gamer trolls harming game development

[Deleted]

Does it need to be explained? Like, I'm not sure what's mysterious or confusing about them. Having hundreds of people threaten you and your family with graphic acts of violence is kinda beyond the realm of not ok and into the realm of absolutely disgusting behavior.

I don't see what's unclear about being upset over harassment and death threats...

Angry teenagers saying nasty things because of a video game. Has anyone who made an anonymous death threat because of a video game ever done anything to actually harm the person they threatened? It's as if people are actually afraid of the 15y olds that get mad over video games, as if they're going to do anything but talk.

[zealo]

Oh and P.S. Yes you can grow a thicker skin. It involves becoming hardened. It requires you to endure, rather than react.

Even if i agree you should grow a thicker skin in some cases, there's still a difference between telling someone he sucks with a few curses and saying you will rape them and murder their children on their way home from school. There is a lot of phsycopaths out there that would actually be capable to do such a thing, which means anything that even comes close to threats of violence should be treated differently then a few curses from a random guy on the web.

[Vespian]

Even if i agree you should grow a thicker skin in some cases, there's still a difference between telling someone he sucks with a few curses and saying you will rape them and murder their children on their way home from school. There is a lot of phsycopaths out there that would actually be capable to do such a thing, which means anything that even comes close to threats of violence should be treated differently then a few curses from a random guy on the web.

As I said, report, arrest, jailtime. But it should not affect you, the target, more than just shallow. That's my point. It's not OK to do it, but it can't be prevented. The truth is, nothing will happen most likely, so shrug it off and live with it or stop looking at the internet.

[Solitare-sp]

As I said, report, arrest, jailtime. But it should not affect you, the target, more than just shallow. That's my point. It's not OK to do it, but it can't be prevented. The truth is, nothing will happen most likely, so shrug it off and live with it or stop looking at the internet.

Would have loved being back in 60's in the southern US with that attitude.. 'you know what black's...just go on another bus or to another restaurant.. just shrug and move on..' Nothing much you can do, it's just white town after all...

There is something you can do. Stand up and say it's not ok. Be responsible for your own actions and words first and foremost and then when people do something unacceptable, call them out on it. Maybe you're right, maybe it won't work, maybe 'that's just the way it is' but it doesn't mean we have to accept it.

[Vespian]

Would have loved being back in 60's in the southern US with that attitude.. 'you know what black's...just go on another bus or to another restaurant.. just shrug and move on..' Nothing much you can do, it's just white town after all...

There is something you can do. Stand up and say it's not ok. Be responsible for your own actions and words first and foremost and then when people do something unacceptable, call them out on it. Maybe you're right, maybe it won't work, maybe 'that's just the way it is' but it doesn't mean we have to accept it.

WOOOOOOOOOOW..WOW WOW WOW. WTF?

W
T
F?

Suddenly this is about racism? I would have hated being back in the 60's. Because I'm not a racist. I don't care whether you're blue, black, white, purple, yellow, green, confetti. I don't care. The only colors I don't like are the ones s on a clowns face. Actually, I like my women slightly mixed blood. Hope you don't mind.

But this isn't about racism, this is about global law. There are no states on the internet. There are no countries, on the internet. There are no police on the internet. So before we start arresting every fucking body that says nasty things on the internet, start looking at reality. This is not an issue that can be solved by politics. This is about mentality. And that's the problem. Public mentality, like racism, is easy to thumb down once law enforces it. Anonymous mentality that hasn't got anyone looking over a shoulder can't be rooted out. In fact, this issue persists in todays racism (since we're talking about that) through small splintergroups of old racist parties, like the nazi's, like the KKK. It's hard to deal with the things you can't see and in the case of the internet, it's hard to deal with the distinction between real and emo-raging from some kid.

There are no Harrison Fords (movie : 42) that silently though persistently root out evil.

EDit: Unsure whether you meant me as the black man or me as the white racist, but I assumed the bad side. That way you can say you didn't mean it the way I read it

[Dasffion]

WOOOOOOOOOOW..WOW WOW WOW. WTF?

W
T
F?

Suddenly this is about racism? I would have hated being back in the 60's. Because I'm not a racist. I don't care whether you're blue, black, white, purple, yellow, green, confetti. I don't care. The only colors I don't like are the ones s on a clowns face. Actually, I like my women slightly mixed blood. Hope you don't mind.

But this isn't about racism, this is about global law. There are no states on the internet. There are no countries, on the internet. There are no police on the internet. So before we start arresting every fucking body that says nasty things on the internet, start looking at reality. This is not an issue that can be solved by politics. This is about mentality. And that's the problem. Public mentality, like racism, is easy to thumb down once law enforces it. Anonymous mentality that hasn't got anyone looking over a shoulder can't be rooted out. In fact, this issue persists in todays racism (since we're talking about that) through small splintergroups of old racist parties, like the nazi's, like the KKK. It's hard to deal with the things you can't see and in the case of the internet, it's hard to deal with the distinction between real and emo-raging from some kid.

There are no Harrison Fords (movie : 42) that silently though persistently root out evil.

EDit: Unsure whether you meant me as the black man or me as the white racist, but I assumed the bad side. That way you can say you didn't mean it the way I read it

You do know what an analogy is right? He's not saying that you're racist, he's making a comparison, and a pretty apt one. "There's nothing we can do about it" is the attitude that keeps this kind of thing in place.

[Edge-]

Angry teenagers saying nasty things because of a video game. Has anyone who made an anonymous death threat because of a video game ever done anything to actually harm the person they threatened? It's as if people are actually afraid of the 15y olds that get mad over video games, as if they're going to do anything but talk.

Again, are you seriously trying to justify the persistent, sustained harassment by saying, "It's just the internet and they're just kidding."?

Nobody deserves to be harassed anywhere. Ever. I don't give a single fuck if "they're just kids and will never carry out those threats", nobody deserves to have their lives or the lives of their family threatened for any reason, regardless of the ability of the one threatening to "make good" on his/her threats. I can't honestly believe I'm having this conversation.

Is it fine for a group of kids at school to verbally harass another kid on a daily basis? To berate him from the time he wakes up in the morning with texts and calls, to face to face verbal abuse at school, and then till he goes to sleep that night? I mean, they're not carrying out any of their threats and they're just kids saying words, so it should be fine, right?

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You do know what an analogy is right? He's not saying that you're racist, he's making a comparison, and a pretty apt one. "There's nothing we can do about it" is the attitude that keeps this kind of thing in place.

This so hard. There needs to be discussions, and there needs to be some kind of action taken somehow. We can't simply sit here and say, "Well, guess we can't do anything to stop it so whatevs."

[Invictus9001]

Death threats and threats against your family aren't just trolling. Teenage scumbags need to realise saying such things doesn't constitute free speech nor is it acceptable. They also need to have a lead pipe go upside their heads.

Agreed ^

There's a difference between having a valid counterpoint opinion, and just hurling threats of violence against people. Parents need to teach that difference to their kids before some member of law-enforcement rams down the kid's door and hauls him/her off in cuffs.

[Vespian]

You do know what an analogy is right? He's not saying that you're racist, he's making a comparison, and a pretty apt one. "There's nothing we can do about it" is the attitude that keeps this kind of thing in place.

edit: It's not very apt, because I explained in my response why it isn't.

Fact of the matter, sorry Edge, is that we can't stop it. Period. Enforcing a law that prevents this will go WAY beyond X-Men Mutant registration. It will be like the NSA is no longer scanning and raiding you for being a terrorist, but for being a ****.

We can't prevent it, we can only punish it. So I'm all in favour (raises both hands) of making these kind of acts criminal and letting these cases be handled by criminal law. But there's a limit, because the internet is limitless.

[Dasffion]

edit: It's not very apt, because I explained in my response why it isn't.

Fact of the matter, sorry Edge, is that we can't stop it. Period. Enforcing a law that prevents this will go WAY beyond X-Men Mutant registration. It will be like the NSA is no longer scanning and raiding you for being a terrorist, but for being a ****.

We can't prevent it, we can only punish it. So I'm all in favour (raises both hands) of making these kind of acts criminal and letting these cases be handled by criminal law. But there's a limit, because the internet is limitless.

Your explanation didn't make any sense because it completely ignored what you were responding to. If people had said in the 60s there's nothing that can be done about racism and people should just ignore it then we never would have had a civil rights movement. For years before people DID have that attitude and things didn't change, or if they did it didn't change much. Things will never change as long as the majority of people have the attitude of "We can't change it, why try".

You're correct that we can't change people's personal beliefs, there are still racist people around today. What we can change is how society views those people. Racism isn't socially acceptable anymore and people as a whole don't tolerate it. Look at Big Brother in the US this season, 2 people have lost their jobs and another is likely to lose his for making racist comments on national television. We didn't get to this point of intolerance of bigotry by ignoring the problem.

[Vespian]

Your explanation didn't make any sense because it completely ignored what you were responding to. If people had said in the 60s there's nothing that can be done about racism and people should just ignore it then we never would have had a civil rights movement. For years before people DID have that attitude and things didn't change, or if they did it didn't change much. Things will never change as long as the majority of people have the attitude of "We can't change it, why try".

You're correct that we can't change people's personal beliefs, there are still racist people around today. What we can change is how society views those people. Racism isn't socially acceptable anymore and people as a whole don't tolerate it. Look at Big Brother in the US this season, 2 people have lost their jobs and another is likely to lose his for making racist comments on national television. We didn't get to this point of intolerance of bigotry by ignoring the problem.

I said exactly this you know. It's impossible. IMPOSSIBRUH. And I stated why. Just because you ignored it doesn't mean I did. Society might not accept it, but society isn't looking over my shoulders while I'm typing this. Do you understand the APT difference?

[Dasffion]

I said exactly this you know. It's impossible. IMPOSSIBRUH. And I stated why. Just because you ignored it doesn't mean I did. Society might not accept it, but society isn't looking over my shoulders while I'm typing this. Do you understand the APT difference?

It's impossible huh? So we have the same view on Racism today as we did back in the 60s? No we don't. I didn't ignore what you said, I said what you said was wrong. You talk about mentality and that's what I'm saying the problem is. It's YOUR mentality of this is acceptable behavior because we can't change what people do. As long as people like you are willing to put up with people like that you're enabling them to keep on acting like that.

[Vespian]

It's impossible huh? So we have the same view on Racism today as we did back in the 60s? No we don't. I didn't ignore what you said, I said what you said was wrong. You talk about mentality and that's what I'm saying the problem is. It's YOUR mentality of this is acceptable behavior because we can't change what people do. As long as people like you are willing to put up with people like that you're enabling them to keep on acting like that.

OMG... I wish I could agree with you, but what you are explaining, how society looks at it. It doesn't just go away. Public opinion has to change publicly. Racism changed because it changed publicly. People started to treat Black people like people, in public. Because public means making a statement.

Racism and internet bullying are actually very bad comparisons. A better comparison would be Domestic violence and internet bullying. Both are hidden. Both can stay hidden due to both being anonymous. Yet both are shunned by the public. For good reasons.

There is a law, that Domestic Violence isn't allowed. But the law doesn't apply until someone notices and reports. And then it's still a case of not guilty until proven guilty. The same could apply to Internet Bullying, with one major exception. Domestic Violence leaves marks. Internet bullying leaves no marks. NONE.

So while I support your fiction in my wishes, I am a realist that lives in this world. In contrary to you, I don't date with fairies (sorry lads, no pun) and my bank account isn't managed by Dwarves. It's people, in a world that can only change that which it can identify.

The only way to identify internet bullying, is by going NSA on EVERYBODY.

Good luck with your crusade, arresting every 10 year old with a handheld, because they threatened to kill your mother.

[Dasffion]

NM, it's not even worth the argument. You're willing to continue to perpetuate the problem because of misguided views, whatever. It's worth pointing out though that plenty of people thought they were realists and thought that the civil rights movement would never go anywhere. Stay in your box though.

[Vespian]

So you're just willing to perpetuate the problem because of some misguided view that since it's on the internet it can't be changed. You're a wonderful human being.

No, you're just a very dreamy human being. That's fine. Just don't pretend I disagree with you. Because I don't.

Tell me, how are we going to fix it? Education? Raising our kids better? More punishment, less dinner, more spanking? Don't allow them to use the internet? Always speak with 2 words? That's going to fix your problem?.

I have by now explained enough of the reasons why it can't and you have repeatedly LOL BRAH'd at me for it, but so far I see little coming from you that counters the facts I presented to you.

Strange how all misguided people keep making good points that you can't seem to counter with your own. Truly, your Biblish world must look green.

[Deleted]

Nobody deserves to be harassed anywhere. Ever. I don't give a single fuck if "they're just kids and will never carry out those threats", nobody deserves to have their lives or the lives of their family threatened for any reason, regardless of the ability of the one threatening to "make good" on his/her threats. I can't honestly believe I'm having this conversation.

Is it fine for a group of kids at school to verbally harass another kid on a daily basis? To berate him from the time he wakes up in the morning with texts and calls, to face to face verbal abuse at school, and then till he goes to sleep that night? I mean, they're not carrying out any of their threats and they're just kids saying words, so it should be fine, right?

You're comparing irl threats and harassment from people you meet on a daily basis to reading messages from internet? Seriously?
People deserving or not deserving threats is irrelevant because it's inevitable when a public figure makes any comment on a public forum. In any case internet harassment from anonymous trolls get mute/ignore treatment and the harassment from that account stops. "Persistent sustained harassment" sustained by the person being harassed coz he can't do absolutely anything about it like, idk, close the webpage. I give you that a lot of people hating you can stress but you have all the power to walk away from it because it doesn't happen irl.

[Dasffion]

No, you're just a very dreamy human being. That's fine. Just don't pretend I disagree with you. Because I don't.

Tell me, how are we going to fix it? Education? Raising our kids better? More punishment, less dinner, more spanking? Don't allow them to use the internet? Always speak with 2 words? That's going to fix your problem?.

I have by now explained enough of the reasons why it can't and you have repeatedly LOL BRAH'd at me for it, but so far I see little coming from you that counters the facts I presented to you.

It starts with speaking out against it. Not just saying "It's going to happen what are you going to do" like you and some others in this thread have done. If you don't see the counters then you're not reading or you're ignoring them. Given you're responses I'm going to guess ignoring.

All those things you mentioned are also great ways to start fixing the problem and yes, it will in time fix it. Your repsonses seem to imply that you think this is something that can be fixed overnight, or that we think it can, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. It is a problem that will take time to fix but it's never going to go anywhere as long as people live in a box and say it can never change.

[Speedlance]

I think forums is the biggest influence in the creation of trolls, if you removed forums and comment sections problem would be solved. I stopped using facebook because I realized how stupid the friends I got added actually are, imagine how stupid they are when they're anonymous on a forum somewhere....

[Edge-]

You're comparing irl threats and harassment from people you meet on a daily basis to reading messages from internet? Seriously?

Not a direct comparison, but it's close enough. Neither group is carrying it out, and with anonymity there is the concern that there is someone who knows where you live and does live nearby you.

People deserving or not deserving threats is irrelevant because it's inevitable when a public figure makes any comment on a public forum.

Again, nobody deserves to be threatened or harassed. Not to mention that it shouldn't be inevitable and we should be trying to figure out how to make it that way.

In any case internet harassment from anonymous trolls get mute/ignore treatment and the harassment from that account stops. "Persistent sustained harassment" sustained by the person being harassed coz he can't do absolutely anything about it like, idk, close the webpage.

So these people should spend huge amounts of time blocking thousands and thousands of people from their social media accounts? Especially when those blocked can simply make a new one and continue? Or they should just close down the social media accounts they use for their jobs or private life?

Both those "solutions" are shit.

I give you that a lot of people hating you can stress but you have all the power to walk away from it because it doesn't happen irl.

When you need to have a public social media account for your job, you can't just "walk away" like that. If you "walk away", you're quitting your job. That's kinda not an acceptable "solution" either.

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I think forums is the biggest influence in the creation of trolls, if you removed forums and comment sections problem would be solved. I stopped using facebook because I realized how stupid the friends I got added actually are, imagine how stupid they are when they're anonymous on a forum somewhere....

This is via social media, not just forums. And removing all communication on the part of developers and its employees is a horrible idea as it would leave gamers in the dark except for the announcements reported at gaming news sites.

[Vespian]

It starts with speaking out against it. Not just saying "It's going to happen what are you going to do" like you and some others in this thread have done. If you don't see the counters then you're not reading or you're ignoring them. Given you're responses I'm going to guess ignoring.

All those things you mentioned are also great ways to start fixing the problem and yes, it will in time fix it. Your repsonses seem to imply that you think this is something that can be fixed overnight, or that we think it can, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. It is a problem that will take time to fix but it's never going to go anywhere as long as people live in a box and say it can never change.

Right, so I'm going to go out on the streets and wave my flag, with a hundred others and every single fucking body in the world is automatically going to do something. Right? Like they do for Femen, Like they do for Fanatic Animal Rights groups. Not even Green Peace, an organization that's making more money than the average quote 100 company has ever been able to stop animal abuse and killing. Because most of it is hidden.

You can't go out on the streets and protest, when you're not protesting against or for a public social problem. People out in the streets, they think their kids are saints. Their kids would never do that on the internet. Go talk to teachers, my sister is one. Parents refuse to see that their kids aren't special (in the good sense).

So, you think you're going to be able to stop me from insulting someone on the internet because you're parading around with your flags and papers and pamphlets? You think anyone in the world gives a fuck about your online social problems while there's still cancer to beat? While Africa is still dying to aids? while there is still racism to fight?

Actual threats!

Out of a 1000 people making threats on the internet, only a pointpercent might go through with it. Raising awareness is a good thing, but just like incest, just like rape, just like childabuse, just like pedophily, it's hidden crime. You can't fix it by protesting.

And I agree, a good education and parenting might help solve this issue. But the problem is not public, so mom and dad, they don't know what their kids do on the internet. They can't counter bad behaviour. They can only instill fear of the Devil and the believe in God. That's you make your sheep follow you. By fear. Well, make them fear the devil then. Who knows.