Sargeras vs Old Gods

[Aleksej89]

The amount of people failing their lore - and then posting with conviction - is too damn high...

The main reason titans won the war against the old gods is that the old gods were also warring between each other - and they have never prepared their kingdoms for such a planetary defense, since they have been warring between each other for millenia instead of cooperatively building defenses and armies.

But when comparing raw power, the Old Gods are vastly more powerful than the Titans - they just lack the military organization and cooperation to successfully win a planetary war, while the Titans are a very disciplined very militaristic organization.

Just take a look at the lore sources - sargeras got wounded by a time traveling orc wielding a wooden axe, and he also got easily corrupted by the nathrezim.
Titans are strong - but they are incredibly susceptible to corruption and they are also rather easy to wound, even by mortal hands.

[kriimsilm]

I know that Titans were NOT created by Old Gods as someone said in this thread.

But as it is wrong it is also not relevant. The fact that one is created by someone does not mean it is weaker than the creator.
A child can grow stronger than its father.

In other mythologies it is not uncommon that the creation kills the creator and takes over.


As of the poll. I really do not know.
But if i had to choose, I say Old God (in full power, not a sleep, not prisoned)

[Itisamuh]

Well considering one Old God is stronger than one Titan...Sargeras would have absolutely no chance against all of them.

[Aquamonkey]

The amount of people failing their lore - and then posting with conviction - is too damn high...

The main reason titans won the war against the old gods is that the old gods were also warring between each other - and they have never prepared their kingdoms for such a planetary defense, since they have been warring between each other for millenia instead of cooperatively building defenses and armies.

But when comparing raw power, the Old Gods are vastly more powerful than the Titans - they just lack the military organization and cooperation to successfully win a planetary war, while the Titans are a very disciplined very militaristic organization.

Just take a look at the lore sources - sargeras got wounded by a time traveling orc wielding a wooden axe, and he also got easily corrupted by the nathrezim.
Titans are strong - but they are incredibly susceptible to corruption and they are also rather easy to wound, even by mortal hands.

The ax was enchanted by a demigod with the magic of Kalimdor and barely scratched Sargeras. Then when Krasus poured the power of multiple aspects into that "weak spot," it didn't even cause Sargeras pain.

Brox's ax. Impossible as it seemed, the enchanted weapon had scratched Sargeras. Not enough to cause him any real harm, of course, but that a wound existed at all opened up a unique possibility.
...
In comparison to Sargeras, both Archimonde and Mannoroth were as fleas. The power of a hundred dragons would have been as nothing to him. Had Krasus sought to strike Sargeras directly, either in the chest or head, the results would have been laughable, at least to the demon lord. That Brox had managed his miraculous attack at all said much for the power imbued in the weapon by the druid and his shan'do.
No, instead, the mage poured all that he was given by the others at the tiny, insignificant wound Brox's ax—a piece of Kalimdor's magic itself—had managed.
And then it happened. Krasus sensed Sargeras's concentration weaken just for a moment. Not from pain—that would have been too much hope for—but rather, simply from startlement.
--The Sundering

[Itakas]

Hard one rly, since there is too little lore about titans / old gods. Think it comes down to who do you rly like more, since there is not real clue to who is stronger, i based my vote on Algalon and the fact he had a choice to wipe out all life on Azeroth, so if he could have done it, guess titans should be able to do it also and wiping all life form on Azeroth would include old gods i guess.

The amount of people failing their lore - and then posting with conviction - is too damn high...

The main reason titans won the war against the old gods is that the old gods were also warring between each other - and they have never prepared their kingdoms for such a planetary defense, since they have been warring between each other for millenia instead of cooperatively building defenses and armies.

But when comparing raw power, the Old Gods are vastly more powerful than the Titans - they just lack the military organization and cooperation to successfully win a planetary war, while the Titans are a very disciplined very militaristic organization.

Just take a look at the lore sources - sargeras got wounded by a time traveling orc wielding a wooden axe, and he also got easily corrupted by the nathrezim.
Titans are strong - but they are incredibly susceptible to corruption and they are also rather easy to wound, even by mortal hands.

And some random heroes of Azeroth wooped 2 old gods ass, so go figure. Btw that axe was quite bad ass enchanted, wasnt just a piece of rock tied to a stick.

[Alpharius]

If the Old Gods can attack all at the same time then Sargeras should atleast get backup by his Legioncommanders .

[LeoMi]

The old god's are parasitic life forms from someplace outside of Azeroth's reality. They don't seem to play by the same rules as other living beings from azeroth's universe. Their very presence seems to infect, and warp surrounding landscapes and beings.
In their full physical forms it took vast armies of titanic constructs (mogu, etc) alongside the titans to defeat them. Even contained they have been shown to exert their influence to try and find release. Even in "death" like Y'shaarj they are able to at least communicate and provide visions to have an affect on the world.

The titans seems to ignore the existence of the burning legion but seems to have encountered "old gods" while originating other worlds. In my opinion at least, the willingness to reoriginate planets to end an old god threat seems to show how dangerous they are if left unchecked.

[FuxieDK]

The ax was enchanted by a demigod with the magic of Kalimdor and barely scratched Sargeras. Then when Krasus poured the power of multiple aspects into that "weak spot," it didn't even cause Sargeras pain.

Brox's ax. Impossible as it seemed, the enchanted weapon had scratched Sargeras. Not enough to cause him any real harm, of course, but that a wound existed at all opened up a unique possibility.
...
In comparison to Sargeras, both Archimonde and Mannoroth were as fleas. The power of a hundred dragons would have been as nothing to him. Had Krasus sought to strike Sargeras directly, either in the chest or head, the results would have been laughable, at least to the demon lord. That Brox had managed his miraculous attack at all said much for the power imbued in the weapon by the druid and his shan'do.
No, instead, the mage poured all that he was given by the others at the tiny, insignificant wound Brox's ax—a piece of Kalimdor's magic itself—had managed.
And then it happened. Krasus sensed Sargeras's concentration weaken just for a moment. Not from pain—that would have been too much hope for—but rather, simply from startlement.
--The Sundering

Old God > Demi God... Hell, Old God > Demi God x1000...

[Deadite]

you haven't read much Old God lore, have you?

they aren't just on Azeroth. they are all across the universe. the handful we have here is just that....a handful.

We have had some speculation they are on other worlds. If that turns out to be true then it makes the Legion all the more impressive compared to the Old Gods. The Legion has destroyed countless planets. No doubt some of them had some Old Gods on them?

The Titans crushed the Old Gods and their armies. Shoved them in a prison that they are too inept to escape from millennia after the fact. Now Sargeras was their champion and people are saying an Old God could trounce him one on one? I don't see it. Sargeras vs them all? Still going to say Sargeras!! Yee hawww!

[Aquamonkey]

Old God > Demi God... Hell, Old God > Demi God x1000...

Titans aren't gods—or even demigods—and they kill Old Gods just fine. Could come back any time and kill the rest of them if they wanted to rebuild Azeroth from scratch.

[FuxieDK]

Titans aren't gods—or even demigods—and they kill Old Gods just fine. Could come back any time and kill the rest of them if they wanted to rebuild Azeroth from scratch.

It required the combined force of all the Pantheon (minus Sargeras, obviously) plus several lesser titans to kill a single Old God... And in that battle, ATLEAST one Titan died too, most likely more..

[Aquamonkey]

It required the combined force of all the Pantheon (minus Sargeras, obviously) plus several lesser titans to kill a single Old God... And in that battle, ATLEAST one Titan died too, most likely more..

The Titans were fighting with their hands tied behind their backs so as not to destroy Azeroth. If simply winning was their goal, they could have just blown the planet apart and reformed it.

Brann Bronzebeard says: Planetary re-origination? Speak plainly, ye blasted machine!
Archivum System says: The decomposition of the planet and its living organisms into base elements: metals, rocks, gases. This is followed by a period of reconstitution of each element into the original planetary blueprint.

[FuxieDK]

The Titans were fighting with their hands tied behind their backs so as not to destroy Azeroth. If simply winning was their goal, they could have just blown the planet apart and reformed it.

Brann Bronzebeard says: Planetary re-origination? Speak plainly, ye blasted machine!
Archivum System says: The decomposition of the planet and its living organisms into base elements: metals, rocks, gases. This is followed by a period of reconstitution of each element into the original planetary blueprint.

You got it backwards..

When the Titans killed an Old God, they gave everything they had.. It was only when the Old God died, they realised that killing the Old Gods, would destroy the planet, and thus they had to come up with new and better tactics, in order to imprison the rest.

Lore wise, it makes no sense, the Titans succeeded in capturing any of the Old Gods, since capture is harder than killing, a we all know, they only barely succeeded in killing a single Old God..

[Aydinx2]

Where has it been stated? I want a source from Blizzard. You mean the countless Legion fanboys have stated it? In their eyes Kil'jaeden is still a lot stronger than Deathwing, even though we defeated him 2 expansions ago. And don't even give me the poor ''he wasn't at full strength'' excuse, ofcourse he was, if anything he would be more powerful than ever sitting in the sunwell. Yes, we won because the sunwell turned against him, but we were able to resist him for so long. Kil'jaeden is a mere whelp compared to Deathwing, just as Sargeras is compared to the Old Gods' combined might.

Kil'Jaeden is still stronger than Deathwing.
The "2 expansions ago" argument doesn't matter because with that same logic you can say a lvl 86 MoP rabbit mob walking around the Jade Forest is stronger than Onyxia.

[Raiju]

You got it backwards..

When the Titans killed an Old God, they gave everything they had.. It was only when the Old God died, they realised that killing the Old Gods, would destroy the planet, and thus they had to come up with new and better tactics, in order to imprison the rest.

Lore wise, it makes no sense, the Titans succeeded in capturing any of the Old Gods, since capture is harder than killing, a we all know, they only barely succeeded in killing a single Old God..

Even before that, it would be in the titans best interests to not damage the planet while fighting the old gods.

The quote on page one makes me think old gods win, though.

[Immitis]

You got it backwards..

When the Titans killed an Old God, they gave everything they had.. It was only when the Old God died, they realised that killing the Old Gods, would destroy the planet, and thus they had to come up with new and better tactics, in order to imprison the rest.

Lore wise, it makes no sense, the Titans succeeded in capturing any of the Old Gods, since capture is harder than killing, a we all know, they only barely succeeded in killing a single Old God..

they killed loads of old gods.

theyve killed tons of them all throughout the universe, kosak confirmed this like during mists beta.

[Itakas]

Kil'Jaeden is still stronger than Deathwing.

Sry to say but think Deathwing would beat KJ quite hard if they ever went into a fight.

[Immitis]

We have had some speculation they are on other worlds

no we have confirmation, weve had confirmation for YEARS now.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Sry to say but think Deathwing would beat KJ quite hard if they ever went into a fight.

Deathwing wouldn't even touch Kil'Jaeden.

There's a reason why he is known as the Deceiver.
Plus, when we fought him, we didn't really ''fight him'', we fought his Avatar, which was STILL BEING SUMMONED, it wasn't even fully present in our planet.

[Immitis]

Just take a look at the lore sources - sargeras got wounded by a time traveling orc wielding a wooden axe, and he also got easily corrupted by the nathrezim.

they didnt literally corrupt him, he saw how evil they were (originally the eredar before the draenei retcon) and said "well shit, if the universe can make something this evil then why are we trying to contain it, lets just blow the whole thing up and start over"

a depressed person isnt corrupted by their dead family member. they are corrupted by sadness

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Deathwing wouldn't even touch Kil'Jaeden.

There's a reason why he is known as the Deceiver.
Plus, when we fought him, we didn't really ''fight him'', we fought his Avatar, which was STILL BEING SUMMONED, it wasn't even fully present in our planet.

that wasnt his avatar, it was him. if he was just coming as an avatar he wouldnt need to use the sunwell