The effects of TES: Online on WoW

[Gothicshark]

Stay classy

So can we call WoW and everquest clone? It fits all of the parameters

WOW copied a lot from EQ, after-all one of it's head Developers is the former top raider on EQ. This said the only people who play EQ are the same people who have always played EQ. they will be unaffected by anything WOW or any other MMO does at this point. Just like EVE which is a true Sci-Fi MMO has a steady growth curve of subscribers. they would be unaffected by any new games or WOW expansions. The game which have something to fear are the ones which do not offer a unique experience and have low customer loyalty. Of course these players are not what Elder Scrolls is aimed at, they are aimed at the Elder Scrolls player base and the First Person crowd. Which Is what I am, I love FPS, I love Elder Scrolls. I'm the type of Person who would play such an MMO. At the same time I like goofing off with my cartoony Gnome in a Cartoony World of Warcraft. For me this is a question of Apples and Pizza, I can do both.

[Beefhammer]

WoW will have to step up its char models, for one. Also, the sense of exploration and adventure in TESO will be unmatched by any game, ever. Goodluck Blizz trying to copy that sense.

Well it is going to be a different game than WoW. WoW never really had exploration like TES. and TESO will be nothing like TES games.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:36 PM ----------

Of all the MMOs we've seen, I think the cream of the crop was last year between ToR, GW2, and TSW.

Elder Scrolls Online to me looks like slipping back to the typical "copy WoW" formula with nothing new to it. Blizz will not need to beat it, the game will beat itself.

An the people have spoken and said they are pretty much crap. No one plays TOR or TSW anymore, and not many are on my GW2 server when I log on it used to be completely packed a few months ago.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:39 PM ----------

Didn't Amalur tank? I mean the studio who made it was shut down

It would have been fine if they didn't over borrow. The game did not do as well as it was expected to do but it was still a good game. Fun fact, Republican Curt Schilling borrowed public money and wasted it but is totally against helping out people who actually need help with public funds.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:43 PM ----------

To know what effects TES:O will have on WoW, we'll have to know what TES:O is about a bit more.

But to start off: The 3 faction thing I dont think will be plausible at this stage of WoW, so nothing from that.
Combo-ing with friends could be cool, but I don't think wow will add that. (More imbalance in grouping)

Stam/block and combat not being realtime is also something that woW will not be able to implement, but maybe they could add a class that works like that (I doubt it tho)


Mobs having increased AI (Not just more skills) in dungeons is something that I would like to see and maybe has a potential to be something that WoW will 'steal' and try to implement in their game.

I think they can do third faction of forsaken, being any new character created or paid faction change. They would have to allow all classes, old undead stay in the horde, but the new ones that followed Sylvanas could be, or the BEs/highelves. Wouldn't be hard for lore but making it work and balance things out I dunno. I still think they are working towards no factions, combined forces Azeroth vs. whomever.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:45 PM ----------

TES:O currently doesn't look like it's bringing anything new to the table
It's a cut-and-paste template MMO with TES lore and graphics

There'll be nothing for WoW to copy

But its not, its a modified, or dumbed down TES. You can be a tank that uses a bow. Leveling up any skill you wantto work on no matter what "class" you decide to be. Plate wearing two handed mace wielding necromancer anyone?

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:49 PM ----------

You are not only one. When I look at all those WoW killers with super duper graphics they just look "meh" for modern standards, while WoW graphics will last for some time.

I love the stand the test of time arguments whe it comes to the better look graphical games. It is those that when you look back at them and go ew man that looks horrible. I mean EQ2 looked "better" than WoW and look at the two now. WoW holds up because of its art style. EQ2 looks like crap because it used hig end graphics for a PC 8 years ago.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:50 PM ----------

Like, this is a game made by a company with no MMO experience, barely any game-making experience and who haven't made any TES games
Obviously it's made up of people with industry experience but this is the first time their team has made anything as a company
Please, for yourself, don't get your expectations too high

It's always possible they'll knock something out of the park but considering that MMOs are among the hardest games to get right with the most complicated interlocking systems
it's almost certainly not going to happen

What MMO experience did Blizzard have?

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:52 PM ----------

Measuring MMOs based on WoW is a waste of time and energy. That includes both for anxiety over, and desperate longing for, something to be a "WoW killer". There won't be a "WoW killer" other than a change in either the general economy or the entire gaming market. Yet, there will be other MMOs that find success and profitability. Having more subs than WoW is not what gets these guys out of bed in the morning, or their investors, because "more subs than WoW" is not the measure of success. "Taking in more money than it costs us to bring the product to market" is. Not just for an MMO, but for everything.

So I think TESO has potential to do quite well. It's unlikely that it will ever go north of 10 million, probably not even 5 million concurrent active subscriptions, though. But can still be a tremendous success even if not.

Shareholders care not about subscription numbers but profitability. Was lost 2M subs in a little over a year and profits continued to increase. SWTOR is a success even though we mostly claim it to be a failure and dead. All it needed was 500K paying subs to make a profit.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:54 PM ----------

I can tell you exactly what ESO will be like now.

Generic MMO. Little new. A crappy, bloated UI with little to no modability. Will launch with a fee, will go free to play later. Basically every MMO in the last few years. It's pretty much a market doomed for failure, WoW pretty much gets away with itself by having such a large pre-existing base. It's pretty much grandfathered in!

Then you know nothing about it. You can visit their site and see what is in store already. Will it be earth shattering and completely revolutionary? No. Will it have some concepts not seen or rarely seen in MMOs? yes. Will it be a copy/paste generic MMO with TES flavor. No.

[Ikkarus]

I would really like if TES Online end up being an awesome game, WoW needs an enemy in the MMO universe, a little competition would be good for both games.

But considering what we know till now looks like TES Online is committing the same mistakes of the others MMOs, they are investing too much in the leveling experience and letting the end game in second plan, the entire game may be awesome but when you reach the max level and you end up having nothing to do, is easy for the players to lose the interest and return to their previous games.

[Beefhammer]

I can bet you 100% the game will flop. Every MMO out there cannot over run WoW. It never will. TES is a series that should just stay single player imo, I really dislike the fact it's now become a MMO.

So being successful means toppling WoW? Again, SWTOR is successful.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:01 PM ----------

none of those listed are a wow clone

SWTOR and Rift are. Especially Rift. While they are not completely 100% the same they share enough to be related just like humans and chimps.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:02 PM ----------

saw this new game on flipboard the other day "Black Deserts" seems promising check the lastest trailer out http://vimeo.com/57829622#

Talk about your boring and generic fantasy game that will look like garbage in three years.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:07 PM ----------

WoW is one of a kind, no one will ever produce that amount of success a bet my monthly pay that even blizzard didnt expect that huge success. If an mmo keeps a solid constant player base of 500k+ and its profitable to me is a success. You cant measure success with the success that WoW had/have it is impossible now to reach that.

One thing I would like to add, MoP sold less than Cata on day 1, and some people (or better clueless people) said that MoP lanch was a fail, which is retarted because selling millions of copies in the first week is amazing, but if you compare to precious WoW sales it was a fail, tahts the point I mean with my post.

That was boxed copies. Unfortunately we will have to wait until the 7th to find out how well it did digitally. I am in 2 guilds 1 small 100 people, one large, 475 people. No one bought a box in the small guild less than 10% bought a box in the large one. If you combine the two I bet it was the highest selling expansion.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:10 PM ----------

Most people are too blinded by confirmation bias to ever recognize anything close to a WOW killer when it finally comes along. They automatically assume now it can't happen because of the last 8 years. It's going to happen someday, probably slowly, and the game that used to have the best chance of doing it was Star Wars, which was fumbled by Bioware and made for a small niche of people who like KOTOR with badly optimized graphics and a terrible excuse for online persistent virtual worlds.

Elder Scrolls has a lot of cool stuff going on in the game that I've seen through the E3 video and the 20 minute gameplay videos, and it's got great popularity from Skyrim's explosion, so it will definitely be pulling in newcomers to the MMO genre.

I don't think WOW has much to worry about though, people will always come back for a new expansion for a while to check it out because it's become a tradition of sorts for many people, like an old friend.

The only thing I see Elder Scrollls offering is possibly combat that is more fun with their half realized action combat, and the movement looks solid and the world and terrain look inviting and looks like somewhere I want to visit.

Personally, I think the only thing that's going to challenge WOW would be a game with combat like Darksiders with a world and online community the size of WOW. I really like Darksiders, it reminds me of the WOW action RPG that should have been.

I like tangents too. And white chocolate.

Wildstar I think is something that's going to be a great game as well.

I think you underestimate the amount of people who dislike action oriented MMOs.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:15 PM ----------

The games still retain a good number of perhaps former subs to WoW. Rift for example took a good 1 million or so WoW players Star Wars held on to just over 500,000, etc.

Of course these numbers are very estimate, not everyone that plays Rift or Star Wars also played WoW.

Needless to say, there will be a drop in WoW subs upon the release of TES. I predict that WoW subs will bounce back from TES but not everyone that goes to TES will come back to WoW likewise not everyone that goes to TES will stay there. WoW will get some of its lost population back, but not all of it.

When Rift came out that Quarter the lost 600k the 300k. They were attributed to Asian bans mostly. Rift did not take 1M from WoW. They didn't even lose 1M in the quarter that it would have been noticed.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:19 PM ----------

It's been about 6-9 months since I played WoW but has the combat changed recently or something? Tab-targeting has been in WoW since the begging and I'm fairly certain they haven't said anything about changing the way targeting/"aiming" works?

Not really, some fights show radius effect circles or some smoke on the ground where a big attack will show up. Mostly for Big 1 hit kill abilities or because of the intensity of spell effects may make it harder to see the tells. Wildstar's big draw seems to be mobs telegraphing their attacks with brightly lit areas marked on the ground for you to avoid if you are fast enough. Seem sway too gimmicky.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 11:24 PM ----------

No, WOW is tab targetting.

Wildstar is a new MMO in the making that has both a kind of dynamic aim based combat if you want to make use of it or you can stick with WOW's style.
I am just throwing ideas at the wall of new innovations WOW may incorporate. They also created telegraphs and started showing them a year ago which showed up in WOW recently that seems inspired by Wildstar, something I was hoping to see in WOW when I saw Wildstar showing it off.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRncUenUZY4

I like it though. It is not over used in WoW, not all mobs telegraph with obvious marks on the ground. Some use sound, cast bars, visual clues. Wildstar seems to be making this a draw for the game, which seems like a cheap gimmick to me.

[willowe]

GW2, Rifts, and every other WOW clone MMO

You don't know what the word "clone" means, do you?

I also bet you've never played either to level cap. Rift (not Rifts, Rifts is a D&D like RPG that is set in a totally different universe) has a vastly different style of play than WoW. Instant Adventures, Carnage Quests, Dimensions (Player Housing), Leaderboards, Conquest, dynamic class 'talent tree' options with more viable builds than WoW could stuff into 50 classes, and that's just the stuff off the top of my head. It's a hotbar MMO, yes, it hasn't been anywhere close to a 'clone' since March '11. Thanks for keeping up on facts.

And GW2....really? Yeah you have zero clue what a clone is, do you? I'm not even going to list everything that's different, instead I'll list the things that are the same: It has sPvP maps that are 'capture point' maps. You level up. Um, Renowned Hearts are just an altered form of kill quests.....

[Pann]

That was boxed copies. Unfortunately we will have to wait until the 7th to find out how well it did digitally. I am in 2 guilds 1 small 100 people, one large, 475 people. No one bought a box in the small guild less than 10% bought a box in the large one. If you combine the two I bet it was the highest selling expansion.

The figures released for MOP first week sales included sales from all sources.

When Rift came out that Quarter the lost 600k the 300k. They were attributed to Asian bans mostly. Rift did not take 1M from WoW. They didn't even lose 1M in the quarter that it would have been noticed.

The lose of subs was not attributed to Asian bans. The quarter in which Rift was released they attributed the loss of subs due to players consuming content at a faster rate than expected.

[MisterMxyzptlk]

Slim to None. at most we will see lower populations for a month, and maybe blizz "borrowing" a feature or two.

Related: I really think they are making a mistake making TES into an MMO, as you can not make it the same experience. There are several reasons.
In Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim, YOU are the hero, not you and your friends.
Lots of TES fans like TES due to its dynamic world, From a technical standpoint I don't see how they can make it have the same dynamic world experience as Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim.
One thing people enjoy doing with TES is modding them and making new content, cant do that with an MMO.
In short, they might make a good MMO but it wont appeal to those who like the game play aspect of Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 08:21 PM ----------

So being successful means toppling WoW? Again, SWTOR is successful.[COLOR="red"]
snip

It is? I was not aware that being forced into going F2P to keep a player base means its successful?
In my opinion successful means not going F2P to get people to play again...

[Vorticough]

Either it'll prove to be decent competition and benefit both or, if past "WoW killers" have proven anything, it'll do next to nothing and WoW will borrow one or two token implementations. Mostly hoping it's the former, but I won't hold my breath.

[Yig]

I would really like if TES Online end up being an awesome game, WoW needs an enemy in the MMO universe, a little competition would be good for both games.

But considering what we know till now looks like TES Online is committing the same mistakes of the others MMOs, they are investing too much in the leveling experience and letting the end game in second plan, the entire game may be awesome but when you reach the max level and you end up having nothing to do, is easy for the players to lose the interest and return to their previous games.

I've watched all the content available on this game and I really don't see how you infer that without some kind of selective judgement at work. The game seems mostly endgame to me from all I've see(while still seeming to have a lot of questing and exploring). Whether by PVP or PVE both, the main experience is the 3 faction war controlling Cyrodil. I think the only thing they've done to inspire this opinion of there being not much of an endgame is merely mention that they have an important aspect of PVE questing that makes it feel like an Elder Scrolls title. But they've spoken much more about the war for the Imperial throne and how the world will be constantly in a state of flux in the videos I've seen.

I would say these are the most in depth videos I've found on the actual game. Perhaps I've just interpreted what I've heard differently.

http://youtu.be/KxJTsq2XeKY

http://youtu.be/ugSSwuKsPKI

*edit* Forgot to add, it's pretty common to see people complaining on their forum that they've overlooked a robust leveling experience in favor of an endgame. I suppose people do complain about everything, but it seems a common debate there I've noticed.

[Orangetai420]

We all know how this will turn out.

The game will be crazy hyped, there will be people proclaiming it to be the next big thing, one month after launch it flops and goes F2P.

WoW carries on and possibly takes a few good ideas from TES.

[lanerios]

Rift and SWTOR are the quintessential WOW clones, Rifts looked at WOW and tried to do the same thing only better, their whole marketing system when they came out was comparing Rift to WOW and saying why Rift was better. SWTOR is WOW 1.0 in space with total voice acting.

However I listed out the top fantasy MMOS in my list, I didn't say they had to be WOW clones.


I do think that other fantasy MMOs may have something to fear, but the nature of WOW and TES are so different they they will not compete with each other.

This sentence means I am talking about the total Fantasy Genre.



However Aion, Lineagae, Runscape, SWTOR, GW2, Rifts, and every other WOW clone MMO that has come out over the last ten years has a lot to fear from TES.


The structure of this sentence is listing Fantasy MMOs, and then I include any MMO that copies WOW this does not mean the listed MMOs are WOW clones it means they are Fantasy MMOs, I then include all the Nameless WOW clones.

Learn English if you want to attack me directly because you clearly did not read and comprehend my sentence structure.

If you want to start the english debate, learn to build your sentence structure better. Right now your last line:

However Aion, Lineagae, Runscape, SWTOR, GW2, Rifts, and every other WOW clone MMO that has come out over the last ten years has a lot to fear from TES.

Heavily implies that you think all former are WoW clones. And maybe if you actually looked at your sentence structure, you wouldn't have to go "But I meant X or Y" every other post


My problem is that everyone thinks there is only room for 1 MMO, Wow. Even though before WoW there were quite a few succesful MMO's already, WoW is not the first MMO, nor the first succesfull MMO. It is on the millions of players scale, but not by far the first good MMO

[KrazyK923]

It was still halfassedly done.

How was it half-assed? Because it was similar? Is that what half-assed means? It was also the first raid in the entire game. Try not to let your bias show so obviously.

[gobio]

I am not saying you are fat, but lose some weight.

READ WHAT I SAID, IDIOT, I did not say you are fat. JESUS, PEOPLE!

[Uncutshadow]

Everyone knows the one game that would bring wow crashing down would be a Poke' mon MMO ... until then everyone might as well give up.

Looks like "Game Freak" and "Nintendo" hold the key !!!

[Szemere]

Nothing really... I doubt it will do anything SWtOR/GW2 didn't, unless it's a genuinely incredible and innovative game. Only thing I have admittedly seen from this game is the recent cinematic for this game, and I can already say: Blizzard is already ahead of tESO in the cinematics department, MoP cinematic might have been boring as hell (IMO), but the SC2:HotS cinematic shows you the pure superiority of Blizzard's cinematics department.

[vindicatorx]

I don't think they will have to as long as they have over 5 million paying a month I personally don't think Blizzard will give a shit.

[Deleted]

Since you're all evidently inept, I'm not claiming TES: Online will be a WoW killer. I'm asking how WoW would have to evolve should it take off. Jesus, people.

I've been following TES: Online more and more here recently, and as excited as I am for it, I am concerned about WoW. I'm not saying that it's going to be a WoW killer, not by any stretch of the imagination, but if its model of gameplay takes off and becomes a popular thing (in regards to combat, questing, and the like), how would WoW have to adapt in order to remain king?

As far as I know freedom of speech still exists and regarding your comment on people's ineptitude all I can say look in the mirror,you are talking about another single player game being adapted to the online multiple player genre,a game that just barely started it's beta testing and already comparing to a long time game like WoW just to start a pointless discussion.You haven't even seen said game in it's final version,wait a bit more when you have something concrete about it then talk about the next "WoW killer" per say.

[McTurbo]

well if memory serves me right the only people calling it a wow killer was the people defending wow.. the ones talking about other games simply talked about its possibilities.. as for the actual term wow-killer.. i do believe it was used more by the defending side than it ever was the other.

[Beefhammer]

Slim to None. at most we will see lower populations for a month, and maybe blizz "borrowing" a feature or two.

Related: I really think they are making a mistake making TES into an MMO, as you can not make it the same experience. There are several reasons.
In Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim, YOU are the hero, not you and your friends.
Lots of TES fans like TES due to its dynamic world, From a technical standpoint I don't see how they can make it have the same dynamic world experience as Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim.
One thing people enjoy doing with TES is modding them and making new content, cant do that with an MMO.
In short, they might make a good MMO but it wont appeal to those who like the game play aspect of Morrowind Oblivion and Skyrim.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 08:21 PM ----------



It is? I was not aware that being forced into going F2P to keep a player base means its successful?
In my opinion successful means not going F2P to get people to play again...

The game is profitable. That means it is a success no matter how anyone feels about it. Personally I think its garbage. But all it needed was 500k, according to Bioware and it held around 2M for a few months and over 1M until a month or two before the F2P option. Since then they raked in cash from subscribers and F2P players. So yes it is a success. Not meeting the expectations set by the internet does not make a game a failure.

[Darkhallows]

GW2 and ToR didn't really have an impact on WoW. In fact, if anything, WoW has gained subs since their release (or at least, MoP's release) And TESO doesn't really have anything going for it aside from being related to games that are amazing single-player games that also have a tremendous appeal to modders. Can they release a modkit for TESO? Likely not.

I <3 Bethesda, but I'm still not sure what they think they're going to do in the MMO market. It could be good, but I'm just not sure. And as for the OP, I really don't think TESO will have any impact on WoW at all. It'd have to have a tremendous impact on the MMO Market first. Remember, GW2 was trying to be super innovative, and was successful in its own way, but hasn't hindered WoW at all.