Blizz Refusal to Buff Arms Single Target Under Questioning

[Skarssen]

I just want to highlight this one in particular. In a pvp setting, haste is next to useless. Mastery really isn't any better, its among if not the worst mastery in the game. Mastery procs for 3k on people? Crazy damage man...

Crit is the only stat we even want so we scale terribly.

My suggestion for stat scaling would be to buff mastery to 80% weapon damage and to make haste make deep wounds tick faster (correct me if it already does but I'm under the impression it doesn't).

GC has historically dismissed the scaling issue as irrelevant, suggesting they can just buff the damage if it is too low. The problem is that they rarely think damage is too low unless its a mage spec. Scaling IS a problem. Unlike arms frost DKs started off the expansion in a really good spot thanks to high baseline damage (passive haste and killing machine), but has dropped consistently till it is little better than arms. Both specs scale extremely well with weapon damage, okay with 1 secondary stat (haste and crit, respectively), and absolutely abysmally with everything else. Both specs are at or near the bottom in PVE damage on nearly every encounter (hard to tell with arms though since almost no one plays it and the sample size is so small, along with sampling bias....frost still has a lot of people playing it since unholy is really a love it or hate it spec), both scale terribly, and both suffer from having another DPS spec that is performing adequately in raids. Unfortunately for both specs, it is highly unlikely that Blizzard is going to address the scaling issue this expansion.

We just need to put on dresses and prance around like dainty little women (i.e. mages) in order to get some attention from Blizzard.

[sjsctt]

They will not buff us because they sincerely do not believe we have any problems. If you use statistical data, they will throw the word sample bias in your face. If you talk about sims, they will say sim doesn't reflect accurately. It truly is a no win situation. There is nothing you can do to get a buff.

[cFortyfive]

My Guess is that if most high end warriors would go and parse a week or two as Arms, we would see it be around 5-15% behind Fury on most fights. It's still worse, but it's not by such a big margin.

10% sounds reasonable or maybe 15%. Doubt it is 5% but it doesn't really matter. Fury is everything but on top even if the brigade will probably charge in now to disagree still being another 10% below that puts you in a place that is simply bad.

[Beefkow]

Well, for those who proved me wrong, please do us all a favor and type on the ptr fourms discussing about warrior changes, (no i am not going to do that because i am not a fan of typing up paragraphs by paragraphs by paragraphs).

It will have to take a popular person like klinda or swifty to speak up to blizzard.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9344414809 look at this thread, they are discussing about pve warriors, i might bother to respond and support that thread.

[Forgettable]

Arms is in fact the worst spec in the game at the moment, aside from Frost DK (single target).

What do you guys think?

I think this statement is silly. Frost DK is not the worst spec in the game at the moment.

[Deleted]

A lot of stubborn people (me included until about 2 weeks ago) who love Arms and much prefer it over Fury.

Sure, a small percentage. Compared to the rest, mostly fully geared heroic raiders running as fury. The chances of finding a geared Arms warrior are slim. Most (almost all) of the top warriors (top geared as well) are playing fury. Of course arms is going to be misrepresented damage wise, its silly to interpret it otherwise.

[hazer221]

So you reasoning for arms being shit is because you can't get into RBGs (where range will eternally be king and NO melee except a target calling DK will be allowed) and that another melee is better than us in a certain comp? Woah way to shatter my argument man. Once again theres a warrior who isn't content unless hes the KING of unhealable damage and endless CC. 2 shot? Fuck that, i won't stop posting until i can 1 shot someone. Have you actually tried 3s with a decent warrior comp? Aka WMP, WMD, KFC with priest, kitty cleave, WLD? You'll be happy to know half of those comps counter supposed uncounterable wizard cleaves.

Heres a your tip of the day:

"Just because i'm not overpowered, doesn't mean i should be"

NERF OP stuff to decent level, not BUFF decent stuff to OP level. You're just going to cause an endless chain that way, sorry.

1. Identify the problem
2. Tell us why it is a problem
3. Provide proof that its a problem and not just you sucking, or something like that
4. Make suggestions

Currently we have:

1. Identify the problem
2. Make the problem more apparent

If warriors are only good at AoE, don't buff their. Likewise, if single target DMG is all we've got in PVP, don't bloody buff it. Buff our utility, defense, mobility or whatever is deemed to be the problem. You're thinking like 4.2. "Warriors are 1 shotting people, lets buff their damage and remove their mobility"

NO

I've run kitty cleave this season to 2250, and I didn't even play last season so idk much about the insane damage warriors were doing but that isn't what I'm asking for at all. I want a baseline rootbreak (so we can actually use safeguard for what it should be used for.....), maybe BS baseline, SR on a slightly shorter CD, and yes, maybe a small damage buff to MS preferably. And no, I don't necessarily want all four of those changes, but even 1-2 would be helpful. And yes, kitty cleave does fine against spell cleaves, too bad the vast majority of comps are hunter/x/disc and that (more often then not) beats kitty this patch.

Asking for every other class to be nerfed to our level is all well and good, but please, show me one instance in WoWs history when that has happened. I'd say nearly always its: buff the weaker class(es).

I don't think I'm asking for much, look at the overhaul afflic is getting next patch... I'd be thrilled right now if I were them...

[Hand Banana]

GC has historically dismissed the scaling issue as irrelevant, suggesting they can just buff the damage if it is too low. The problem is that they rarely think damage is too low unless its a mage spec. Scaling IS a problem. Unlike arms frost DKs started off the expansion in a really good spot thanks to high baseline damage (passive haste and killing machine), but has dropped consistently till it is little better than arms. Both specs scale extremely well with weapon damage, okay with 1 secondary stat (haste and crit, respectively), and absolutely abysmally with everything else. Both specs are at or near the bottom in PVE damage on nearly every encounter (hard to tell with arms though since almost no one plays it and the sample size is so small, along with sampling bias....frost still has a lot of people playing it since unholy is really a love it or hate it spec), both scale terribly, and both suffer from having another DPS spec that is performing adequately in raids. Unfortunately for both specs, it is highly unlikely that Blizzard is going to address the scaling issue this expansion.

I would argue arms scale far worse than frost dks. Frost dks get more out of weapon damage, both haste and mastery are good stats for them and even crit isnt half bad since killing machine only affects a few things. Arms on the other hand gets literally almost 0 from haste in a pvp setting, and mastery procs might as well be an elemental force weapon enchant the damage is so crappy (usually about 1/4th of an overpower which is already weak lol). Crit and strength are the only stats that help us, so when I pick up a pvp piece that has haste and mastery on it I might as well drop it for a pve piece that has crit and expertise since that will probably outweigh the pvp power loss. Seriously, I reforge to crit > expertise right now to have my hamstrings not get parried, thats how bad the other secondary stats are. They even buffed the haste we get by 50% and still no one touches it, no stat should be that pathetic for anyone.

[Darkfriend]

Arms really is in a sad state atm. I've been sticking to it zealosly ever since Ulduar, and this is the first tier I've actually seriously tried fury again, after feeling I was starting to lag behind too much. It's kind of silly when you can easily rank top 10 on world of logs and still be the bottom dps in the raid. Fury just obliterates Arms in every possible way atm, even though I'm still failing quite badly with managing my RB stacks every now and then. Not sure I even feel like continuing raiding if I have to stick to Fury next tier as well. And for those saying play what you feel like, I'm in a heroic raiding guild, 6/13 atm, so that extra damage really is required :<


(http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;Thalas/uthan/ for those interested)

Ye, I checked the logs and it looked like the #2 arms which was yours was around 20k less DPS on lei shen than mine which was only like top 30 or something. And you had adds to kill during intermission phase, which boosts DPS on that fight (WOL uses real DPS, which is Damage done divided by time of fight, while recount uses active DPS, which is damage done divided by time doing damage)

[Gorca]

Well, right now the ONLY niche Fury has is end game PVE. It is terrible for leveling and well behind in PVP. I could be totally wrong, but it just seems like a lot of PVPers just don't want to leave their comfort zone and learn another spec.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Perhaps Arms' mastery needs to be changed again or something. Seems better in Cata(OMG THE NERVE OF ME!).

[Darkfriend]

Perhaps Arms' mastery needs to be changed again or something. Seems better in Cata(OMG THE NERVE OF ME!).

Arms was decent during parts of cata because of 1.) SS 2.) Only spec to have BS 3.) in T11, the chargebug 4.) How rage gain worked.

[raist474]

The crux of the problem is Blizzards refusal to separate PvE damage from PvP damage. You can't buff Arms for PvE without the PvP side of the house throwing a fit.

The "PvP tree, PvE tree" concept was thrown out during Wrath, allowing Hybrids to finally reach their potential, and in some situations, actually lead the field in tanking/healing/damage. It feels like whomever is designing warriors didn't get the email.

[meathead]

are people actually trying to say arms is in a good spot atm?lmfao.tell you what-show me your skill as an MS warrior.get yourself into a top ten pve guild as arms and then run end game raids.come back here and post your #'s compared to the rest of your raid.full screen shot and all-lets see how good arms really is.o wait a minute a top 10 pve guild would not even let and MS warrior join unless they had friends in that guild,let alone run end game.

[Gamez]

Think of it this way OP.

Blizzard hates arms warriors, arms warriors are always nerfed. We even had to change to PROTECTION because of the shit that happened in WotLK and thats gone now so no more choices.

However, Blizzard ADORE mages, (frost mages mostly) always buffed and when nerfed, the nerfs are so weak they barely show up or become noticeable.

a freaken juggernaut with a giant 2hander charging a stupid dress clown at a point where there is no magic barriers, only to cause a small dent on his dress lol.

[Miko]

I have always loved my Warrior, it has always felt like a decent balanced class for the most part. Trouble is in ever aspect of the game both PVE and PVP, I am not up against decent classes, it's always OP mages.

[Warriorsarri]

are people actually trying to say arms is in a good spot atm?lmfao.tell you what-show me your skill as an MS warrior.get yourself into a top ten pve guild as arms and then run end game raids.come back here and post your #'s compared to the rest of your raid.full screen shot and all-lets see how good arms really is.o wait a minute a top 10 pve guild would not even let and MS warrior join unless they had friends in that guild,let alone run end game.

I'll try to do a 13/13 Heroic clear next week as Arms, and I'll post the numbers, I'll most likely be quite low, but don't think I'll be dead last.

[Deleted]

I don't mind being last in dps (someone has to be). That being said, it need to get closer.
Sure fury is best for good players, but for a casual like me I find arms much more forgiving (if you don't/can't do an optimal rotation).
Looking at the times I ranked as arms it would usual place me around 180-300 if I did the same dps as fury. Which reflect my skill lvl pretty good(if not lower).
So can't be that much behind as I just got a hc weapon this week. But ofc you can't base it on yourself.
I understand people in high progress can only play fury, but for the avg player allot of times they would do better as arms most likely.
What bother me mainly, is all the mechanics that other melee handle much better. Solo soaking on Lei, dropping stacks on Iron Q etc.
The shield wall change will help a bit I guess. And changing die by the sword to an immune for 5sec or so in pve would solve the problem imo.
Do doubt we will get buff that is needed, but can always hope.

[cFortyfive]

but don't think I'll be dead last.

Well with farming going on for so long by now that isn't really to be expected.

[Hand Banana]

a freaken juggernaut with a giant 2hander charging a stupid dress clown at a point where there is no magic barriers, only to cause a small dent on his dress lol.

Just reminded me of some 2s I did earlier this week. I was a 100% on my war, mage was at 100% when I charged him. He blew frozen orb and made absolutely 0 movement to kite (he was terrible to begin with) and I basically started crushing his face. However his instant cast spam was outdamaging my beating his face in and I was forced to run (our healers were dicking around cc'ing each other). A MAGE NOT MOVING forced me to HL -> run because he was instant casting more than my 2 hander could hit his dress. Bugs me lol. We won that game because they were terrible but that stood out pretty hard to me.