Rogues seem to be in a good spot/boring!

[Warstar]

Forums some what dead of late. Random "How I r gud rogue" threads with a slew of other random misc. BS thrown out there. Yet... really no complaints outside of the loot frustration thread and the random sucks to level thread.

Rogues are doing great damage in a wide variety of ways, not as strong as locks but they'll get their nerfs in due time, but over all in a very strong position that raids actively recruit for rogue spots. Very strong utility and the best defenses in the game.

Compared to other forums around here rogue's seem relatively content/happy with their current lives.

It's boring! Really there aren't too many crazy things out there for rogues to do with crazy strats that rogue's are able to pull off or little neato things to get away with on a boss that no one else can. Hell, in the random blue posts on the front page there hasn't even been a single mention of rogues at all.

Are we doomed to semi boredom til beta stuff starts coming out?

[Artorius]

It's boring! Really there aren't too many crazy things out there for rogues to do with crazy strats that rogue's are able to pull off or little neato things to get away with on a boss that no one else can. Hell, in the random blue posts on the front page there hasn't even been a single mention of rogues at all.

What class are you playing?

Rogues are the most versatile ones... There aren't "crazy things" we can do? We can outsmart 90% of encounter mechanics using CoS, Feit, Vanish and Evasion...
Shadowstep can do a lot of incredible things also.
Seriously, I agree that Assassination as a spec is boring as fuck, but Combat and Subtlety are both way less easy and are much more enjoyable to play =)

[Mookes]

I think we have a lot of cool abilities actually for this xpac. Burst of speed is an awesome mechanic, alon with shurikan toss, SS, CoS, feint etc..Theres so much we can do, i'd rather be using a wide variety of spells for every encounter than doing a mind numbing 1-2-3 rotation for it.

[kilj]

Ive enjoyed my rogue this expansion...... Ya! my warrior is more fun in bgs.... But raiding still love my rogue. Minus the start up of every xpac lickin the bottom of meters cause of gear.....

[Necrotica]

What class are you playing?

Rogues are the most versatile ones... There aren't "crazy things" we can do? We can outsmart 90% of encounter mechanics using CoS, Feit, Vanish and Evasion...
Shadowstep can do a lot of incredible things also.
Seriously, I agree that Assassination as a spec is boring as fuck, but Combat and Subtlety are both way less easy and are much more enjoyable to play =)

The thing that bugs me is I can't really do combat... I shit you not when I say I cannot for the life of me get a combat weapon to drop.

[Hablion]

Rouges are Fairly Balanced at this point it seems (sure not perfect but with a game like this perfect is impossible) and all our specs can be competitive for the most part.

Assassination really is the simplest of our specs does very nice single target damage steady damage over all (Played this for the longest time myself)
Combat does fairly well Single target damage as well but excels at AoE with very nice burst (I play this currently)
Sublety has its niche as a very burst-like spec with the sacrifice of having to be behind a target and loss a lot of AoE potential (Heard it can be good but never really played sublety

I agree over all we are in a good spot.

It is sad that us Rogues are one of the lowest played classes (if i am wrong feel free to correct me) but eh its good to see some guilds are willing to give us a home

@Necrotica:
I feel your Pain my friend lol took me til this week to get a good weapon to drop for any of the specs

[Artorius]

Well, I was able to get 2 flex weapons on the first week of the patch... don't know if I was lucky but after some weeks of normals I have weapons for all the specs... Sadly we just started a new 25man core and couldn't get garrosh down yet...
Hope I still have this luck when progressing on heroic...

[Deleted]

Are we doomed to semi boredom til beta stuff starts coming out?

U mean that time of the year when u wake up just to read fuckton of some warrior/paladin/monk bullshit and once a month theres sth important like Deadly throw formula change (o wait, just bad datamining)? Cant wait.

[Deleted]

It is boring. It's that time of the expansion sadly. It doesn't seem like they're keen on any interesting class changes right now either considering the lack of events since 5.4 even hit.

I wouldn't say we're entirely content with everything though. As a tri-spec DD class I'd personally like our damage to be higher, and I mean useful damage (factoring out useless BF whoring) that is more commonly competitive in the top 3 classes. Being middle to near top of the pack at skillcap seems 'wrong' for a Rogue in a way. Heaven forbid that Smoke Bomb could be unspeakably removed next expansion and we aren't substituted for it significantly with DPS. Then you might see a bit more activity on forums; of the whining sort.

[Carp The Fish]

Rogues are both in a good spot AND boring. Let me explain a bit.

Good spot business:

- Combat is fun: We finally have enough Haste to make the spec similar to an Arms-specced warrior (almost a GCD rotation), and AoC is icing on the cake.
- Combat's use of the AoC trinket is a MASSIVE damage increase, and makes the spec that much more fast.

- Assassination is fun: Dispatch has been awesome since the xpac started, and the extra Haste we're naturally getting on gear is making Mastery-stacking fun again.
- Assassination is no longer a pain to gear: All 3 secondary stats are useful right now, so there's no piece of gear that isn't an upgrade for this spec.

- Subtlety feels powerful again: More fights that Subtlety is useful for, now that it's damage makes up for the fact that you can't always be behind the boss.

- All 3 of our specs have different fights that they shine on, which means rogues can actively be involved in the strategy and raid-comp decisions. This is significantly better than earlier in the expansion when the only thing we brought to raid was Blade Flurry and being able to soak ground effects at will.

- Smoke Bomb. What more needs to be said?

Boring business:

- Combat and Subtlety are both practically the same spec right now outside of their damage CDs: 1 regular CP builder, 1 gimmicky CP builder, Eviscerate and Rupture, keep up SND, and hit survivability stuff WHENEVER YOU WANT.

- Combat's 3 damage CDs (not including Vanish) are one of a few examples of spellbook clutter for our class.

- Subtlety's use of Stealth as a mechanic in PvE is still null.

- Assassination is the only spec with somewhat of a visible identity in a raid; this spec is "the poison spec", and everyone knows that rogues bring poisons.
- Combat and Subtlety have identities for RP fanatics and in theory, but no clear identity in practice. For example, melee are naturally supposed to be behind the boss, but when a fight forces you to hit the boss from the front, Subtlety's Backstab and Ambush requirements come off as arbitrary and pointless.

But to answer your question about "Are we doomed to semi-boredom until beta stuff starts coming out", yes. Entirely doomed.
We're in one of those few moments where rogues are in a well-balanced state. It's a well-deserved lull in activity, compared to how semi-broken our class was one year ago.

[Artorius]

For example, melee are naturally supposed to be behind the boss, but when a fight forces you to hit the boss from the front, Subtlety's Backstab and Ambush requirements come off as arbitrary and pointless.

They're going to address this issue with WoD. If they can by any means fix Sub AoE, it'll be a nice spec to play...

[Deleted]

If they can by any means fix Sub AoE, it'll be a nice spec to play...

Either Sub or Assa needs to be changed from a almost single target only spec to be something in between what it is now and the awesome AoE spec that Combat is. Sortof a 1spec-fits-all sort of thing. Right now Im using Combat for most fights and Sub for a few where I can be behind the boss the entire time. We need a spec we can actually use all thrugh the raid.

Even tho Im not the best player in the raid team, far from it, I play with some very very good guys, im still there for just about every progress fight due to our ability to take super low damage throughout the fight while still dashing out some nice numbers. THAT makes the class fun to me, being a useful utility to the raid. Im not essential either, so if I cant make a raid, the guys can still kill stuff, but having me there is a good thing. There is nothing we realy cant do, appart from ofc healing and tanking for longer than 10 seconds, but for all mechanics of every fight we can be great!

Id say that Id rather keep rogues as they are, than Blizz changing us to mutch so we become another "useless" dps class.

[Deleted]

I'd say that if you like the clock and dagger they are fun!

[Warstar]

Rogue's are pretty awesome. Our damage is really good and I love my rogue and we have lots of utility to use.

But, we don't have anything exciting right now. We don't have the ability to immune 99% of the fight mechanics like in ToT and pull off some pretty cool stuff. The things we can do seem more important on progression but any amount of gear makes it relatively easy to do with any class. Our damage is good but any fight we do great on there are other classes tickling our nuts on the dps meters chasing us the whole time. We aren't like warlocks and can pull off stupid insane numbers like they do to have those exciting moments of "OMG LOOK AT MY CRAZY DPS!". PvP I guess rogues are doing ok but they aren't like warriors who are dominating left and right and rogues are still struggling to be good.

From a theorycrafting side there's nothing fun out there atm. Everything is pretty much set in stone and rotations are pretty much done with for now. Thinking about the lv100 talents is 100% pointless since if any of them from any class make it through in their current state I'd be surprised.

Everything's just kinda bleh. The forums are boring as hell cause there's nothing new going on.

[Deleted]

Rogues are boring and outdated>!
Combat hasn't change in near 10 year~
Assasin yes there was so changes but from the 1st 10 second of an encounter and until is simply the same.
Proc for dispatch is 30% and was stable ~from the start aplly rupture~envenom muti~ re/do.
Subtely is close to combat~ only difference is Shadow Dance but likely is just backstab/replaces with ambush=same energy cost/QQ~.


Anyway if stupid boring simply because every rogue must have same reforge/gems/gameplay~in order to play at the lvl of a bot.

My ilvl is 577~ and playing assa i haven't see any difference from playing with 477 ilvl talking about rotation.(Haste boost on energy is ~1 energy per 4k haste~~ so it isn't changing at all the rotation. And combat same thing every year.
Our dmg is good but seeying others i think is mediocre~ especially with how demanding Subtely is~and what low are the result's.

[jtstormrage]

Only thing I don't like about Rogues at the moment is that Sub's damage is tied heavily to maintaining a debuff, which makes switching terrible. Also, positional requirements (but they are getting rid of those).

[mongoose6]

New trick i discovered that isn't really rogue specific or exiting in any way, but still a new trick. Skip the trash for blackfuse by getting a soulstone, jump off the edge to the left, rez and then pull blackfuse and vanish. You're whole raid can now skip the (still there but harmless) trash. How's that for balls to the wall exitement? eh? EH?

[Skarzog]

- Assassination is the only spec with somewhat of a visible identity in a raid; this spec is "the poison spec", and everyone knows that rogues bring poisons.

See I actually disagree with that. What makes Assassination the "poison" spec other than a large portion of its damage is poisons? Assassination is the "poison" spec yet it uses the exact same poisons as every other spec. It only has two additional abilities that even involve poison, one is venomous wounds which no one really even notices other than making sure to keep rupture up like every other spec. And the other is envenom which is eviscerate with a buff. Even then, envenom is not that interesting of a mechanic, the sad reality the difference between someone who envenoms perfectly and someone who say accidentally clips the buff once in a while is around 1-2%.

To make Assassination feel like the "Poison spec" they need to introduce more Assassination only poisons, both lethal and non-lethal, maybe have Assassination rogues run double poisons, and a least a short cool down poison ability.

[Warstar]

See I actually disagree with that. What makes Assassination the "poison" spec other than a large portion of its damage is poisons? Assassination is the "poison" spec yet it uses the exact same poisons as every other spec. It only has two additional abilities that even involve poison, one is venomous wounds which no one really even notices other than making sure to keep rupture up like every other spec. And the other is envenom which is eviscerate with a buff. Even then, envenom is not that interesting of a mechanic, the sad reality the difference between someone who envenoms perfectly and someone who say accidentally clips the buff once in a while is around 1-2%.

To make Assassination feel like the "Poison spec" they need to introduce more Assassination only poisons, both lethal and non-lethal, maybe have Assassination rogues run double poisons, and a least a short cool down poison ability.

Eh... Assassination is so a spec all about poisons. Combat & sub's poison damage is relatively week and a not too big part of their damage. Sure they both use deadly poison but there's nothing that highlights it like assassination does. Hell, assassination's mastery is increased poison damage. Sub has total shit aoe damage with FoK spam. Combat has pretty good cleave with blade flurry. Yet, assassination's aoe is a small part FoK with almost all of it coming from deadly poison. The main CP builder, Mutilate, even has apply poisons built into it. Envenom is poison damage instead of physical like sub/combat's eviscerate. And, assassination's main damage comes from deadly poison as well as venomous wounds which while they're all passive it's still the biggest chunk of their damage.

Really if you compare combat to assassination combat is all about physical damage with a small portion of poison damage compared to assassination being all about poison damage with just a small part being from physical damage.

So... assassination is the poison spec.

[mongoose6]

It also doesn't really matter if you feel that it's the "poison" specc. It's still the only specc that has an identity separate from the others. (I do however think that identifying it as the poison spec is a fair summation)