and i like to stick to the Druids code) I generally won't camp them, unless i get some silly emote then they can die for as many times as they spammed me:P

[Deleted]

I don't gank randoms normally. Few days ago though, I have been skeeel-ganked (that's my definition of ganking while exploiting the terrain or various game mechanics to give yourself a massive advantage) so many times that I got pissed and started ganking horde at random in pandaland.

Got ganked on the island in Lion's Landing (the one with the gnomes and shredders and stuff) by an elem shaman landing on the high ledges and shooting at me. Fighting him was impossible as 1. unlike warriors my monk can't charge uphills and unlike dks my monk can't bring the target to him and 2. if I actually got close he would thunderfuck me into the water where he would have another advantage once again.

Got ganked at the hozen mob that does rains of fire that really hurt. This rogue would wait in stealth until I pulled and then attacked me. Yeah, stunned and taking massive damage from that rain of fire. Skills right there.

You know, I don't care when I get ganked by someone much higher level nor do I care when I simply lose a fair 1v1, as fair as it might be, but to lose to some noobtard who needs to exploit something in order to win, pisses me off.

[Jaylock]

Got ganked at the hozen mob that does rains of fire that really hurt. This rogue would wait in stealth until I pulled and then attacked me. Yeah, stunned and taking massive damage from that rain of fire. Skills right there.

LOL! I'm tempted to level my rogue to 90 for this very purpose right here! Thanks for the great idea!

[Pann]

Oh dear, there is PvP on PvP realms, or we wouldn't have people crying here about how they got ganked, would we? No it's really as simple as that, I don't understand how people try to make out the only people that gank are things like "bored noobs" or idiots, or no skilled nubs etc etc, It's clear you're just mad at the fact you get ganked, It in no way whatsoever means the person is without skill, it means they are just killing lowbies, that's it

My opinion on "ganking" is i love it, I think it's awesome either way, when i recently leveled my shaman upto 90 i had a rather bothersome mage keep camping me, but i would just ress and hex, and flee, it's like a game of cat and mouse, i knew what i was getting myself in for when i signed up for a PvP server, and on my server WPvP happens ALL the time, ganking lowbies, Attacking citys, mass brawls in the dailys area, all over the place there is WPvP with 90s v 90s and there is also PvP with 90s v 12s or whatever, i will always kill lowbies, unless they're a druid (my mains a druid, and i like to stick to the Druids code) I generally won't camp them, unless i get some silly emote then they can die for as many times as they spammed me:P

There cannot have been much of a level difference between your shamen and the mage or you would not have been able to hex him as the spell would have missed every time. But overall I think you proved the point that people that gank others are not the most skilled if he was unable to master one of the most basic PVP skills and interrupt your spell casting.

[Talen]

Irrelevant, and not a smart idea.

Why? They obviously don't want PvP.

You need to learn what Player Verses Player means. If you dont understand it, let me break it down for you: A level 90 player is: Player A. A level 1 player is: Player B

Player A Verses Player B = PvP. How else can you get it wrong?

Player vs Player is a sttate of affairs in a game wghich indicates a contest between two players represented on screen by various avatars. When one of those avatars is stonger by several scales of magnitude than the other, there is no "vs".

EJL

[Endus]

I know very well what the PvP policy states.

Since you stated something that was in direct contradiction to the policy, I do not believe you. You know what you WISH it said, but not what it ACTUALLY says.

That doesn't change the fact that PvP doesn't really happen that often on PvP servers. There is no Player vs Player.....there is bored noob with gear wandering through low level zone getting a rush of power by killing players who can't even touch him.

That's PvP. The whole thread here is complaining about CRZ adding too much PvP.

The "vs" part is missing. These attackers don't get any danger, they don't get any unpredictability, they don't get any suspense or challenge and often run away at the first sign their killing spree is about to end.

None of what you described is in any way implied by the word "versus". That is, again, something you are inventing. You're making it up. You may as well tell us that a unicorn appeared to you in a spaceship and told you that Fluggworxxl the Magnificent has decreed that "versus" really means "vanilla ice cream with sprinkles". It would be about as credible.

The word has a meaning. It is NOT what you're claiming it is.

[Talen]

Oh dear, there is PvP on PvP realms, or we wouldn't have people crying here about how they got ganked, would we? No it's really as simple as that, I don't understand how people try to make out the only people that gank are things like "bored noobs" or idiots, or no skilled nubs etc etc, It's clear you're just mad at the fact you get ganked, It in no way whatsoever means the person is without skill, it means they are just killing lowbies, that's it

No skill required. No challenege posed. Running away when someone remotely close their level shows up.

Sound familiar? There is no skill is killing a lowbie. There is no challenge, no danger. The attacker might as well be on a PvE realm for all the PvPing that occurs.

My opinion on "ganking" is i love it, I think it's awesome either way, when i recently leveled my shaman upto 90 i had a rather bothersome mage keep camping me, but i would just ress and hex, and flee, it's like a game of cat and mouse,

Where one party can't run...can't hide...can't fight.

EJL

[Endus]

No skill required. No challenege posed. Running away when someone remotely close their level shows up.

Sound familiar? There is no skill is killing a lowbie. There is no challenge, no danger. The attacker might as well be on a PvE realm for all the PvPing that occurs.

Requiring skill or posing a challenge is NOT a requirement for activity to be classed as "PvP". You're continuing to make stuff up. Red is not green, no matter how loudly you insist that it is.

[Talen]

Since you stated something that was in direct contradiction to the policy, I do not believe you. You know what you WISH it said, but not what it ACTUALLY says.

Your perogative. Comparing how things are now with how they began is, however, slightly misleading. There is a lot of player behavior that still catches Blizzard by surprise.

That's PvP. The whole thread here is complaining about CRZ adding too much PvP.

You can't have too much PvP.

The word has a meaning. It is NOT what you're claiming it is.

The word has a meaning. Sure. "Against".

"Player vs Player" has a different meaning. It means two players fighting each other and the usual expectation, in my experience, is that both players tend to envisage a relatively fair contest where both have a chance at victory.

EJL