so massive demo nerf, slight aff nerf, destro buff

[Deleted]

Blizzard knows their game, you really think they dont monitor uvls and shit like that? They dont need to read forums... they have tools to observe how people play in blizzard realms.

also, blizzard knows how people scale about in future gears. It is entirely possible they didnt foresee something and now warlock was nerfed.

[Jessicka]

Blizzard knows their game, you really think they dont monitor uvls and shit like that? They dont need to read forums... they have tools to observe how people play in blizzard realms.

also, blizzard knows how people scale about in future gears. It is entirely possible they didnt foresee something and now warlock was nerfed.

It is exactly something they didn't forsee, and has taken months for them to pick up on because it wasn't producing results that were excessively outlying. It was propping the spec up, but clearly not to a degree that their data was showing needed further investigation. Now they decided it is overpowered, largely due to the new encounters design, one has to wonder where the spec will fall with that leg removed. We already knew that without the trinket the spec was decent, but not excessive from those who took a long time to get hold of that trinket; but then they nerfed the spec as well - because they openly said they didn't know how much was trinket and how much was spec.

Now in all honesty, I welcome the nerf to the trinket because the spec plays better and is less frustrating toward RNG without it; but the damage loss is really quite significant through the trinket change alone.

[Deleted]

I dont see any damage nerf while leveling, lvl 71 now.

[Deleted]

I dont see any damage nerf while leveling, lvl 71 now.

That's usefull to know..

[Badahs]

What if I told you that Blizzard does this on purpose? What if they buff and nerf various classes and specs randomly so that we become more passionate about the game? This way we stay interested, look through every single change with a microscope, create insanely powerful simulation programs to determine the effects of the change, write endless tirades on forums, review endless websites and keep calling Blizzard a bunch of idiots who have no clue what they are doing.....all the while Blizzards just keeps raking in the cash.

Welcome to corporate America folks

[FurtyIRL]

It is exactly something they didn't forsee, and has taken months for them to pick up on because it wasn't producing results that were excessively outlying. It was propping the spec up, but clearly not to a degree that their data was showing needed further investigation. Now they decided it is overpowered, largely due to the new encounters design, one has to wonder where the spec will fall with that leg removed. We already knew that without the trinket the spec was decent, but not excessive from those who took a long time to get hold of that trinket; but then they nerfed the spec as well - because they openly said they didn't know how much was trinket and how much was spec.

Now in all honesty, I welcome the nerf to the trinket because the spec plays better and is less frustrating toward RNG without it; but the damage loss is really quite significant through the trinket change alone.

In some ways I welcome the change but I really did enjoy that RNG. A good demo lock could put up great numbers with any pattern of procs last tier, but when you had those attempts where everything just lined up perfect there was really nothing like it. The playstyle required you to be on your toes at all times and rewarded fluid execution. Demo without UVLS or imps just seems like shadowbolts to me.

That said I never expected them to let that trinket survive the tier ... but it's not without a little regret that I'm waving goodbye to possibly the most fun spec I've ever played.

[Jessicka]

In some ways I welcome the change but I really did enjoy that RNG. A good demo lock could put up great numbers with any pattern of procs last tier, but when you had those attempts where everything just lined up perfect there was really nothing like it. The playstyle required you to be on your toes at all times and rewarded fluid execution. Demo without UVLS or imps just seems like shadowbolts to me.

That said I never expected them to let that trinket survive the tier ... but it's not without a little regret that I'm waving goodbye to possibly the most fun spec I've ever played.

I just don't think that's true. I'm paying attention to both trinkets and my weapon enchant now as well as the strength of Doom on Affdots, with UVLS, UVLS is all that really matters and your whole play revolves around being able to Meta and cast Doom the moment it procs.

[DeadmanWalking]

What if I told you that Blizzard does this on purpose? What if they buff and nerf various classes and specs randomly so that we become more passionate about the game? This way we stay interested, look through every single change with a microscope, create insanely powerful simulation programs to determine the effects of the change, write endless tirades on forums, review endless websites and keep calling Blizzard a bunch of idiots who have no clue what they are doing.....all the while Blizzards just keeps raking in the cash.

Welcome to corporate America folks

This is a thread about nerfs to demonology, I would appreciate it if you managed to stay on topic and stop trying to pass your paranoid anti-corporation rants onto us. The hypocrisy of someone using a computer created by a corporation bitching on the internet which is created and supplied by corporations is truly laughable. What are you even doing here? Shouldn’t you be on a pig farm with burlap sacks on your feet reading a hand written book by pig fat candle light?

As if you expected Blizzard to be someone who works out of their garage. You lost everyone when you implied they change stuff willy nilly, we’re not stupid enough to believe this. They felt the change was needed and we are trying to say that nerfing the trinket would of done the trick, nerfing the imps was heavy handed and a kick in the balls.

[FurtyIRL]

I just don't think that's true. I'm paying attention to both trinkets and my weapon enchant now as well as the strength of Doom on Affdots, with UVLS, UVLS is all that really matters and your whole play revolves around being able to Meta and cast Doom the moment it procs.

That's just expected optimization of any dot class, don't really see how that makes it anymore interesting. Sure re-applying your crit dooms was top priority but that's not what made it interesting. It was more of the effective playstyle having constant imps and fury was able to provide — the spec is considerably more passive now.

And just an extra note — if you weren't paying attention to both your trinkets and weapon enchants before to meta weave, you were doing something seriously, seriously wrong.

[Jessicka]

That's just expected optimization of any dot class, don't really see how that makes it anymore interesting. Sure re-applying your crit dooms was top priority but that's not what made it interesting. It was more of the effective playstyle having constant imps and fury was able to provide — the spec is considerably more passive now.

And just an extra note — if you weren't paying attention to both your trinkets and weapon enchants before to meta weave, you were doing something seriously, seriously wrong.

Yeah, trinket procs weren't even tertiary to UVLS and Shadowflame stacks for Meta weaving. Endless Fury and being carried by Imps made the spec much more passive I feel. I guess that's subjective though, it's just something I felt after a couple of fights after having dropped it - losing that feeling of frustration every time the trinket procced at the wrong moment or failing to proc at all and being able to look at other parts of my UI was pretty liberating, albeit very disheartening after a glance at the damage meter. :|

[FurtyIRL]

Yeah, trinket procs weren't even tertiary to UVLS and Shadowflame stacks for Meta weaving. Endless Fury and being carried by Imps made the spec much more passive I feel. I guess that's subjective though, it's just something I felt after a couple of fights after having dropped it - losing that feeling of frustration every time the trinket procced at the wrong moment or failing to proc at all and being able to look at other parts of my UI was pretty liberating, albeit very disheartening after a glance at the damage meter. :|

What I like about that style of play was it gave the spec a very high skill cap relative to the others because it took a lot more intuition and feel than just watching your dot strengths. That's not to diminish the respect subtleties of each spec, it was just interesting to me to play something really thoroughly new and fresh.

I don't miss UVLS proccing during nuclear inferno or overwriting itself 3 times in 4 seconds and then never proccing again for the rest of the fight and so on ... truthfully though it remains probably my favorite trinket they've ever made.

[Grizelda]

I don't miss UVLS proccing during nuclear inferno or overwriting itself 3 times in 4 seconds and then never proccing again for the rest of the fight and so on ... truthfully though it remains probably my favorite trinket they've ever made.

Favorite ever? I'd give that honor to Never melting Ice Crystals. It wouldn't be the same in todays environment, but I enjoyed rolling that crit buffed Corruption.

Neither do I hate UVLS the most. The MWC days were the worst.

UVLS was love/hate. Procs on pull? I love you. Bad RNG? We hates it forever.

I don't think that Blizz can possibly see every problem on the horizon, nor can they be aware of every sneaky exploit we think up...

BUT HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE SEEN THIS ONE?! 100% crit with DOT snapshotting?

[FurtyIRL]

Favorite ever? I'd give that honor to Never melting Ice Crystals. It wouldn't be the same in todays environment, but I enjoyed rolling that crit buffed Corruption.

Neither do I hate UVLS the most. The MWC days were the worst.

UVLS was love/hate. Procs on pull? I love you. Bad RNG? We hates it forever.

I don't think that Blizz can possibly see every problem on the horizon, nor can they be aware of every sneaky exploit we think up...

BUT HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE SEEN THIS ONE?! 100% crit with DOT snapshotting?

Well maybe favorite modern trinket ... restrained essence of saph/neltharion's tear still have special places and DBW was neat when I dabbled with melee ...

but I have to say there hasn't really ever been a trinket with such a huge impact on a spec's performance or playstyle. I probably had more time than most to goof around with it on farm though.

And ikr blizz pulling their typical shortsightedness ..

[Jessicka]

What I like about that style of play was it gave the spec a very high skill cap relative to the others because it took a lot more intuition and feel than just watching your dot strengths. That's not to diminish the respect subtleties of each spec, it was just interesting to me to play something really thoroughly new and fresh.

Sure, it was new and I did for a time think a baseline mechanic similar to it with a hidden stacking proc chance like Nightfall for Affliction rather than the complete RNG is currently has could offer interesting gameplay. I'm not sure how I'd feel about that now playing without it again feels fresh and new.

I don't miss UVLS proccing during nuclear inferno or overwriting itself 3 times in 4 seconds and then never proccing again for the rest of the fight and so on ... truthfully though it remains probably my favorite trinket they've ever made.

Truthfully I'm not a big fan of trinkets that cause such a drastic impact on gameplay; they're okay to keep things fresh but there comes a point like this and MWC when you end up a bit too reliant on them to the point where it feels like it's the trinket rather than the player doing the work.

[Viledead]

Demo has taken an unbelievable beating over the past short while. Demo locks weren't destroying meters either. They just decided they wanted to completely change the playstyle in a combination of 5.4 and a ridiculous hotfix a couple weeks later.

The worst part is that this was in a hotfix - if it was in 5.4 then it would have been possible to be more accepting and prepare differently as well as plan gear differently. Instead, we saw other nerfs.

fel armor nerf (10% damage reduction)
Fel flame/void ray don't increase duration of corruption
KJC essentially removed as option
Everlasting affliction removed
hellfire/immo aura nerfed 20%

For all this we saw corruption damage increased by 10%, darksoul increase of 30%, and fel flame damage (at a price).

GG Demo, one of the best specs to play in the game. This is actually the only time I've ever debated quitting the game because of Blizz actions. Demo is a lot less fun now. And we're learning that Blizz's search for "fun" is misplaced.

[Deleted]

I though demo was fun spec, i tried it in ptr and decided to level warlock. It is the best class/spec i have ever played.

[Gihelle]

Only logical explanation for this nerf is, that warlock scaled too well with newest tier.

Yeah, using a trinket from last tier means they're scalling too well with this tier. x_x

[Badahs]

This is a thread about nerfs to demonology, I would appreciate it if you managed to stay on topic and stop trying to pass your paranoid anti-corporation rants onto us. The hypocrisy of someone using a computer created by a corporation bitching on the internet which is created and supplied by corporations is truly laughable. What are you even doing here? Shouldn’t you be on a pig farm with burlap sacks on your feet reading a hand written book by pig fat candle light?

As if you expected Blizzard to be someone who works out of their garage. You lost everyone when you implied they change stuff willy nilly, we’re not stupid enough to believe this. They felt the change was needed and we are trying to say that nerfing the trinket would of done the trick, nerfing the imps was heavy handed and a kick in the balls.

I think it's sort of funny that you imply that Blizzard knows exactly what it's doing, that it has a rational reason for doing so and in the same paragraph you state that the nerf to imps was "heavy handed and a kick in the balls". Can't have both buddy. Either they know what they are doing, in which case the nerf was exactly what was needed or they don't and they change stuff "willy nilly".

Welcome to rational thinking. You should try it next time instead of personal insults based on a post that was obviously a joke.

- - - Updated - - -

And just an extra note — if you weren't paying attention to both your trinkets and weapon enchants before to meta weave, you were doing something seriously, seriously wrong.

My biggest problem with this was trinket procs vs shadow flame weaving. The worst case scenario being a shadowflame weave and uvls procs right after while meta is on cd. The only other option was to stay in meta until the cd wore out and you ended up wasting fury at non optimal times.

The problem with the trinket in general was that if you had it you were golden and if you didn't, gluck trying to compete. I believe that it was a much bigger dps increase than any of the legendaries. It did also introduce a much higher skill cap, especially on multi target. Tracking multiple rolling crit dooms to ensure you don't overwrite anything while at the same time making sure corruption stays up, you are watching procs and shadowflame weaving while popping in and out of meta seems to be a much higher level of awareness than what most other classes have to deal with. Fun times but wish I had the tf hm version instead of the normal/normal.

[dirkhudsucker]

affliction does a great job in 1-target combat,ranking 1 of all talents.

[DeadmanWalking]

I think it's sort of funny that you imply that Blizzard knows exactly what it's doing, that it has a rational reason for doing so and in the same paragraph you state that the nerf to imps was "heavy handed and a kick in the balls". Can't have both buddy. Either they know what they are doing, in which case the nerf was exactly what was needed or they don't and they change stuff "willy nilly".

Welcome to rational thinking. You should try it next time instead of personal insults based on a post that was obviously a joke.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you learn to comprehend what you read, I never said they had a rational reason for anything. I said “They felt the change was needed”. Just because they felt it was needed does not mean they were rational about it. They may of rationalized that the nerf was needed but being ‘Rational’ and ‘rationalizing’ are two entirely different things. Hitler wasn’t rational about genocide but he certainly rationalized it, that even though what he did was evil he thought he was doing it for a good reason.

Now that we know you know how to read you need to work on the comprehending what you read part.