Bradley Manning verdict.

[Hughes]

Both which showed basically nothing other than undercounting of civilian casualities, which is not a war crime? Like have you read those? They ironically MAKE the case for US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq (at the time), rather than undercut it.

Like I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here? I really think you're hoping there is something there that there isn't.

Doesn't matter what the content is, the fact remains he leaked confidential information. He's lucky he was found not guilty and put in jail for life or even executed.

[lawow74]

He got off light, IMO. If this mess over the NSA and Snowden had never happened, I suspect he would have been hammered with treason. But with the world watching and the government wanting to appear tough but fair, they simply put him down for breaking his oath of service.

[Rumred]

I know you didn't post it - but you proverbially high fived the sentiment and alluded to civil rights leaders. Civil rights leaders raged against policies made legal by the government. Truthfully? In order to maintain control of the populace, I don't know how the government could've fought against black rights for much longer. But I digress.

Yes but without people out there championing the cause even if they were jailed or in the case of MLK killed then who knows where we would be in terms of race relations now. But i also digress.Change has to happen from inside the nation be it by making changes to the laws and holding politicians accountable or slowly changeling the government in its entirety it has to happen from the nation not from Canada or abroad.

[Thorim]

I thought that the Geneva conventions & Nuremberg principles compelled Soldiers to not follow orders which were a violation of the laws of War, and to expose war crimes?

The 'collateral murders' documents were clearly war crimes, including allowing medical evacuation of casualties and desecrating the dead, did he just get found guilty due to the amount of Documents released even though they clearly did show evidence of war crimes?

[Rumred]

I would hardly call the USSR peaceful to its own people....

Relatively peaceful change from the USSR to Russia and the former soviet bloc states is what i was meaning.

[chrisisvacant]

So you think the US Government would call out the Army to stop you from voting for a 3rd party candidate?

No, but I do think the US government has had the initial 2 parties firmly cemented in place. The media, which controls the minds of millions (maybe not your mind, but millions in the flyovers, for sure), has made almost a joke out of third party candidates.

That and the fact that a third party president doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Remember when Obama was elected and he swore he just couldn't get anything done because he was routinely blocked by the Republicans? Imagine that times two. A third party president in a government represented by the other 2 parties would be laughably ineffectual.

[Arcanist]

Peacefully, though? Hmm. Not sure about that. Take a look around the world - which government exits peacefully?

Exactly. The current regime and its supporters will NEVER go peacefully and it wouldn't matter if the majority demanded it.

I'm probably already somewhere in PRISM. I guess I have to go martyr myself now otherwise I'm not really "serious".

[Rumred]

Exactly. The current regime and its supporters will NEVER go peacefully and it wouldn't matter if the majority demanded it.

I'm probably already somewhere in PRISM. I guess I have to go martyr myself now otherwise I'm not really "serious".

Hell doing something like get involved in a movement or hell even local politics would be a start. Better then sitting in your home and saying you wont do anything :/

[Killadrix]

I feel like the definition of "hero" as changed over the years...

[Arcanist]

Why are you intolerant of mine? I am just asking why you are still here when you said you were gonna leave the thread and country. I also love how the people who hate the US military and government are the first to bring up the "they fought for my free speech"Am i stopping you? no i am not but i have just as much right to tell you to shut up if i wish since its a two way street.

No, they bring up "they fought for my freedoms!" because many of the people who fought are ready to get violent with you the moment you question their actions and motives. It's hypocritical.

[Gospels]

So if the stuff he released is so mild, then why is he facing a century in a cage?

I'm so embarrassed to be a merican because this fucking country is a problem worldwide. Fucking oppressive warfare/surveillance/coporatist state.

We are not so oppressive that you can't move. Yeah, didn't think you hated it that much huh

[Rumred]

No, they bring up "they fought for my freedoms!" because many of the people who fought are ready to get violent with you the moment you question their actions and motives. It's hypocritical.

That's because they are being questioned by someone who has never been in the situation they have and who feel entitled to be able to insult them.

[Kellhound]

No, they bring up "they fought for my freedoms!" because many of the people who fought are ready to get violent with you the moment you question their actions and motives. It's hypocritical.

I fought for the ideals enshrined in our founding documents, for that is the heart of the state. The government is nebulus and changable, the Constitution far less so.

[Mayhem]

Hell doing something like get involved in a movement or hell even local politics would be a start. Better then sitting in your home and saying you wont do anything :/

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...--holes-wanted

well

[Orbitus]

I'm just gonna step out of this thread because it's generating rage within me, and it's not worth feeling.

I will just work on trying to emigrate to Canada or some other civilized country, while certainly hoping for the worst for barbaric america.

So you don't like what happened we get it. But saying something barbaric happens to America? We don't want you then. You certainly aren't very patriotic with that statement. Would you like it if I said "I hope you end up in a car accident for saying something like that?" I bet not. Asking for some other attack or major catastrophy isn't something you should wish on ANYONE. Even someone as cold and heartless as North Korea and their leaders.

[Arcanist]

We are not so oppressive that you can't move. Yeah, didn't think you hated it that much huh

Working on it.

[Kellhound]

Exactly. The current regime and its supporters will NEVER go peacefully and it wouldn't matter if the majority demanded it.

I'm probably already somewhere in PRISM. I guess I have to go martyr myself now otherwise I'm not really "serious".

I find it funny you cannot think of any ways to effect change short of your own death.

[Arcanist]

That's because they are being questioned by someone who has never been in the situation they have and who feel entitled to be able to insult them.

They put themselves in that situation voluntarily.

- - - Updated - - -

I fought for the ideals enshrined in our founding documents, for that is the heart of the state. The government is nebulus and changable, the Constitution far less so.

Did you? Thanks for PRISM and the NSA.

- - - Updated - - -

So you don't like what happened we get it. But saying something barbaric happens to America? We don't want you then. You certainly aren't very patriotic with that statement. Would you like it if I said "I hope you end up in a car accident for saying something like that?" I bet not. Asking for some other attack or major catastrophy isn't something you should wish on ANYONE. Even someone as cold and heartless as North Korea and their leaders.

America needs to finally take what it dished out so generously to other countries for decades. Maybe then, they're be less desire to constantly intervene.

- - - Updated - - -

I find it funny you cannot think of any ways to effect change short of your own death.

Change within the system is futile, as has already been explained.

[Bakis]

This says it all.

“The government’s priorities are upside down. The US government has refused to investigate credible allegations of torture and other crimes under international law despite overwhelming evidence.

“Yet they decided to prosecute Manning who it seems was trying to do the right thing – reveal credible evidence of unlawful behaviour by the government. You investigate and prosecute those who destroy the credibility of the government by engaging in acts such as torture which are prohibited under the US Constitution and in international law.”

[Orbitus]

I feel like the definition of "hero" as changed over the years...

You would define him as a hero? Simply because he leaked all the video of the bombing? What about the rest of the quarter of a million classified documents? What if you were an agent in say the CIA and he just blew your cover because you were in those documents listed? Would he still be classified as a hero to you? He put people in harms way. Now if he would have just leaked the video and all the information pertaining to that, that might be a 'hero' move and classified as a whistleblower instead of a traiter.