It's not Nostalgia.

[Zaqwert]

I don't think anyone would argue WoW has changed significantly over the years.

Some people simply don't like the changes.

At some point it can be argued the game has changed so much it's not even the same genre anymore.

I mean if the next expansion turned WoW into a first person shooter would it be WoW anymore? I mean it'd say WoW on the box after all, but it wouldn't be WoW IMO.

[Shadee]

The OP of this thread deserves a gold medal. People that actually played during vanilla knows how much better the game was. The game now is just so fisher price, even worse than ever with mope.

[Tomana]

Yes, I was at school from 7-230. Then I had Wrestling practice until 5. Then on some days a job, on some days friends, on some days engineering mandatory events. Some days I took my girlfriend to work. Weekends I had boy scout stuff, or wrestling if it was wrestling season. And I got good grades.

And with all that, how was your weekly WoW playtime?

No, its because my leveling experience is changed because of the change ... for the sake of convenience. Leveling was always simple. It was just a little more complex than it is now. There weren;t flight paths everywhere, and elite mobs and group quests actually existed if you wanted to do them.

If you ask me, the problem was not the absence of flight paths and the presence of group quests.
It is just that the leveling flow didn't make any sense at all and you had to rely on a leveling guide to be more or less quick. (All hail Jame's horde leveling guide ) Sure, as a first experience it was great, but after a couple of days, not so much. I won't even mention the fact that the quests were not numerous enough and you had to put in copious grinding sessions in between (hi to the harpies in Thousand needles, trolls in Hinterlands, BEs in Azhara and skeletons in western plaguelands, I don't miss you).
Also, for new players, some mobs were way too hard right from the start on, especially given the fact that most classes/specs were broken.

Why don't we want to deter people that can't make it out of mulgore? If they aren;t having fun, they aren't suited to MMO-RPGS.

And who on Earth are you to decide who is suited to what? And frankly, there is no fun in dying repeatedly to lvl 4 mobs in the starting zone.
I'll tell you even more: back in my raiding guilds, most players hated leveling with a passion. They wanted to raid. Should they be removed from MMORPGs too, by that logic?

If they don't/can't get out, why should we cater to them? Why should we take away from all the people that did already enjoy that? Should every game sell out to go where the money goes?

Because people who did already enjoy that were a tiny minority, and you don't make decisions based on an opinion of a minority. That is even before financial considerations.

So again, why does taking out elite mobs and quests make a good game? Why does having 3 fps in small flat westfall make a better game?

Because there was nothing fun into hoofing your way through a zone?
As for elite mobs, there is nothing wrong with having them, but having elite zones (e.g. the troll city in Hinterlands) was frustrating when you couldn't find a group (which on my realm was 95% of the time).

[Arkrend]

I'm content with the changes.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

And with all that, how was your weekly WoW playtime?


If you ask me, the problem was not the absence of flight paths and the presence of group quests.
It is just that the leveling flow didn't make any sense at all and you had to rely on a leveling guide to be more or less quick. (All hail Jame's horde leveling guide ) Sure, as a first experience it was great, but after a couple of days, not so much. I won't even mention the fact that the quests were not numerous enough and you had to put in copious grinding sessions in between (hi to the harpies in Thousand needles, trolls in Hinterlands, BEs in Azhara and skeletons in western plaguelands, I don't miss you).
Also, for new players, some mobs were way too hard right from the start on, especially given the fact that most classes/specs were broken.


And who on Earth are you to decide who is suited to what? And frankly, there is no fun in dying repeatedly to lvl 4 mobs in the starting zone.
I'll tell you even more: back in my raiding guilds, most players hated leveling with a passion. They wanted to raid. Should they be removed from MMORPGs too, by that logic?


Because people who did already enjoy that were a tiny minority, and you don't make decisions based on an opinion of a minority. That is even before financial considerations.



Because there was nothing fun into hoofing your way through a zone?
As for elite mobs, there is nothing wrong with having them, but having elite zones (e.g. the troll city in Hinterlands) was frustrating when you couldn't find a group (which on my realm was 95% of the time).

So why not just skip Zul'Athor or whatever it was called? You could easily skip it if you wanted. So your minor annoyance took that away from me? That made a better game?

So walking isn't "fun" but riding a gryphon for 5 seconds is fun? That decision made wow a better game?

My play time was whatever was left. If I had a wrestling tournament on saturday, and we had a raid scheduled, I didn't sign up. If I were available, I signed up.

So the better alternative to dying a few times in mulgore, (probably if you pulled too many) is just making it to where doing 2 quests get you to level 5? That is better than anything else?

Again, I haven't mentioned anything about the class design being better in Vanilla. They nerfed leveling when Cata came out. In wrath, were classes broken? Not really no. Quests were numerous enough if you looked for them. Vanilla did a bad job at specifically telling you where to go after you finish a zone, but asking often helped. 9OH NO! SOCIAL INTERACTIONS! =p)

So really, why is it necessary to have 3 FPS in westfall. I don't feel that you have sufficiently answered. Why was this an improvement?

[Rixarius]

"Driving a car is easy."

"Oh yeah? Show me your F1 title, if it's so easy"


See how dumb that sounds? Now apply it to that entire waste of an article.

I just wanted to point out that this is a great analogy.

[Duronos]

I hate to say this but for anyone for anyone (including me) to voice an opinion about Vanilla, I think we should all prove it with our subscription dates before saying Vanilla isn't as good as MoP etc.

EDIT:

[Meatboll]

The OP of this thread deserves a gold medal. People that actually played during vanilla knows how much better the game was. The game now is just so fisher price, even worse than ever with mope.

Did Jaylock just reveal his alt account?

[Theendgamelv3]

I just wanted to point out that this is a great analogy.

No it isn't as pointed out by a few people. Driving isn't a game to the general public and not only that there is a difference between driving and racing. The MORE FITTING analogy would be

"Racing a car is easy"

"Oh yea? Where is your F1 title, if it is so easy."

Again, bad analogy.

[Vargarii]

It's not just that. You had to spend insane amounts of time farming, which was a royal pain in the ass especially if you were a healer, since back than you were unable to kill one mob. Overall, the time you spent farming vs the time you spent actually raiding was huge. Rotations were non-existent etc... That's the problem: that "effort" was not "effort", but "time spent". Only with AQ and Naxx this began to change.


Yeah, High School is soooooo hard... oh wait no it's stupidly easy. My only regret is being born several years too early, there were no easy Internet back then

It's misleading to say healers couldn't kill anything. A buddy of mine used his priest and druid to solo elite mobs for the priest quest items to sell to people for gold. He was a healer on both of them, he had solid kiting skills.

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 01:29 AM ----------

Stopped here cause Mankirk's wife says hi.

My worst quest experience in vanilla was a level 50 hunter quest that required 2 drops normal stag mobs in Azshara. Between dodging the world dragon that happened to be up while I was doing it, I had to kill 99 stags to get the two drops. I rage killed the 100th just to say i killed 100.

On the flipside, the hunter epic quest for the bow/staff(both later) was my favorite quest experience, so it goes both ways.

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 01:33 AM ----------

The OP of this thread deserves a gold medal. People that actually played during vanilla knows how much better the game was. The game now is just so fisher price, even worse than ever with mope.

The OP didn't play in vanilla.

Also, not everyone feels that way. I may not like every change, but I'm well aware that the game is better than it was during vanilla. I would not be able to go back to vanilla, just like I couldn't go back to Everquest the few times I attempted to do so after WoW.

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 01:38 AM ----------

Also, all these posts about people dying before level 10. Did this really happen that much? I died a few times before level 10 on my first day, because I was doing it wrong, but generally, after I came to understand my class, I never really died unless I was doing things above my level or trying to solo elite stuff to see if I could.

/edit I did earn some deaths running from the night elf area to stormwind though, and i was among those that fell out of the tree in darnassus.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Did Jaylock just reveal his alt account?

Lmao Oh you....

---------- Post added 2013-04-28 at 10:42 PM ----------

Also, not everyone feels that way. I may not like every change, but I'm well aware that the game is better than it was during vanilla. I would not be able to go back to vanilla, just like I couldn't go back to Everquest the few times I attempted to do so after WoW.

Also, all these posts about people dying before level 10. Did this really happen that much? I died a few times before level 10 on my first day, because I was doing it wrong, but generally, after I came to understand my class, I never really died unless I was doing things above my level or trying to solo elite stuff to see if I could.

/edit I did earn some deaths running from the night elf area to stormwind though, and i was among those that fell out of the tree in darnassus.

I also don't remember a huge problem pre 10. The first memory I have about dying was in Deadmines around level 18 on a Paladin. I too died a lot on my first Night Elf by running to Westfall once I hit 10ish.

I don't want Vanilla back as a whole. Blizzard has progressed a lot since then in many great ways. I just want the design philosophy about how convenient things should be back. What is your personal opinion about 3 FPs in westfall? Sure, I could not use them, but its really about a larger symptom, when something like that is "good" necessary or even asked for in the first place.

[Vargarii]

Lmao Oh you....

---------- Post added 2013-04-28 at 10:42 PM ----------



I also don't remember a huge problem pre 10. The first memory I have about dying was in Deadmines around level 18 on a Paladin. I too died a lot on my first Night Elf by running to Westfall once I hit 10ish.

I don't want Vanilla back as a whole. Blizzard has progressed a lot since then in many great ways. I just want the design philosophy about how convenient things should be back. What is your personal opinion about 3 FPs in westfall? Sure, I could not use them, but its really about a larger symptom, when something like that is "good" necessary or even asked for in the first place.

I do feel it's getting to be a bit overboard. However, it largely doesn't affect my game, since I'm not an altaholic, and I choose not to do a lot of the things that I find annoying at endgame.

[melodramocracy]

No it isn't as pointed out by a few people. Driving isn't a game to the general public and not only that there is a difference between driving and racing. The MORE FITTING analogy would be

"Racing a car is easy"

"Oh yea? Where is your F1 title, if it is so easy."

Again, bad analogy.

There's certainly a difference between general playing and raiding (a very specific sub-set of the game) as well.

Again, the article is trying to imply that since there's a sliver of hard content, that the game overall is hard. Which is flat out wrong.

So lets put this in other video game terms:

"Super Mario Bros is an easy video game".

"Oh yeah? Where's your sub 5-minute speed run video?"

[Aktavite]

Well, As I explained, I had many other things to do other than the 8 hour time sink of JUST CLASSES. Still, I raided.

Yes, it was often a good time. Fun with friends. Kill Hordes. Immersion. Why has WoW lost its immersion? Because raiding has been boiled down to sitting in SW and hitting "queue" and thats it. Then you can afk and get your rep/loot/valor and have "fun." It was immersive because you had to plan ahead and prepare to actually do the raid.

When did immesion come from planning ahead to raid?

Players in vanilla still spammed chat LFG/LFR. People still went AKF in raids and got loot/rep.

Whats the problem with having 3 FP's in a small area? It takes away from the overall game. It trivializes leveling, and running and mounts and everything. Why is having 3 fps in westfall a good thing for the game?

You don't like the Flight Paths? Don't use them, no one is forcing you to use them. I use them, I like them, because I've seen the zone so many times now that I'd rather spend my time playing as much as possible then running from place to place.

Get over yourself. You opinion of the game is just that, an opinion and you grealty misrepresent the facts of what vanilla was like.

[Theendgamelv3]

There's certainly a difference between general playing and raiding (a very specific sub-set of the game) as well.

Again, the article is trying to imply that since there's a sliver of hard content, that the game overall is hard. Which is flat out wrong.

So lets put this in other video game terms:

"Super Mario Bros is an easy video game".

"Oh yeah? Where's your sub 5-minute speed run video?"

Lets be honest, when most people talk about difficulty in this game, they mean raiding and sometimes dungeons. In general questing wasn't that hard. Did it have challenges yes, but those challenges was usually optional from what I remember. There wasn't any speed bump while questing. Ok you can bring up dungeons and I will counter with challenge mode dungeons. So what is left in general playing that was harder back then? Deciding your talents? That is easy, I just go to a website. There isn't much of a way to figure out what makes WoW hard or easy outside of raiding and dungeons if you want. The flaw in your Mario argument is that Mario can be still easy even if you don't finish it in 5 mins. Are you telling me that if I don't beat Mario in 5 mins that I suck at it? That I don't beat Mario within 5 mins but beat it only to die once or twice and did it with in a reasonable time that I suck? That is what it sounds like. Seriously name a way to show WoW is easy without using raiding and/or dungeons and this has to apply to back then as it does now?

[SodiumChloride]

There's certainly a difference between general playing and raiding (a very specific sub-set of the game) as well.

Again, the article is trying to imply that since there's a sliver of hard con
tent, that the game overall is hard. Which is flat out wrong.

I don't really see the problem.

There is hard content and there is easy content. Just do the former if the latter bores you.

There is no reason for Blizzard to make the entire game hard and ostracize 95% of their player base.

So lets put this in other video game terms:

"Super Mario Bros is an easy video game".

"Oh yeah? Where's your sub 5-minute speed run video?"

Again this analogy is fail.

If someone was complaining Mario was too easy, yes asking him for his speed run record is perfectly reasonable.

[Malcor]

I wish half the people in this thread could see themselves back.....9 years ago when WoW came out and they were playing Vanilla, They would know they are just talking out of their asses when they say "The community is dead" or the million things wrong apparently.

IT

IS

NOSTALGIA

MoP is fantastic and last I checked WoW still had over 10 million subscribers which...is STILL the size of a small country, So yeah....It's fine.

"BUT THE COMMUNITY IS DEAD AND NO ONE TALKS TO EACH OTHER" Maybe on your server, Not on mine. I have a friends list full of people that log on every day and night. Up to 15 people online at once, Not even counting my small raiding guild of...120 people, My guild usually has about 10-15 people online during the day/night.

I have friends, I have community, I raid with a guild, I PvP with the guild and friends...I have shared so many personal and intimate moments with my guildies and friends and I would not change it for the world.

If WoW stopped tomorrow I would not know what to do without them, So this claim of "WoW has no community" is bullshit and you know it

[melodramocracy]

If someone was complaining Mario was too easy, yes asking him for his speed run record is perfectly reasonable.

This is where we'll just have to disagree I suppose. The speed run is superfluous to completing the game.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

When did immesion come from planning ahead to raid?

Players in vanilla still spammed chat LFG/LFR. People still went AKF in raids and got loot/rep.



You don't like the Flight Paths? Don't use them, no one is forcing you to use them. I use them, I like them, because I've seen the zone so many times now that I'd rather spend my time playing as much as possible then running from place to place.

Get over yourself. You opinion of the game is just that, an opinion and you grealty misrepresent the facts of what vanilla was like.

No. You get over yourself. You're just bitter. You're just experiencing the opposite of nostalgia.

You also didn;t answer my question, you just whined and bitched.

Running = playing.

Rarely did people go AFK in my guild.

Whats wrong with spamming /4?

[melodramocracy]

I wish half the people in this thread could see themselves back.....9 years ago when WoW came out and they were playing Vanilla, They would know they are just talking out of their asses when they say "The community is dead" or the million things wrong apparently.

I'd get a kick out of getting in a time machine, going back 9 years, and showing vanilla players a snapshot of what the game is like today. I wonder what most of the reactions would be.