About the new Haster > Crit now...

[Kissthebaby]

Let's start over.

Troll BiS:

legs=legguards_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99403,stats=4429armor_2370agi_3795sta_1564haste_1632mastery,gems=80agi_160haste_80agi_160haste_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit,reforge=mastery_hitshoulders=spaulders_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99404,stats=3797armor_1720agi_2820sta_1349haste_872exp,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit
wrists=bracers_of_infinite_pipes,id=105617,stats=2249armor_1490agi_2236sta_969haste_1009mastery,enchant=180agi,reforge=mastery_hit
feet=ravagers_pathwalkers,id=105553,stats=3534armor_1907agi_2981sta_1195crit_1335haste,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=140agi,reforge=crit_mastery
chest=chestguard_of_relentless_tyranny,id=105637,stats=5141armor_2515agi_4013sta_1953haste_1275mastery,gems=160agi_160agi_80agi_160haste_180agi,enchant=80all
main_hand=death_lotus_crossbow,id=105429,stats=2595agi_4013sta_1317hit_1993haste,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scope_of_doom,weapon=crossbow_3speed_23455min_35184max
waist=arrowflight_girdle,id=105584,stats=2892armor_1827agi_2981sta_1147crit_1303haste,gems=160agi_80agi_160haste_160agi_120agi,reforge=crit_mastery
head=headguard_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99402,stats=4113armor_2290agi_3795sta_1592crit_1524haste,gems=capacitive_primal_160agi_180agi,reforge=crit_mastery
hands=gloves_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99406,stats=3164armor_1720agi_2820sta_1194crit_1127haste,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170haste,reforge=crit_mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180hit,reforge=crit_exp
finger2=kilruks_band_of_ascendancy,id=105624,stats=1410agi_2236sta_928haste_959mastery,gems=160agi_60crit
finger1=swift_serpent_signet,id=105483,stats=1410agi_2236sta_945exp_953mastery,gems=80agi_160haste_60crit,reforge=mastery_haste
trinket2=ticking_ebon_detonator,id=105612,upgrade=2,reforge=mastery_haste
neck=immerseus_crystalline_eye,id=105407,stats=1490agi_2236sta_994haste_994mastery
trinket1=assurance_of_consequence,id=105472,upgrade=2

Orc BiS:

legs=legguards_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99403,stats=4429armor_2370agi_3795sta_1564haste_1632mastery,gems=80agi_160haste_80agi_160haste_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit,reforge=mastery_exp
shoulders=spaulders_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99404,stats=3797armor_1720agi_2820sta_1349haste_872exp,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit
wrists=bracers_of_infinite_pipes,id=105617,stats=2249armor_1490agi_2236sta_969haste_1009mastery,enchant=180agi,reforge=mastery_hit
feet=ravagers_pathwalkers,id=105553,stats=3534armor_1907agi_2981sta_1195crit_1335haste,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=140agi,reforge=crit_mastery
chest=chestguard_of_relentless_tyranny,id=105637,stats=5141armor_2515agi_4013sta_1953haste_1275mastery,gems=160agi_160agi_80agi_160haste_180agi,enchant=80all
main_hand=death_lotus_crossbow,id=105429,stats=2595agi_4013sta_1317hit_1993haste,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=lord_blastingtons_scope_of_doom,reforge=hit_mastery,weapon=crossbow_3speed_23455min_35184max
waist=arrowflight_girdle,id=105584,stats=2892armor_1827agi_2981sta_1147crit_1303haste,gems=160agi_80agi_160haste_160agi_120agi,reforge=crit_exp
head=headguard_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99402,stats=4113armor_2290agi_3795sta_1592crit_1524haste,gems=capacitive_primal_160agi_180agi,reforge=crit_mastery
hands=gloves_of_the_unblinking_vigil,id=99406,stats=3164armor_1720agi_2820sta_1194crit_1127haste,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170haste,reforge=crit_mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180hit,reforge=crit_hit
finger2=kilruks_band_of_ascendancy,id=105624,stats=1410agi_2236sta_928haste_959mastery,gems=160agi_60crit,reforge=mastery_hit
finger1=swift_serpent_signet,id=105483,stats=1410agi_2236sta_945exp_953mastery,gems=80agi_160haste_60crit,reforge=exp_haste
trinket2=ticking_ebon_detonator,id=105612,upgrade=2,reforge=mastery_haste
neck=immerseus_crystalline_eye,id=105407,stats=1490agi_2236sta_994haste_994mastery,reforge=mastery_hit
trinket1=assurance_of_consequence,id=105472,upgrade=2

Or easier:

BiS items:

Weapon: Protectors XBow (Haste-Hit)
Head: Tier (Crit-Haste)
Neck: Immerseus trink (Haste-Mast)
Shoulders: Tier (Haste-Exp)
Gloves: Tier (Crit-Haste)
Cloak: Legendary
Chest: Garrosh off-piece (Chestguard of Relentless Tyranny) (Haste-Mast)
Belt: Spoils belt (Crit-Haste)
Legs: Tier (Haste-Mast)
Boots: Nazgrim boots (Crit-Haste)
Ring1: Paragons ring (Haste-Mast)
Ring2: Galakras ring (Exp-Mast)
Trinket1: CDR Trinket
Trinket2: TED

The items are the same for both races, but I thought I would be a niceguy and let people import both gearsets into SimCraft to test them out as their respective race.

For troll, the gear setup ends up with being:

18.4 haste
9.9k mastery
4.4k crit

For orc, it's:

18.4k haste
9.6k mastery
4.4k crit

Stat weights used:

https://imgur.com/e8bBi0U

As for Malk ring vs Galakras ring:

Going for Malk ring over Galakras ring, you lose:

671 mastery
138 haste

And gain:

602 crit
80 Agility

Sounds like a secure win for Malk, but if we do the math:

1 Mastery is worth 0.44
1 Haste is worth 0.45
1 Agility is worth 1
1 Crit is worth 0.42


Malk ring loses:

671*0.44 Mastery = 295.24 points
and
138*0.45 Haste = 62.1 points
=
357.34

But gains:

80*1 Agility = 80 points
602*0.42 Crit = 252.84 points
=
332.84

Even if we increase Crit's value to 0.45 to match Haste, it would still be 7~ points behind.

You left out bracers but I think you said galakras (hit haste) over siege crafter (haste mastery). Good thing I just got the hwf galakras ones this week. I'm halfway there!

[Deleted]

You left out bracers but I think you said galakras (hit haste) over siege crafter (haste mastery). Good thing I just got the hwf galakras ones this week. I'm halfway there!

Ye don't read too much into that, doing it again just now (because I lost the results I had), Galakras bracers didn't beat out Blackfuse bracers in any case. The difference is teenytiny anyway (immeasurable in a simulator unless we're talking 100k+ iterations).

But ye I was tired this morning. Add Blackfuse bracers to that list.

[Kissthebaby]

Ye don't read too much into that, doing it again just now (because I lost the results I had), Galakras bracers didn't beat out Blackfuse bracers in any case. The difference is teenytiny anyway (immeasurable in a simulator unless we're talking 100k+ iterations).

But ye I was tired this morning. Add Blackfuse bracers to that list.

Man I thought I actually had a piece . Looks like it's survival forever

[Arhippa]

Nobody ever said it wasn't fine, but on the same note, Barrage is "fine" for single-target, too.

And I said it's more than fine.

[Deleted]

Man I thought I actually had a piece . Looks like it's survival forever

Nuhuh pls don't Galakras bracers are totally BM BiS come play BM dude.

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And I said it's more than fine.

Which doesn't say much at all in favour of SV. >_>

[Kissthebaby]

Nuhuh pls don't Galakras bracers are totally BM BiS come play BM dude.

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Which doesn't say much at all in favour of SV. >_>

I'll switch back over soon I'm liking survival , just got a nice juggernaut parse. Think it's a rank 2 and we had a buyer and I only had 25 percent trinket uptime which is good but not godly. Also why the name change / new account

[Deleted]

I'll switch back over soon I'm liking survival , just got a nice juggernaut parse. Think it's a rank 2 and we had a buyer and I only had 25 percent trinket uptime which is good but not godly. Also why the name change / new account

I wanted a clean slate - renamed my old account to Metaphoric so I could make a new account with the name "Azortharion", but it wouldn't let me. Sent them an email to get my name back.

EDIT: Fuck clean slate I'm going back. Damn you MMO-C.

[Acynnie]

Wow is the debate between surv and bm on siegecrafter belt pointless. Both side agrees that BM is better overall and all you guys are doing is debating whether HOW much better it is. Both are viable at this point of the tier, just play what you're comfortable with.

[Kissthebaby]

I wanted a clean slate - renamed my old account to Metaphoric so I could make a new account with the name "Azortharion", but it wouldn't let me. Sent them an email to get my name back.

Make sense. Also welcome to the superior race. Saw you went troll

[Azortharion]

Make sense. Also welcome to the superior race. Saw you went troll

Troll -and- Herbalism.

Thankye.

[Kissthebaby]

Both are viable at this point of the tier, just play what you're comfortable with.

This has been said many time. People just like to bring up old arguments to prove someone wrong

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Herbalism.

.

Go pure haste gems

[Azortharion]

Go pure haste gems

Herbalism is a measurable DPS increase for BM, actually. Lines up with Dextrous pretty decently and gives you 2.9k haste for Stampede which is a haste breakpoint or two.

[Kissthebaby]

Herbalism is a measurable DPS increase for BM, actually. Lines up with Dextrous pretty decently and gives you 2.9k haste for Stampede which is a haste breakpoint or two.

I was thinking about it. Makes sense. Doesn't really matter much anymore since they r gutting professions. So now is the time to switch

[Azortharion]

I was thinking about it. Makes sense. Doesn't really matter much anymore since they r gutting professions. So now is the time to switch

It was actually a bigger increase than going Orc to Troll but I'm not sure if I buy that. 2880 haste for 20s versus 20% haste for 10 seconds from Berserking..

Might be because Berserking is saved for Stampede and Lifeblood lines up with your first non-pull Dextrous.

[mercychan]

@ mercylolk. do you still think dire beast is the best for single target (survival) like you argued with me or have you changed your mind on that.

uhh what? You're probably thinking of someone else. I've used thrill as SV as single and cleave ever since I picked up the 4 pc. Went through all of my posts couldn't find anything related to what youre referring to

Wow is the debate between surv and bm on siegecrafter belt pointless. . . all you guys are doing is debating whether HOW much better it is.

Sure, damage in the end might come pretty close (or honestly, not really, a good BM hunter on the belts will pretty much destroy a good SV hunter on the belts constantly),

^Was what I was arguing against

[Kissthebaby]

It was actually a bigger increase than going Orc to Troll but I'm not sure if I buy that. 2880 haste for 20s versus 20% haste for 10 seconds from Berserking..

Might be because Berserking is saved for Stampede and Lifeblood lines up with your first non-pull Dextrous.

How big of a difference was it going troll. And do you think troll will even be viable next expat because they r taking out the 1 percent expertise. I know we don't know how stats will be but I see troll being good still . F typing on iphones

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uhh what? You're probably thinking of someone else. I've used thrill as SV as single and cleave ever since I picked up the 4 pc. Went through all of my posts couldn't find anything related to what youre referring to

It was on your stream you were doing juggernaut U guys had wiped a bunch. I said use thrill over dire beast and you said sim craft says otherwise. This was like a month ago maybe

[mercychan]

I was probably trying DB out? Grats on putting words in my mouth, I haven't even started using simcraft since like 3 weeks ago

[Azortharion]

How big of a difference was it going troll. And do you think troll will even be viable next expat because they r taking out the 1 percent expertise. I know we don't know how stats will be but I see troll being good still . F typing on iphones

I try not to speculate WoD stuff too much because the info so far is very limited - the difference of going troll was roughly 2k simDPS (modifying the berserking line to only be used with stampede up), herbalism was 3k. The thing with troll/orc atm is that the 1% expertise you gain as troll can easily be made into Mastery and make up for 50% of the loss of going Troll in the first place (Blood Fury and Berserking are about equally strong on a stat-basis).

I think the difference will be negligible but I'll ofc be going for whatever is best when I can test it properly. ^^

[Kissthebaby]

I was probably trying DB out? Grats on putting words in my mouth, I haven't even started using simcraft since like 3 weeks ago

Nope you weren't trying it out. You tried to argue how dire beast is still the best for single target I disagreed and you used sim craft as your argument. You can act like you don't remember idc. It's kinda funny though. Think about it. Think about my name you will remember. Also I have nothing to gain by so called putting words in your mouth and don't you think this is a very specific thing, why would I make it up.

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I try not to speculate WoD stuff too much because the info so far is very limited - the difference of going troll was roughly 2k simDPS (modifying the berserking line to only be used with stampede up), herbalism was 3k. The thing with troll/orc atm is that the 1% expertise you gain as troll can easily be made into Mastery and make up for 50% of the loss of going Troll in the first place (Blood Fury and Berserking are about equally strong on a stat-basis).

I think the difference will be negligible but I'll ofc be going for whatever is best when I can test it properly. ^^

You gotta speculate wod stuff, game is so boring right now. Farm is one night a week and half the people dread it which makes the raid kinda suck anyway

[Deleted]

Nope you weren't trying it out. You tried to argue how dire beast is still the best for single target I disagreed and you used sim craft as your argument. You can act like you don't remember idc. It's kinda funny though. Think about it. Think about my name you will remember. Also I have nothing to gain by so called putting words in your mouth and don't you think this is a very specific thing, why would I make it up.

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You gotta speculate wod stuff, game is so boring right now. Farm is one night a week and half the people dread it which makes the raid kinda suck anyway

I'm doing 3 SoO runs a week atm. Lets see how long till I burn out.