Itemsquish reminder

[TyrantWave]

The issue is that we are running into issues with CPU load. Your damage log is so full of numbers etc that if you're running a DPS meter you're lagging hard. WoW has always been about allowing people with older machines run the game and not needing a super rig to play effectively. If I remember correctly when this was proposed they were saying that the servers only allowed up to the tens of billions (10,000,000,000) which we were already bumping against that in Cataclysm.

If your computer is lagging because of Recount, an item squish will have quite literally zero effect. Your computer would still lag.

I agree that running around with 300k hp and tanks nearing 1,000,000 is just dumb. We're heroes, yes, but we're not gods. I preferred the game when we were in the mid 10,000's of health and we were doing 2-6k DPS.

If I was running around with 10k health in Wrath and 2~6k dps, and then in MoP I still had those stats, I'd feel like my character hasn't progressed in the slightest.

Those numbers are much easier to calculate and balance and the game simply would run smoother with less CPU hopping on an already CPU intensive game.

You have no idea how computing works do you.

The squish needs to happen. Soon.

No it doesn't. Literally your only argument there is "I don't like big numbers".

Well, I don't like small numbers after gearing up for so long. One of us is going to end up disappointed, aren't we?

[Peso]

Item squish would be epic. I hope they scale the numbers down to vanilla level.

[Rizendragon]

That is not really a problem. More importantly, an item squish wouldn't change that at all. What it would do is, essentially, let expansion quest gear start where quest gear from the previous expansion ended, instead of raid gear. (So if you're done with Norhtrend and go to Vashj'ir/Hyjal, gear will only be a few iLvls higher instead of 100)
But only up to the then-current expansion.
It will not reduce the difference between tiers of the then-current expansion. You will still end that expansion doing far more damage and having far more health than you did at it's beginning. It will only lower the starting point.

That actually is a problem and a squish would help alleviate that problem quite a bit. This all basically started in Wrath when the highest planned ilvl was around 250 ( we can assume this from the Legendary Healing Mace), but with ToC came 10, 10H, 25, 25H and the difference between 10 and 25H became essentially 2 tiers. This in turn bloated player power much further than intended over fresh 80's (16-20k health 2.5k DPS vs. 30-40k health and approx 10K DPS). This is when it became apparent they may have to do something with the numbers down the road; I know I was already thinking that the numbers were ridiculous when Cata came out and we got a hard gear reset.

[melodramocracy]

Do you really want to go back to doing 1K DPS on a Boss?

Boss A has 1 million health, and you hit for 100k

Boss B has 100k health, and you hit for 10k

Boss C has 100 health, and you hit for 10.

It's all the same.

- - - Updated - - -

You realize that this concept you keep handwaving away as "power creep" is the primary design point of the game, right? Character advancement! Getting more powerful is what drives most of us to play.

Getting more powerful allows you to see more, newer, more difficult content. The trivializing of old content that happens because of it is actually a pretty big detriment to the game.

[TyrantWave]

Getting stronger so I can curbstomp things that used to challenge me is something I kind of enjoy actually. Quite the opposite of a detriment.

[Eazy]

I don't get this. High numbers isn't problem, as long as you don't suck at math it's fine I think.

[Thyranne]

Getting stronger so I can curbstomp things that used to challenge me is something I kind of enjoy actually. Quite the opposite of a detriment.

I agree with this. Right now the only thing I do is: do dailies, get coins and raid. Nothing else. I have a druid that I play casually and I love soloing stuffs on that character. If the squish does happen (and it affects soloing) then I'll have no reason to touch that character and I'll have no reason to login except do dailies and raids.

[Rizendragon]

If your computer is lagging because of Recount, an item squish will have quite literally zero effect. Your computer would still lag.




If I was running around with 10k health in Wrath and 2~6k dps, and then in MoP I still had those stats, I'd feel like my character hasn't progressed in the slightest.



You have no idea how computing works do you.



No it doesn't. Literally your only argument there is "I don't like big numbers".

Well, I don't like small numbers after gearing up for so long. One of us is going to end up disappointed, aren't we?

To quote the original dev watercooler:

If we can make numbers such as floating combat text and boss health and item stats a little easier to read at a glance, then maybe we can endure numbers increasing exponentially for many digits to come. Now there are some very real computational limitations. PCs just can’t quickly perform math on very large numbers, so we’d have to solve all of those problems as well. Even today, tanks can hit the ten digit threat cap on some encounters.

Running a damage meter on your damage log is part of the problem. the damage log is getting out of hand and there is a 10 digit cap (1,000,000,000) on either the client or server end. You can re read the post if you'd like here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

It doesn't change that in terms of the numbers the issue will need to be addressed at some point down the road.

[Peso]

I think the numbers scaled way too fast. If they do an item squish let's hope that each new tier will add a small gap between the previous tier but will still be large enough to make a difference in the raid difficulty.

[ssviolett]

I dont care, what the point ?
I did 800 dps on Patchwerk in vanilla on my rogue.
I did 2000 dps in TBC on rogue.
I did 15k dps in WotLK on my rogue.
I do 200k dps on my mage now.
Maybe I'll do somewhere around 1-2m in next expansion on my Demon Hunter ^^

You see - numbers varying from 1 to 4 digits, the difference is only order - thousands, millions ... billions ^^ Many addons hide unnesesary digits rounding numbers up - no problem.

[Thyranne]

To quote the original dev watercooler:



Running a damage meter on your damage log is part of the problem. the damage log is getting out of hand and there is a 10 digit cap (1,000,000,000) on either the client or server end. You can re read the post if you'd like here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

It doesn't change that in terms of the numbers the issue will need to be addressed at some point down the road.

It only affects your performance IF you use a different variable type.

There is absolutly no other way that it can affect your performance.

[Keilden]

Why does everyone who don't want the squish say stuff like: "Its just numbers why do you care?"
If they didn't care about numbers like they say why are they against the squish?

[huth]

You don't have to care about numbers to be against wasting manhours on a pointless endeavour.

That actually is a problem and a squish would help alleviate that problem quite a bit. This all basically started in Wrath when the highest planned ilvl was around 250 ( we can assume this from the Legendary Healing Mace), but with ToC came 10, 10H, 25, 25H and the difference between 10 and 25H became essentially 2 tiers. This in turn bloated player power much further than intended over fresh 80's (16-20k health 2.5k DPS vs. 30-40k health and approx 10K DPS). This is when it became apparent they may have to do something with the numbers down the road; I know I was already thinking that the numbers were ridiculous when Cata came out and we got a hard gear reset.

What does it matter if it was planned to be 250 and then got another 30 tacked on due to the changes or if it was planned to be 150 and then got another 30 tacked on? The squish will not change the steps between tiers in an expansion. It will affect the steps between expansions.

[nyc81991]

Yeah, its called getting more powerful over time. That is what MMO's like WoW are about.

People need to get over "omg numbers are too big!!". Why does it matter if someone is doing 1,000 dps vs 1,000,000 dps? Are the extra three zero's really that hard to deal with?

[Thyranne]

Why does everyone who don't want the squish say stuff like: "Its just numbers why do you care?"
If they didn't care about numbers like they say why are they against the squish?

Because I like feeling stronger as time passes.

[Kalan]

Blizzard (specifically Ghostcrawler) seemed to think players would be begging for an item squish once the numbers got to a certain point, but I've never understood why big numbers are a problem. An item squish wouldn't bother me, but why risk confusing/angering the uninformed?

Griffter's Frostbolt hit you for 89,456,556,458.

Quite annoying.

[TyrantWave]

To quote the original dev watercooler:



Running a damage meter on your damage log is part of the problem. the damage log is getting out of hand and there is a 10 digit cap (1,000,000,000) on either the client or server end. You can re read the post if you'd like here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

It doesn't change that in terms of the numbers the issue will need to be addressed at some point down the road.

"Very large" numbers isn't 1,000,000 per hit. It's not 10,000,000 per hit. It's over 4 billion per hit. So when your rogue is now hitting for around 4 billion+ per hit consistently, THEN you'll have an issue, because they'll need to adjust the type. Which would cause a performance hit, but increase the next number cap to 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 if they use a signed long long.

Right now, we're not even at 1% of the current limit.

Tank threat is hitting that, yes. And you know what? It's still coping fine. When DPS/HPS hits that, there might be an issue - but that's not quite a while yet (He even mentioned it in the part before you bolded - exponentially for many digits to come - as in, keep exponential growth going for a long time).

[Thyranne]

Griffter's Frostbolt hit you for 89,456,556,458.

Quite annoying.

Not worse than:

Sargeras' Apocalypse hits you for 640.

[ssviolett]

That is not really a problem. More importantly, an item squish wouldn't change that at all. What it would do is, essentially, let expansion quest gear start where quest gear from the previous expansion ended, instead of raid gear. (So if you're done with Norhtrend and go to Vashj'ir/Hyjal, gear will only be a few iLvls higher instead of 100)
But only up to the then-current expansion.
It will not reduce the difference between tiers of the then-current expansion. You will still end that expansion doing far more damage and having far more health than you did at it's beginning. It will only lower the starting point.

That is exactly the point why Blizzard made quest gear more powerful than raid gear of previous expansion. They want people to progress, not to stay with old epics till mid-tier. Obviuosly you didnt play TBC, when you could keep old naxx raiding gear till Kara-Gruul raids. Also old raid gear will give you an advancement as compared with new players, what Blizzard dont want to happen.
Actually I dont like it neither. I am an old school player and was frustrated when Blizzard started to give free epics, classic pvp ranks, etc. to everyone, but I gave up long ago. What you said will never happen again.

[Aquamonkey]

Not worse than:

Sargeras' Apocalypse hits you for 640.

If I only have 10 hp, I'm pretty screwed.