The kindness of creeps

[Deleted]

On topic. I recently brought a good friend of mine to World of Warcraft, I gifted her the game and so far we play 95% of the time she's playing together as she's fairly new. I'm guilty of having gifted her some pets such as the Tol Barad Fox Kit because I had three of those (avid PvPer, lots of Tol Barad thingies and nothing to spend them on), does that mean I'm also a creeper now?

Not at all. You gave a good friend a gift. Completely normal and morally accepted in our society.

[Crawford]

I honestly have never attempted nor noted this phenomenon, so I don't know what you are talking about.

If we're talking about a 15 y.o. girl who receives a nice pet and says thank you, after which our predator asks her for naked pictures then it is him to blame, not her. If a woman gets raped in Indian society it is according to some conservatives the woman who is to blame but in Europe and America this notion is pathetic! If it is a mutual transaction (which is NOT a gift) then its both to blame unless we have minors involved.

And really, what is wrong with a woman using her fame to get further? When a man does it, its normal, but when Felicia Day does it you get jelly.

Well, when we're talking about a "nice pet," a Darkmoon Rabbit is 40-80,000g, a Darkmoon Eye is 25-35,000, a Bananas is 45-65,000 or a $60 loot card on e-bay, a Rocket Chicken is 80-120,000 or a $100-120 loot card, and a Spectral Cub is 160-240,000g or a $200 card on e-bay.

A number of rare TCG mounts can go for hundreds of thousands of gold or hundreds of dollars. I don't know if those are being widely gifted, because once they're learned, they can't be traded, unlike pets, so I haven't been talking to people who ride rare mounts.

I suppose guildies give each other gems or enchants or even cheaper cosmetic items all the time with no ulterior motives, and people contribute lots of stuff to the guild banks and get lots of stuff from their guild banks. Some people supply glyphs or banquets for their entire guild.

And I suppose people give away cheap pets as birthday gifts or holiday gifts or whatever without much thought. But nobody is buying loot cards on e-bay and giving them away like this without some sinister intent.

[Taurenburger]

Is it new? Male virgins drooling over girls/women and girls/women slutting around to get things they want.

[SherbertLand]

Not at all. You gave a good friend a gift. Completely normal and morally accepted in our society.

Just because someone doesn't follow your societies rules doesn't mean they're wrong or a creep. Get over yourself. Your morals are not absolute and I find it disgusting you even think everyone should have your morals. This is the 21st century.

[Deleted]

And as with gay clubs and bars...
It just is easier to hit on someone if there's a high chance they're not heterosexual and reject you because of that you know.

True, but if you're heterosexual and your friend is homosexual you can't go to the homosexual club because you are heterosexual. So that is where it divides society instead of harmonizing. Whereas macro-wise, society consists of both (and various other) sexual preferences. Instead, the message and culture to stimulate is that, just like in society, a homosexual and heterosexual can meet and should it comes to that, either one is free to say yes or no. So if this is the policy of the club the club is dogmatic in an ignorant way and apparently its more like a dating site than a place to meet people who have a certain sexuality in common.

[Flaks]

While I've DEFINITELY seen women on this game do more harm than good to games I've also seen plenty of women who were exceptional beyond any dude. I had a female guild leader who didn't give two shits about what people thought of her. She lead the guild with an iron fist and the guild went places. While there was drama from time to time, she wasn't the one involved, only the one to solve the problem. But I guess it's only one example.

[Deleted]

Just because someone doesn't follow your societies rules doesn't mean they're wrong or a creep. Get over yourself. Your morals are not absolute and I find it disgusting you even think everyone should have your morals. This is the 21st century.

You find it disgusting that society has the moral finding it completely normal that a friend gifts a friend something. OK. Well maybe you want to live in a society where nobody gifts anything to each other? Does such a society even exist?

[SirMeo]

True, but if you're heterosexual and your friend is homosexual you can't go to the homosexual club because you are heterosexual. So that is where it divides society instead of harmonizing. Whereas macro-wise, society consists of both (and various other) sexual preferences. Instead, the message and culture to stimulate is that, just like in society, a homosexual and heterosexual can meet and should it comes to that, either one is free to say yes or no. So if this is the policy of the club the club is dogmatic in an ignorant way and apparently its more like a dating site than a place to meet people who have a certain sexuality in common.

Well to be fair I've never seen or heard of a gay club that outright excludes heterosexuals from entering (how would they even check it?) and was kind of answering with that as the foundation to my answer. If there is some kind of "you must be this gay to enter" it's obviously riduculous, and likewise I was using "gay bar" as a synonym to "LGBT oriented bar" as it is usually used and not as a literal "gay or gtfo"


edit: moreover I don't really think the thing with bars and other actual physical places are that similiar to guilds and clubs who want to cater to specific sub-type of humans

Only problems I have with woman-only guilds and groups is if they are founded on "all men are stupid and disgusting" or somesuch, and when people who participate in such guilds start screaming misogyny if someone wants to do men-only clubs or something

(and my problem with men-only guilds and groups is that I've never seen a single one that wasn't built on "wimmenz can't play/cause always drama".

Don't give me examples I'm sure there are some, I've just not seen them but I don't really care that much)

[Prinny]

There was a fairly well known mage on my tiny little server who gave a 14 year old girl a tsunami deck in return for skype sex. He was like 22 or 23 at the time. *shudders*

[SherbertLand]

You find it disgusting that society has the moral finding it completely normal that a friend gifts a friend something. OK. Well maybe you want to live in a society where nobody gifts anything to each other? Does such a society even exist?

No, I live in that moral society. I find it disgusting that you think everyone should conform to yours. People are different, deal with it.

[Rivellana]

Second in-thread warning not to turn this into a gender-bashing thread or it gets closed.

[Deleted]

Well, I'm not a fan of gender-specific clubs or guilds but really, if they're done because you want some people who you know you will have some connection with (country, sex, sexual orientantion) and not because EW MEN ARE SMELLY AND GROSS MISANDRY4LYEF I see no real problem

And as with gay clubs and bars...
It just is easier to hit on someone if there's a high chance they're not heterosexual and reject you because of that you know.

The problem is, it really doesn't matter if you exclude someone for outer circumstances they can't anything for. It doesn't matter which gender, skin color or sexual orientation they have. If you exclude them for that and ban them from attending certain things you're doing the exact same thing you're protesting against. There are a rare few, a very, very, very rare few things where this obviously doesn't hold true as for example a sauna as some people don't feel comfortable being seen by the other gender naked. But in the vast majority of cases the reason used to exclude someone really doesn't matter.

Second in-thread warning not to turn this into a gender-bashing thread or it gets closed.

My post really isn't meant to turn it into that direction. In fact I'm kind of trying to turn it away from that. Oh well!

[WskyDK]

Back when EQ2 launched (MMOs weren't popular at the time) I rolled a female character. Almost instantly I was met with a deluge of people offering to help out with quests/cash, and having never played a similar game I thought this was standard behavior. It was only after talking with guildies did I find out it was VERY abnormal. Being the person I am, I immediately began to capitalize on this. I never acted overtly sexual or anything, but I never attempted to correct them in their assumptions. (I was booted from guild right after it came to light that I was doing this with my guild tag plainly visible)

I sorta miss those days :-\

[Crawford]

While I've DEFINITELY seen women on this game do more harm than good to games I've also seen plenty of women who were exceptional beyond any dude. I had a female guild leader who didn't give two shits about what people thought of her. She lead the guild with an iron fist and the guild went places. While there was drama from time to time, she wasn't the one involved, only the one to solve the problem. But I guess it's only one example.

Kicking people from a raid group for failure to perform always causes drama, unless the person losing their slot has almost no connection to anyone else in the guild. Trying to kick the tank's girlfriend out of the raid will probably cause similar fallout to trying to kick the tank's brother or IRL friend.

Otherwise, if kicking a girl who stands in fire out of your raid causes some guys to ragequit, you're better off without people who are not focused on progression.

Now, if you have a GM who wants to carry girls who can't play in your raid, or who gives preferential loot treatment to some chick he's in a private vent channel with all the time, that's a crappy GM, and the drama and guild problems are his fault.

[Cybran]

I honestly have never attempted nor noted this phenomenon, so I don't know what you are talking about.

If we're talking about a 15 y.o. girl who receives a nice pet and says thank you, after which our predator asks her for naked pictures then it is him to blame, not her. If a woman gets raped in Indian society it is according to some conservatives the woman who is to blame but in Europe and America this notion is pathetic! If it is a mutual transaction (which is NOT a gift) then its both to blame unless we have minors involved.

And really, what is wrong with a woman using her fame to get further? When a man does it, its normal, but when Felicia Day does it you get jelly.

Do you live in the same planet as the rest of us?

I am talking about the many 20+ year old players that like to talk about breasts, sex and other stuff on vent. Make "cute" jokes and try to overcompensate for their mistakes while raiding.

Felicia Day is a terrible example. The only reason anyone knows she exists is because of her "OMG I am such a gamer nerd" campaign. She ruined Dragon Age for me with her shitty DLC and Machinima crap.

[starlord]

hm cant say ive ever encountered this in my 6 years of playing. although i offer friends extra pets and stuff i have lying around pretty often. just want to get rid of them.

[DEATHETERNAL]

There will always be those who have who will be willing to give of what they have to those who don't have in exchange for what they shouldn't have from those who doesn't have.

Additionally there will always be those who have who will be willing to give of what they have to those who don't have solely for the imaginary possibility or fantasy idea that they might receive what they shouldn't have from those who doesn't have as gratitude.

And there will always be those who don’t have that are willing to go along with either case.

This is nothing new.

[Crawford]

Do you live in the same planet as the rest of us?

I am talking about the many 20+ year old players that like to talk about breasts, sex and other stuff on vent. Make "cute" jokes and try to overcompensate for their mistakes while raiding.

Felicia Day is a terrible example. The only reason anyone knows she exists is because of her "OMG I am such a gamer nerd". She ruined Dragon Age for me with her shitty DLC and Machinima crap.

Bioware ruined Dragon Age.

[Beebeey]

Every expansion that I have played WoW, I hear of these "women" who obtain free carries, gold, pets, vanity items, etc..
Please let me know when you find them, because I have yet to find any women admit to such things.

I have gifted items to people who happen to be friends a time or two.
I have given gold to people who can't afford repairs: They were not female.

I have yet to meet one of these awesome females that have such persuasive power.
Where are they?

If you don't appreciate these individuals, why don't you just NOT support them?
Very simple. Problem solved.

------------

As far as sexual predators are concerned:

A) They frequent places younger people hang out (MMO's for example)
B) A well-known tactic of sexual predators happens to be winning over trust with GIFTS (can be toys, money, etc..not exclusive to WoW)
C) Such predators will go after victims that have some sort of emotional turbulence

[Prinny]

Every expansion that I have played WoW, I hear of these "women" who obtain free carries, gold, pets, vanity items, etc..
Please let me know when you find them, because I have yet to find any women admit to such things.

Well, in the case of the aforementioned 14 year old once the scandal broke out she denied it--but i don't really blame her. Once I transferred off of that server I went to one of the biggest servers and my GM was a woman who was using fake pictures to pretend to be another woman and seduced a multi-glad feral into carrying her in arena. He also bought her a lot of expensive items to transmog. This case is a little different since it was initiated by the woman, but these things DEFINITELY happen.

It makes sense to me that those who receive gifts/carries/gold/etc in this way wouldn't want to admit to these things since they might reflect negatively on their character.