Do people on constant welfare/benefits contribute to society ?

[Redblade]

In my response which you quoted I said that having a proportion of unemployed is natural and healthy. No one is talking about full employment all the time as that is unreasonable. However having the same group of people unemployed and never working is not a natural economic outcome unless there is an incentive to simply not work.

Why do you care if it's the same 1 million people or different 1 million every month?

If you where to do a study on the "chronically unemployed" I think you would find similar results as they have done with the homeless, it's in the long run cheaper to just pay the cost of them being in the state they are over trying to force them in to something they are not through costly programs and such.

Fixing unemployment is easy, fixing the consequences of that fix is much trickier though.

[Roose]

Trickle down does not work. Flowing up does. All of that money in welfare eventually gets spent within the local community and does stimulate the economy.

How could people having money to buy shit not be good for the economy? Without them our economy fails.

Stop building bombs and fighter jets and start investing in the people.

[Ebb]

If we took a small percent of the tax returns from major corporations utilizing loopholes to prevent tax payments we could damn near curb the defecit. But no, no, you're right, we want our votes in the hands of people who care more about personal wealth than the state of this country, end /saracasm. I think the wealthy have enough power. Being poor doesn't make you any less American, it fact in makes you part of the majority.

Do yourself a favor and lookup plutocracy, and read about how much of a joke it is in the eyes of anyone with legitimate political knowledge, because that's where this line of reasoning leads. You want to live in a world of corporate monopolies with a small percent living a glamorous lifestyle, and the poor are oppressed and forgotten? That's not the country I want to live in, but keep advocating this type of shit and one day we might make it there. There's a reason everyone was given the right to vote in the country, even though the constitution was written by a bunch of rich white men, because even they knew concentrating too much power in one sect is not a safe way to run a society.

Read about wealth inequity as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_..._United_States. Look at that graph and tell me how it makes sense to pull from that tiny sliver (bottom 40% of the population) to try and pay off our defecit, or as you stated for "research and technology". They don't have the money to give up. There's no room to take anything. We could take the sum of the entire bottom 40% of the populations wealth away from the top 1% and it wouldn't even be noticeable. The logic that taking more money from that tiny sliver can solve all our problems just displays supreme ignorance of the actual facts and numbers and dependency on the mainstream media, who....o my....happen to be large corporations, who of course want you put more power in them and less in the poor so they can keep their tax breaks and huge profits. The media corporations belong in the 1%, and despite how much I wish they honored their philosophical duty of providing just the facts, that is not their primary motivation; they are corporations motivated by profit, and in the end profit is what matters most to them, it's how they stay in business so of course they're going to sway opinion away from taxing the 1%, and unfortunately put in the helpless 40% majority controlling only .4% of the wealth. And if you're in that 40% of America and you think you're making a contribution significantly more than someone one welfare, look at that graph and think again. You may be doing a liiiiiitttlllee more, but you're impact is literally still almost nothing compared to the 1% that really run America, who I really don't think need more power, as they have proved it is used almost entirely for personal gain.

Welcome to capatalism, where money isnt everything....its the only thing!

[holyunholy]

The lower and middle classes contribute more. And this is just quintiles, if we merely isolated the super rich (2%) the difference would be even more pronounced. This "garbage" is called cold hard fact buddy.

If by contribute you mean spending money handed out to them in the first place, then you may be right. However as a resource that money could be better allocated. Especially, when people have lived their whole lives off the welfare system. I still have to see the multiplier effect of their spending in the economy.

[Deleted]

I'd guess a lot of people have jobs because of them.

[Ebb]

What would you say to the people living in 3rd generation of welfare? How can you make the claim that these families are contriubting as a whole? How can you even believe that this system of entitlment works?

[Rukentuts]

If by contribute you mean spending money handed out to them in the first place, then you may be right. However as a resource that money could be better allocated. Especially, when people have lived their whole lives off the welfare system. I still have to see the multiplier effect of their spending in the economy.

Then you're intentionally ignoring facts in favor of political dogma. Not much can be done to change that.

[Cirque]

People like OP know nothing of welfare. People won't tell you why they're on welfare, if he's betting on horses, have you considered that he has severe issues, physical or psychological, what do you know?

I'm on welfare, for now. I also have medical help, and hopefully, because I haven't forced anything at the hight of my issues, I will be able to not only have finished a studies but also get a proper job soon.

And when you break down in whatever way, someday, and I hope you don't but if you do, I'll be glad to help pay for your welfare, too. It's called social security for a reason, not just ME ME ME ME but actually caring for each other.

That said, if you're linking income to voting rights... Well, let's get back to the earlier voting days where only the rich could vote, shall we? They had the same argument as you back there. A democracy allows everyone to vote, the stupid, the poor, the incapable just as much.

[Crashdummy]

Yes, they contribute, but its irrelevant. Who are you to decide who votes and who doesnt?

Of course they should vote, they are the weakest citizens and therefore the ones that need more help, if anything they should have more right to vote than someone like Rockefeller...

Otherwise you have rich people being the only ones that can elect goverments, and they willelect goverments that favor them in getting even richier at the expense of the ones that didnt have the luck to born in a rich family.

[vindicatorx]

Do they contribute no, they do not. They also don't usually vote either.

[Lochton]

People like OP know nothing of welfare. People won't tell you why they're on welfare, if he's betting on horses, have you considered that he has severe issues, physical or psychological, what do you know?

I'm on welfare, for now. I also have medical help, and hopefully, because I haven't forced anything at the hight of my issues, I will be able to not only have finished a studies but also get a proper job soon.

And when you break down in whatever way, someday, and I hope you don't but if you do, I'll be glad to help pay for your welfare, too. It's called social security for a reason, not just ME ME ME ME but actually caring for each other.

That said, if you're linking income to voting rights... Well, let's get back to the earlier voting days where only the rich could vote, shall we? They had the same argument as you back there. A democracy allows everyone to vote, the stupid, the poor, the incapable just as much.

That is actually well explained. I must say, when I saw the post I felt like I wanted to comment. Then I saw the attitude of the OP towards it, and I was getting furious. But you made the words appear better.

[Ebb]

People like OP know nothing of welfare. People won't tell you why they're on welfare, if he's betting on horses, have you considered that he has severe issues, physical or psychological, what do you know?

I'm on welfare, for now. I also have medical help, and hopefully, because I haven't forced anything at the hight of my issues, I will be able to not only have finished a studies but also get a proper job soon.

And when you break down in whatever way, someday, and I hope you don't but if you do, I'll be glad to help pay for your welfare, too. It's called social security for a reason, not just ME ME ME ME but actually caring for each other.

That said, if you're linking income to voting rights... Well, let's get back to the earlier voting days where only the rich could vote, shall we? They had the same argument as you back there. A democracy allows everyone to vote, the stupid, the poor, the incapable just as much.

This is exactly why people lose their minds. The very concept you believe someone on welfare is spending all their allowance on the horses is a potential "mental" problem only reinforces his statement. If we allow mental patients to vote whats stoping them from running for government?

I cant wait until we make the next craigslist killer president.

[pucGG]

Voted no, but they should be allowed to vote. The reason I voted this is because they don't benefit society, this much is indisbutable (which is why I'm shocked that majority voted yes)
Anyway, if they weren't allowed to vote, and only people with jobs would vote, the unemployed people would never get a job, and it would ruin the life of people who really depend on wellfare. Also wellfare would be discontinued, since people who work don't like it...

[Incredibale]

The lower and middle classes contribute more. And this is just quintiles, if we merely isolated the super rich (2%) the difference would be even more pronounced. This "garbage" is called cold hard fact buddy.

If you're going to post a graph post some data and an explanation with it for context. And do you really think this shows lower income contributes more (the graph doesn't suggest it) when the wealthy pay more in taxes, as well as create wealth and jobs, which the poor generally don't do?

Voted no, but they should be allowed to vote. The reason I voted this is because they don't benefit society, this much is indisbutable (which is why I'm shocked that majority voted yes)
Anyway, if they weren't allowed to vote, and only people with jobs would vote, the unemployed people would never get a job, and it would ruin the life of people who really depend on welfare. Also welfare would be discontinued, since people who work don't like it...

Restricting voting rights based on welfare participation or land ownership (which comes up every now and then) is a bad idea. Government and the elite will do everything they can to get people in positions where they can't vote. That being said, our society cannot last if people are going to vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.

[holyunholy]

What would you say to the people living in 3rd generation of welfare? How can you make the claim that these families are contriubting as a whole? How can you even believe that this system of entitlment works?

It doesn't. However ideology blinds people to facts. Right now whatever social safety nets we have is stretched to the limit because of the benefits lifestyle. As a result people who need temporary help get less than people who are constantly on benefits.

[Deleted]

The wealthy especially in the US are mostly self made and are wealthy because of their entrepreneurial spirit, innovation

I'll settle with a snort of disdain; for the most part a lot of them are self-made; but I bet you that the majority of these "Self-made men" came from a relatively well-off family and probably had family connections to help. Not all of them mind, but certainly a fair chunk of them.

A fair number of them though are just coasting on their families' fortunes however. Donald fucking Trump for example.

On topic however "Yes and they should be allowed to vote".

[Rukentuts]

If you're going to post a graph post some data and an explanation with it for context. And do you really think this shows lower income contributes more (the graph doesn't suggest it) when the wealthy pay more in taxes, as well as create wealth and jobs, which the poor generally don't do?

You really don't know much about the economy, do you? The top few % don't "create jobs", demand is what creates jobs. In addition small business owners (hardly the 2%) are the entrepreneurial spirit of this country.

If you cannot extrapolate from that graph that the lower and middle classes do contribute more than the top 2% (hint, that graph is in quintiles) then there really is no point in attempting to engage you in an intellectually coherent conversation.

[Wells]

when the wealthy pay more in taxes, as well as create wealth and jobs, which the poor generally don't do?

The rich don't create wealth and jobs. The economy does.

[muto]

Freeloaders do not contribute to the progression of society at all. If we would take even 1% of the money spent on these people the sheer amount of research and technology that would result would be immense. Instead, we send our money to them domestically or over to Africa, etc. "You had 14 kids with 10 of them contracting HIV from you in your shack outside of Kenya? Take some of our money and keep it up, you are helping the gene pool greatly!"

Yep. 10% to 15% of Sub Saharan Africa as a whole has AIDS, and it's as high as 20% in some countries.

[Jakexe]

Voted no, but they should be allowed to vote. The reason I voted this is because they don't benefit society, this much is indisbutable (which is why I'm shocked that majority voted yes)
Anyway, if they weren't allowed to vote, and only people with jobs would vote, the unemployed people would never get a job, and it would ruin the life of people who really depend on wellfare. Also wellfare would be discontinued, since people who work don't like it...

Cheers, I guess all that volunteer work I do at the animal shelter and children's ward doesn't mean shit while I wait on a transplant list barely living on disability welfare. I'll stop it now and become the lazy welfare stereotype you THINK is the norm.