Anyone else hate Soul Reaper?

[Tehterokkar]

Can't we consolidated all the SR hate into one thread?

You all sound like old people "CHANGE IS SCARY I DON'T LIKE CHANGE"

The only set of people that have a legitimate gripe are those with pvp complaints. Those are legitimate. Everyone else, it's old we get it you aren't that good at your dk and a floating rune makes you a sad panda.

It's on our 4 set next tier so quit complaining and figure out how to use SR, cause I'm pretty sure it's not going anywhere

Change isn't scary, however Blizzard presented the new Execute in a very bad way, No other class(apart from Warriors, but still, it's way easier) has to spend their resources to use an execute ability that alternates the play style a lot for the last %'s.

Monk: No execute¨
Paladin: Hammer of Wrath, no HP cost
Warlock: Doomguard, instant cast with long duration, Drain Soul eases the rotation for Affliction, giving you way more resources
Mage: No execute
Hunter: Kill Shot, no Focus cost
Rogue: For assasination; simply switching from Mutilate spam to Dispatch spam
Priest: Shadow Word: Death, no Shadow orb cost, instead, generates 1.
Shaman: No Execute
Warrior: Execute replaces everything except for Colossus Smash and Bloodthirst(If sufficient rage).
Druid: For Feral, Ferocious Bite refreshes Rip, which is their main Bleed at Execute range.

[Deleted]

Make it a normal execute, no debuff just a single hit, 12 seconds CD.

But hey DKs are fine right? We see them in the top of the DPS meters, that SURELY means we have no utility, survivability and QoL issues

[JGWentworth]

Change isn't scary, however Blizzard presented the new Execute in a very bad way, No other class(apart from Warriors, but still, it's way easier) has to spend their resources to use an execute ability that alternates the play style a lot for the last %'s.

Monk: No execute¨
Paladin: Hammer of Wrath, no HP cost
Warlock: Doomguard, instant cast with long duration, Drain Soul eases the rotation for Affliction, giving you way more resources
Mage: No execute
Hunter: Kill Shot, no Focus cost
Rogue: For assasination; simply switching from Mutilate spam to Dispatch spam
Priest: Shadow Word: Death, no Shadow orb cost, instead, generates 1.
Shaman: No Execute
Warrior: Execute replaces everything except for Colossus Smash and Bloodthirst(If sufficient rage).
Druid: For Feral, Ferocious Bite refreshes Rip, which is their main Bleed at Execute range.

And how many of those executes can you start before the execute phase and still be effective?
1/4 specs if affected by this and it is seriously a minor minor inconvenience. How long are you really sitting with nothing to push? 1, 2 seconds? maybe 3? If it's that much of an issue to you why don't you consider DW? It's comparable dps and you won't have that issue.

Our class plays differently than others that's what different classes are supposed to do. You want a nice easy mindless execute you could always swap to a different class. I feel that the argument of "Theirs is different that makes our suck" is a poor one to stand on. Hate an ability because it brings nothing to the table, don't hate an ability because you want to hit all your buttons when you want at any time.

[Raugnaut]

In 2s, vs double dps, its pretty good for securing a kill as there is little chance for 2 dps to get back above 35% health.

With a healer in the rotation, it requires quite a bit of planning.

Otherwise, this is a high-skill ability to get the maximum usage out of it-knowing when to dump the empty unholy runes into DnD/PS, how to game the runes, how to use it so it goes off as soon as the mob hits 35%, ect.

As an execute, its damage is actually quite high, it hits slightyl harder then Execute when you combine the melee attack with the damage proc.

Thus, when you are sub 35%, SR on CD>everything else. For that empty UH rune, you can either A) attempt to use RE to get a DR/FR up, so you can Obliterate (Since the unholy run should always be the one thats not cooling down, you should always get a rune that allows Obliterate usage), or B) use the UH rune on either DnD or Plague Strike as soon as you have a free global. Remember that the damage of SR+PS/DnD>>Obliterate damage.

[Totle]

WTB glyph to change it's cost to 60 RP, please.

Or alternatively, let it proc of RIME instead of KM for our 4 spec.

[Raugnaut]

Change isn't scary, however Blizzard presented the new Execute in a very bad way, No other class(apart from Warriors, but still, it's way easier) has to spend their resources to use an execute ability that alternates the play style a lot for the last %'s.

Monk: No execute¨
Paladin: Hammer of Wrath, no HP cost
Warlock: Doomguard, instant cast with long duration, Drain Soul eases the rotation for Affliction, giving you way more resources
Mage: No execute
Hunter: Kill Shot, no Focus cost
Rogue: For assasination; simply switching from Mutilate spam to Dispatch spam
Priest: Shadow Word: Death, no Shadow orb cost, instead, generates 1.
Shaman: No Execute
Warrior: Execute replaces everything except for Colossus Smash and Bloodthirst(If sufficient rage).
Druid: For Feral, Ferocious Bite refreshes Rip, which is their main Bleed at Execute range.

Let us consider the damage for each one, though.

Druid- FB is actually a very hard hitting. For druids, FB hits harder then Shred, but less then Rake/Rip. However, since it refreshes Rip, its essentially the damage of FB+Rip per usage of FB. A good execute that significantl smooths out the rotation on single target bosses, but doesn't have much umph when the target is, say, an add that needs to die ASAP, whereas our execute is good for boss and adds. Can only be used sub-25% health.

Paladin- a 6 second CD ability (like ours), generates 1 HP, while its the paladins second hardest hitter, its damage is paltry compared to all other executes, hitting for only +mastery damage over Exorcism. It also nearly-GCD locks the paladins during execute. However, it does hit for quite a bit compared to other moves, making it the number 1 priority for HP generation. Can only be used sub 20% health, SR hits significantly harder then this. Useful on both adds and boss.

Warlock- Doomguard is a unique execute- its a hard hitting CD that warlocks use that deals extra damage when sub 25%. I believe it has a 5 min CD? On shorter fights, warlocks can only use it once, and will generally use it with Bloodlust. On longer fights, where you can use it twice, warlocks can use it sub 20%, giving them extra dps. However, there is still more- All 3 warlocks have a unique execute for each spec. Affliction Warlocks swap Drain Soul for Malefic Grasp sub 20% health, which deals higher damage per tick then Malefic Grasp, AND generates thier resource, which allows them to essentially have 100% uptime on a 25% extra damage buff. If the target dies while Drain Soul is up, they get complete restoration to thier resource.
Destro Warlocks swap their iconic spell, Chaos Bolt, with Shadowburn, an instant cast spell that does more damage, and has 2 secondary effects- itll either restore 15% of mana for the warlock (Destro Warlocks burn through mana, and this allows them to stay pretty much at full mana during executes), or, if the target dies, grants 1 Burning Ember (Thus allowing them to immediately cast Chaos Bolt on a new target). Usable sub-20%
Demo Locks have Decimation- whenever they hit a target with Soul Fire (A very hard hitting move, but has a very long cast time, and isn't worth using outside of a specific haste buff that affects only it) or Shadow Bolt, they are granted a 50% haste buff to Soul Fire, that also reduces the resource cost of it by 50%, thus causing them to replace Shadow Bolt/Touch of Chaos with Soul Fire sub 25%. It doesn't have any secondary effect, with the exception that it has a 100% crit rate, and its damage is increased by crit rating.

Warriors Execute was already mentioned- for Fury, it replaces all other abilities that cost rage in the rotation. You don't do anything but spam Execute, no heroic strike, wild strike, and I don't think you use Raging Blow either. For arms, it replaces Slam, and causes HS to only be used at 4 stacks of TFB, rather then the previous 1 stack. (There will be a few changes next patch, itll replace both Slam and HS for arms, wheres Fury uses Wild Strike when they have a proc). Can only be used sub 20%.

Hunter execute, its a new button that rises to the top of priority. Kill Shot, 10 second cooldown, and the cooldown is instantly reset every time you use it with a 6 second CD. The best way to get the max dps usage out of this is to use it back-to-back. Hits fairly hard, only usable sub-20%.

Shadow Priest execute is nearly identical to the hunter execute, except it generates 1 Shadow Orb every 10 seconds, increasing the usage of Devouring Plague sub-20%. It's the second hardest hitter, Mind Blast will do more damage per use, but its instant, usable twice in a row, and replaces Mind Flay in the rotation. In addition, Shadow Priests can talent for a buff increases damage by 15% whenever then heal or damage a target under 20% health- a very good shadow priest can have extremely high uptime on this buff on certain fights.

Rogue, only 1 of the 3 specs has an execute in the form of Dispatch. Dispatch replaces Mutilate in the rotation. It hits slightly harder then Mutilate (400% main hand weapon damage+ some base, compared to 200% main/off hand weapon damage + some base. Since off hand weapons have thier damage reduced by 50%, assuming main/off hand is the same base damage, Mutilate deals 300% main hand damage, whereas Dispatch deals 400% weapon damage, or about 33% more damage). It has a lower energy cost compared to Mutilate (30 for Dispatch compared to 55 for mutilate). However, the generation of combo points will be slightly slower, as Dispatch generates about 9% less combo points over time compared to mutilate, due to the higher energy per combo point cost. In addition, poisons are triggered less as Dispatch does not hit with the off-hand (9% less rate, same as Mutilate). Thus, Assassin rogues do not see as high a damage gain compared to other classes' execute effect. Akin to Soul Reaper, it is usable on targets sub-35% health.

Monks have a very unique execute- depending on the amount of health the target has, it can be used either at 100%, or .001% health. Touch of Death is usable on targets that have less HP then the Monk. Thus, for situations with Adds, Touch of Death on 10 man can easily one shot the adds (On elegon's draw power phase, a monk can handily take care of 1 spark every 1 min 30 seconds). It has a 3 chi cost, 90 second cooldown, but its the hardest hitting execute in the game, depending. In PvP, it pretty much kills any opponent thats under 10% health, as well as possibly killing other targets that attempt to redirect the damage the target takes to themselves (Intervene, Hand of Sacrifice, ect)


Compared to all the executes listed, the DK execute hits harder per use then everything except possibly Execute. For Blood/Unholy DKs, its also extremely easy to use, given that replaces either Blood Strike for blood dks, or Scourge Strike for unholy DKs. Its cooldown is similar to Paladins, 6 second cooldown. The window in which it can damage a target is very high- 35%, generally 10-15% hp higher then every single other execute except for Dispatch (And it has a significantly greater damage affect then Dispatch). Finally, like the Warlocks, it has a decent secondary effect of increasing rune generation speed by 50% for 5 seconds, or, for everything but Blood, granting an entire set of runes. However, for Frost DKs, it increases the complexity of the rotation, causing you to either rely on RNG for a frost/death rune RE proc, OR causing you to spend a global on either PS or DnD to use the excess unholy rune.

[Waalt]

<Nicely paragraphed wall of text>

OOOOOOOOOOOOVERKILL and OT. It's about the DK Execute :P

Honestly as someone said it's pretty straightforward (even for 2h frost). Fixing your Obliterate downtime after SR isn't rocket surgery.

For me the biggest problem is actually remembering to use Soul Reaper lol

[kaelleria]

SR can be pretty annoying at the very end of fights. You need to gauge if the boss will die in under 5 seconds or not and sometimes that can be a challenge. Other than that it's design is fine.

[Nillo]

The only thing that really irritates me about SR is that it has a CD on top of the usualy rune cd, which makes it feel kind of odd for frost.
No issues with it as blood though - just need to stop using HS sub 35%

[Dald]

It should be free. That would fix everything. It has a CD and the initial damage is low enough to probably not use it on CD before 35%. Maybe.

[JGWentworth]

It should be free. That would fix everything. It has a CD and the initial damage is low enough to probably not use it on CD before 35%. Maybe.

That would be quite the shit storm if we had a free execute.

It's in a really good spot, it's mildly inconvenient for one spec, and as someone pointed out earlier SR + DND/PS is more damage than an Obliterate.

There isn't anything really constructive going on in this thread, should just be locked.

[Maelstrom51]

Its fine as Blood and Unholy. Pretty annoying it takes 5 seconds to work, though.

[JGWentworth]

Its fine as Blood and Unholy. Pretty annoying it takes 5 seconds to work, though.

But it matches the CD and you can start it before 35%

[Slak]

As a blood tank in raids, i like having an execute now that I remember to use it. Helped push Sha of fear when we were hitting enrage, both on pandas on platform and the boss itself.

For frost is feels clunky, but i don't play it enough to say, as blood yay for an execute.

[Bowjobs]

I only really play as blood but yeah 9 times out of 10 i don't even use it at all. Either w/e i put it on dies before it goes off or i would rather use those runes for other things.
I feel it should be more like kill shot as an execute ability that procs and has a cd and if it does have a resource cost it should be runic power not runes that end up leaving others unusable.

[Omertocracy]

Or alternatively, let it proc of RIME instead of KM for our 4 spec.

If it procced off of Rime, they would also have to make it proc off of Sudden Doom and Crimson Scourge.

For me the biggest problem is actually remembering to use Soul Reaper lol

It was for me, too. Until I made a Weakaura that puts a giant-ass Soul Reaper icon near the middle of my screen if it is off cooldown and the target is at or below 37% (not 35 because a raid boss will usually lose 2% during rune recharge and its tick timer).

SR can be pretty annoying at the very end of fights. You need to gauge if the boss will die in under 5 seconds or not and sometimes that can be a challenge. Other than that it's design is fine.

If it is gonna die in those 5 seconds, the wasted damage only matters if you were padding your epeen.

OT:
BT Frost has less of an issue with this than RE Frost, or so I have heard. Don't know from personal experience because I MS Blood and play DW Frost like a monkey flailing at the keyboard.

[Raugnaut]

OOOOOOOOOOOOVERKILL and OT. It's about the DK Execute :P

Honestly as someone said it's pretty straightforward (even for 2h frost). Fixing your Obliterate downtime after SR isn't rocket surgery.

For me the biggest problem is actually remembering to use Soul Reaper lol

Its fairly on topic. Someone was comparing the DK execute effect to other execute, but just listing the pros of every execute compared to the cons of the DK execute, or a biased comparision. I simply put out a more complete list, listing every single execute. At the end, i also posted my thoughs on the DK execute. For Blood/Unholy, the DK execute is in a good place, simple to use. For Frost, it adds extra complicity to the rotation, but once you figure out how to deal with it (RE gaming OR using the UH rune on PS/DnD), it puts the FR/UH rune usage of SR+something else significantly above the FR/UH usage of Obliterate, meaning that its fine. (RE gaming, while reliant on RNG, will yield more damage then just using the UH rune on something to complete the FR/UH rune set. Its either more RNG to the rotation for potential more damage, or getting rid of the RNG for more damage then just Obliterate, but less for RE gaming)

[Buxton McGraff]

My buddy thinks it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. He loves throwing it on somebody. Walking away, and watching them blow up.

[Arkthugal]

If you're having problems with Soul Reaper going off before the mob dies, throw it on them earlier. Line it up properly and your killing speed goes way the hell up.

Besides, with 4p tier 15 it'll be even more awesome. Nearly half the fight with an execute? Yes please.

[Raugnaut]

It should be free. That would fix everything. It has a CD and the initial damage is low enough to probably not use it on CD before 35%. Maybe.

If its free, you would use it every single time you had an empty GCD. The cost for it is fine for its damage.

There are 2 big complaints about SR at- how easy it is to counter in PvP compared to other executes, and the complexity it brings to Frost (mostly 2 handed).

For PvP, this IS a very hard hitting execute usable at 35%, compared to all other executes being usable at 20%. Taking the amount of healing into account with 1 healer, and no dps with healing capabilities, assuming the healer is being pressured with CCs/Interupts, Soul Reaper should generally be used around 20% health- thus, forcing the healer to either A) dispel Soul Reaper, and risk the person dieing in a global, B) casting a big heal, assuming thier big-instant cast is on CD, opening them up to interupts, C) using a cooldown to counter Soul Reaper, thus cutting them off from having it later on. This is, of course, assuming proper NS usage to prevent the instant casts from raising them above 35%. Of course, it doesn't have the oomph that Execute has, but all the same, it can help to line up a kill.

For PvE, do you have free globals? If yes, use the UH rune on PS, or DnD. this will cause MORE damage with the Frost+Unholy rune combo then Obliterate ever could. If no, then its not a problem given that you will ALWAYS have something else to push. Either way, its always a dps gain.