[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[Ticj]

To those who keep saying we are whining all the time, bitching and moaning, have you ever stopped to think we are doing it for a reason? Seriously, play the leveling process from both factions. On the horde you feel like you win everything. Alliance, it feels like you do all this stuff, and guess what? You still lose. In MoP, it started out great. It told great story regarding the war (especially 5.1) and then, they lost it. 5.3 was a HUGE disappointment to alliance players. Honestly, start out with the barrens quest chain and you will see why. We don't even get to play our own character the ENTIRE quest chain. While the horde, have two major battles fighting alongside their faction leaders. It's completely obvious that the horde were given more attention there. You'd be lying if you didn't see that.

[Thimagryn]

No but I at least expected us to be told our lands were being returned even if it wasn't reflected and the horde had to agree to terms in order for us to leave.

We hold all the cards it literally makes 0 sense for Varian to leave empty handed

Ehhh, you still wouldn't have been satisfied if this was the case. Then the complaint would be "Blizz said we're getting our lands back, when's it gonna happen ??!!?!?!??!" and "Blizz lied to us again, said they were giving lands back but they're still Horde controlled in game"

[KrazyK923]

What can you tell us about the upcoming Worlf of Warcraft: Stormrage by Richard A. Knaak?
I would just say too, I mean Malfurion’s always been, personally, my favorite Warcraft hero. He’s my favorite to write, so I’ve waited a long time to get this guy back into the mix, and have him play a significant role in the shaping of Azeroth. He’s a mega player, and he’s been off the scene.

I’m really stoked on this book. We really designed the essential backbone of the book to be just hyper Druid overload. If you’re a WoW Druid, this book’s for you. It features all the major druid characters, and players. I love it. Love it, love it. (Source)

Not sure why you keep quoting this like it means something. Just look at what they actually did in the game to see their true feelings.

Blizzard also says they care about the Alliance players. And roflmao to that,

[Aquamonkey]

Not sure why you keep quoting this like it means something. Just look at what they actually did in the game to see their true feelings.

Blizzard also says they care about the Alliance players. And roflmao to that,

Read who I was responding to.

[KrazyK923]

Read who I was responding to.

Doesn't change the point whatsoever and I still stick to my original argument of what they say and do are totally different. Metzen can say Malfurion is his favorite until he's blue in the face, but he's ultimately the one shoving fucking Thrall down our throat.

[Heladys]

I find it funny seeing people whine about alliance after all these years. You should've learned by now. Alliance will always be like this. Deal with it.

The Horde Collective will be attacking you shortly for going off-message. The correct response is "silly alliance, there's no bias and you get great stuff so shut up"

[seije]

I find it funny seeing people whine about alliance after all these years. You should've learned by now. Alliance will always be like this. Deal with it.

i guess blizz should just disable alliance character creation then, and turn it into a 1 faction game. /sarcasm


look, the game is more interesting when both factions are against each other-- but no one likes to be on the losing side. that's why most Alliance fans are so annoyed by all the constant losses in the past few expacs, and why the Horde fans are so passionate about not losing anything in SoO.

Are there some idiot fanboys pushing way to hard on both sides of the fence? absolutely. But from a logical standpoint, if the alliance gains nothing aside from Garrosh being killed in SoO (we still don't know which faction gets the lore-kill), then there was no reason for the alliance to help out in the first place. Why should the Alliance players feel pride that they get to siege Orgrimmar, when they could do the exact same thing as a horde? Everything that the alliance gets to do, the horde also get to do. The lore-kills in SoO are going to make or break this expansion for both factions in terms of who was successful. And as much as i want Varian to get the lore-kill on Garrosh, i don't see it happening for two reasons: first, it's just so damn unlikely, especially knowing that Vol'Jin and Thrall are going to be there. Second, i think there's too much horde bias among the playerbase and development team for an alliance victory of such magnitude.

As an Alliance player, I just want some landmark paying tribute to Alliance accomplishments this expac. Give me Dalaran floating above the Theramore crater for anyone that's progressed to that phase. It's a simple copy/paste of the architecture, locking the door to VH (and probably adding grates in front of the sewer entrances just to make things simpler), and changing a few generic NPCs into other generic NPCs. Let the Alliance see the one truly awesome thing they gained this expac. That's all I want.


Although personally, I would also love if the cutscene for the garrosh kill was something along the following:

At 1%, Garrosh does some ability, incapacitating the raid, and knocking down any NPCs involved in the fight (hopefully Thrall, Vol'Jin, Jaina, and Varian are present for BOTH factions, even if they don't do shit, like Akama in the Illidan fight). Garrosh says some cray-cray stuff about refusing to lose, then cutscene starts.

Varian shakes himself from a daze, and finds Jaina unconcious next to him. He hears A laugh, and looks up to see Garrosh wounded and bloody, but on his feet. Varian climbs to his feet, and draws his sword. There is a final duel between the two, ending in Varian scoring a clearly fatal blow. Garrosh stumbles back, grasping at the heart of Y'saarj, hoping to draw more power from it (most likely something that happens at least once during the encounter, so it is clear to the player that Garrosh is about to heal up and kick some ass), but just as he's about to reach it, an arrow strikes the heart, and it cracks and crumbles away to ash/explodes/something else flashy or dramatic looking.
Garrosh turns around, Varian's sword still sticking through his chest to find Vol'Jin leaning on his bow for support, next to an unconscious Thrall.
"I dun told ya, mon," VJ says, "Dat I'd be da one to pierce ya black heart."
Garrosh gives one last groan, possibly a short sentence, then falls to the ground, dead.
VJ lifts his bow again, and draws another arrow. "And now, 'High King,' I tank ya for ya help, but now it be time for us to end all o dis fightin' once and for all." Varian looks back and sees Horde revolutionaries heading up the tunnel, blocking the only path of escape, then looks over to Jaina, who has begun to stir. VJ fires off an arrow, which is then deflected by Varian.
Varian shouts at Jaina as she begins to sit up. "Jaina! You have to get us out of here!"
"What?" she asks, still dazed.
"JAINA, NOW!" Varian yells.
Jaina snaps out of her stupor, realizes what's going on, and you see a mass teleport spell go off for Jaina, Varian, and various other Alliance NPCs that are strewn about (as this is a cutscene to be viewed by both factions, it does not show her porting an alliance raid out of the city).
Thrall is the last one wake. "Vol'Jin," he asks. "What happened?"
"We took back Orgrimmar, ma friend. We took back da horde."

/fade to black

after that, the alliance can click on some sort of chest for their boss loot, and horde can either loot Garrosh himself, or a chest as well. I like this as an ending because it keeps the 'war' in warcraft, the factions still hate each other, and it explains how the alliance were forced out of orgrimmar without being able to force a treaty... BUT once again, i'd only accept an ending such as this if the alliance got Dalaran over Theramore crater, or some other noticable landmark that all players could see in game, that Alliance fans could point to and say "Yeah, we did that. screw you, horde!"

[Talen]

i guess blizz should just disable alliance character creation then, and turn it into a 1 faction game. /sarcasmp

Who'd notice?

/fade to black

A recipe for war.

EJL

[Tiago]

I actually pity alliance players right now.

Well, you guys can always faction change.

[Verain]

I won't rest until night elves are unflagged in Orgrimmar and it says in green "Alliance territory".

[Schaden]

Horde will get out of Ashenvale if Alliance gets the hell out of the Barrens, but I doubt that any of the Alliance players would agree to that. Meanwhile, Alliance still complain about a legitimate military maneuver made against the largest Alliance stronghold in Kalimdor and the beachhead of the invasion force that still has the Tauren blockaded behind a massive wall.

Oh, and they want Lordaeron and Gilneas back. Because who cares if the Horde can't get Kezan and the Forsaken suddenly have their 10-20 zone now dominated by the Alliance? Well, oops, no more Forsaken because they've been purged from Lordaeron.

Honestly, the problem the Alliance story faces isn't Horde bias, but Blizzard's belief that unity under a High King = destroying any and all conflict within the Alliance itself. They literally had all the races, one by one, swoon at Varian's feet once he swaggered in and took charge. Oooooh, Mr. High King ooooh! Right now, if it continues, then the Alliance isnt going to get any decent storytelling because there's going to be nothing to write about, not because Blizz doesn't want to. Couple that with the insane demands some fanbrats make like above and it only gets worse.

Hell, me and a few old RP buddies are re-writing Cataclysm and MoP with Varian descending into madness instead of Garrosh and I bet some of you fanbrats would hate it all the same.

[KrazyK923]

Horde will get out of Ashenvale if Alliance gets the hell out of the Barrens, but I doubt that any of the Alliance players would agree to that. Meanwhile, Alliance still complain about a legitimate military maneuver made against the largest Alliance stronghold in Kalimdor and the beachhead of the invasion force that still has the Tauren blockaded behind a massive wall.

This old argument again? Theramore only expanded into the Southern Barrens to establish a trade route to the Night Elves because of a War Garrosh started by taking advantage of the Cataclysm.

I love how an obvious Horde-player's idea of compensation is for both sides to lose something. Clearly the Alliance, who are there in complete force in Orgrimmar where the Horde have splintered, should acquiesce to anything the Horde want. Makes no sense.

Then again, the Alliance probably will end up doing it because Blizzard has been writing the Alliance as complete fucking morons who do things antithetical to their well-being.

[roahn the warlock]

This old argument again? Theramore only expanded into the Southern Barrens to establish a trade route to the Night Elves because of a War Garrosh started by taking advantage of the Cataclysm.

I love how an obvious Horde-player's idea of compensation is for both sides to lose something. Clearly the Alliance, who are there in complete force in Orgrimmar where the Horde have splintered, should acquiesce to anything the Horde want. Makes no sense.

Then again, the Alliance probably will end up doing it because Blizzard has been writing the Alliance as complete fucking morons who do things antithetical to their well-being.

How about this, the only people with ships near Orgrimmar are sylvanas and Lorthemar. Let's just say the alliance decided to take Org and procced to slaughter the tauren and trolls. Bam Sylvanas raises the dead, the Forsaken march across the eastern kingdoms while their king is away and The horde that the alliance manages to take fights back in constant rebellion.

It is to be assumed that there is a treaty for peace and a ceasefire... or do you think we are still fighting in places like the eye of the storm? Battlegrounds dont count.

Also, anything in old world is to be considered PRE 5.4. just like outland and northrend are pre 3.0 and 4.0 respectively.

They do not update shit, because you are playing through your own story, and end game is when you catch up to real time.

Alliance needs to calm down and wait, because they can't just remove a faction. Taking all the hordes lands back would be a huge mistake. seeing as it is quite even right now... or do the alliance have less leveling zones than the horde? I thought not.

I don't like to go the world war rout, but what happened when germany lost WWI and the allied powers took away all the german land, didn't help them rebuild and made them pay for war expenses? Did you people even take a history class?

And I will end with this, if you talk to Vol'jin in 5.3 he says if the alliance goes in alone, than the trolls wait, and sylvanas rezzes and uses them again, if the horde goes in alone, than the alliance wont have the strength to take orgrimmar. It is mutually beneficial. And for the alliance to turn on this temporary treaty would be like... well it would be like the Red wedding, the Horde would never forget

[KrazyK923]

Alliance needs to calm down and wait, because they can't just remove a faction. Taking all the hordes lands back would be a huge mistake. seeing as it is quite even right now... or do the alliance have less leveling zones than the horde? I thought not.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Calm down and wait?

We've been waiting since Cataclysm for something. Pretending the Horde are in any position in their state to actually do anything remotely close to the Red Wedding is an absolute joke. I honestly love the Horde players acting as if the Alliance are NOW suddenly complaining about this.

I forgot who said as such, but there was a comment on this website a few days ago where somebody said (I'm paraphrasing here):

You could tell how the story was structured when both the Alliance wanted interesting storytelling as well as the Horde. Then Cataclysm came out and now you have the Alliance complaining and the Horde complaining about the complaining instead of the actual story.

[Deleted]

Horde gets Orgrimmar back from the alliance, so...We should be given Undercity as a thank you c:

the alliance abandoned lordaron , which is just a bunch of ruins btw.
They people 'living' there now are the same people that used to live there before, except they are forsaken now ,
It was Sylvanas that led the rebellion that freed the city , it was Sylvanas that fought the scourge for control, Undercity was build by the forsaken , it's their city, not the Alliance, that ship sailed long ago. Deal with it.

[Deleted]

I have a question. What was the actual 'fist-pumping' moment?

[Talen]

How about this, the only people with ships near Orgrimmar are sylvanas and Lorthemar. Let's just say the alliance decided to take Org and procced to slaughter the tauren and trolls.

Come 5.4 and the Horde are essentially devastated, with total defeat possible within a single year and the Alliance having a say in whether the selection of a warchief even goes ahead. That would include defeating the Forsaken who are not as strong as many seem to think. They are reliant upon the Val'kyr, limited in their necromantic abilities, and vulnerable to fire and other weapons. They also lack the Scourges two most important weapons - surprise and a near total ignorance of the undead, their abilities and how to fight them. The Forsaken are tough; they are far from invincible.

Alliance needs to calm down and wait, because they can't just remove a faction. Taking all the hordes lands back would be a huge mistake.

But restoring the Alliance lands would not.

be seeing as it is quite even right now... or do the alliance have less leveling zones than the horde? I thought not.

That is a truly ridiculous argument. Equal levelling zones has no bearing on gameplay and doesn't even come into the equation if a lore based victory or phasing is used.

I don't like to go the world war rout, but what happened when germany lost WWI and the allied powers took away all the german land, didn't help them rebuild and made them pay for war expenses? Did you people even take a history class?

What about the WW2 route when the Allies broke up the Axis and restored the captured lands back to their original owners? Then helped Germany rebuild? Germany remained as an entity but the Allies got their victory and ensured Germany didn't threaten them again.

And I will end with this, if you talk to Vol'jin in 5.3 he says if the alliance goes in alone, than the trolls wait, and sylvanas rezzes and uses them again, if the horde goes in alone, than the alliance wont have the strength to take orgrimmar.

That isn't the case. He knows the Alliance wants to use them so he says he'll hold back and let the Alliance smash the Horde and then attack them. The Alliance wants fewer casualties from this. At no point is it inferred the Alliance can't do it without him; indeed...given their readiness to cancel the op, the inference is if they land, they will be able to do it.

It is mutually beneficial. And for the alliance to turn on this temporary treaty would be like... well it would be like the Red wedding, the Horde would never forget

After what the Horde has done? Also - what Treaty?

EJL

[Verdugo]

Come 5.4 and the Horde are essentially devastated, with total defeat possible within a single year and the Alliance having a say in whether the selection of a warchief even goes ahead. That would include defeating the Forsaken who are not as strong as many seem to think. They are reliant upon the Val'kyr, limited in their necromantic abilities, and vulnerable to fire and other weapons.

Alliance doesnt have numbers.

[Talen]

I have a question. What was the actual 'fist-pumping' moment?

Beating up shopkeepers in Dalaran.

Alliance doesn't have numbers.

Against the Forsaken? They do. The Forsaken aren't the Scourge. They have limits. They are very beatable as they are. There is a reason why the Forsaken need the Horde. Or needed it at any rate.

EJL

[Zulkhan]

This is moronic. Garrosh didn't all of this shit alone. He didn't level Southshore or throw innocent farmers into camps. He didn't employ the mana bomb alone and he wasn't always opposed.

So? You know that in the SoO we're not going to just kill Garrosh, but ANYONE who will defend him, in few words anyone that willingly and gladly followed him in all of this shit. Heck, even a good guy like Nazgrim that has been unable to throw away his loyalty will die.

The Forsaken's war campaign in Gilneas has been triggered by Garrosh himself, and the taking over of Hillsbrad has been an indirect consequence.